Vikings Message Board.Com

allday1991 wrote:This is the qb last year whos play calling card didn't even block 1/4 of musgraves face ...

Eli wrote:

You never noticed last year when the O.C called the plays while holding the playing calling card in front of his face to block the camera, I heard commentator after commentator mention how small it was. It literally didn't cover 1/4 of musgraves face when he held it up, most play callers have a normal size piece of paper.

Yeah his play sheet was pretty small. I just pretend Musgrave uses a much smaller font than other coaches so he doesn't need the big sheet lol.

Reignman wrote:Yeah his play sheet was pretty small. I just pretend Musgrave uses a much smaller font than other coaches so he doesn't need the big sheet lol.

I'm posting from a mobile and it's difficult to delete the text required to get under the 3 quote rule. So, i'm responding to your response here instead.

The things that Ponder ranked high in the last four games was 3rd down efficiency and red zone..... IF I remember correctly. The point being that Ponder hasn't been all bad as some of the irrational tonesters here like to suggest. He's had one full camp and one full season.....plus the joke of his rookie year.

Do I think he's the second coming of Joe Montana? I have no frigging idea.....the whole team was such an abhorrent mess, save for 5 or 6, guys as little as two seasons ago that's it's been completely irrational to put success or failure on the shoulders of Ponder.

Now after two pass attempts in preseason game 1 of his third season and following his team making the playoffs, a game in which they got handled because Ponder didn't play, he's a bonafide bum? And as bad as Cassel has been as a week one starter, you want him even to be considered as starter for the Vikes?
He is a BACKUP.....this is Ponder's year. If he doesn't continue to improve with all the new weapons around him I would like to see them draft another guy. But anyone who says they know for certain how Ponder will do this year is full of crap....including him.

obvious troll is obvious

The Breeze wrote: I'm posting from a mobile and it's difficult to delete the text required to get under the 3 quote rule. So, i'm responding to your response here instead.

The things that Ponder ranked high in the last four games was 3rd down efficiency and red zone..... IF I remember correctly. The point being that Ponder hasn't been all bad as some of the irrational tonesters here like to suggest. He's had one full camp and one full season.....plus the joke of his rookie year.

Do I think he's the second coming of Joe Montana? I have no frigging idea.....the whole team was such an abhorrent mess, save for 5 or 6, guys as little as two seasons ago that's it's been completely irrational to put success or failure on the shoulders of Ponder.

Now after two pass attempts in preseason game 1 of his third season and following his team making the playoffs, a game in which they got handled because Ponder didn't play, he's a bonafide bum? And as bad as Cassel has been as a week one starter, you want him even to be considered as starter for the Vikes?
He is a BACKUP.....this is Ponder's year. If he doesn't continue to improve with all the new weapons around him I would like to see them draft another guy. But anyone who says they know for certain how Ponder will do this year is full of crap....including him.

obvious troll is obvious

I am not sure if this is directed at me lol. if it is I assure you I am not trying to troll, I just wanted to know given the situation ( ponder sucks all pre season and cassel lights it up, I know its a huge IF lol) would Cassel ever get the start maybe not week one but eventually this year.

Reignman wrote:Yeah coddled, he was handed the starting job without ever having to compete for it.

As opposed to most first round QBs, who are never just handed jobs, right? Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, RG3, Andrew Luck... apparently they're all "coddled" QBs who were handed starting jobs without ever having to compete for them.

Yes based on only 2 snaps. It has nothing at all to do with the previous 26 starts I remember or how I think we're wasting AD's golden years developing a special needs QB. But if we rewind the tape, I wasn't complaining about Ponder, I was complaining about Frazier having Ponder out there for only 2 plays.

.. and that quickly turned into complaining about Ponder.

You're right and lets stop pretending the lack of training camp in his rookie year is still affecting him in year 3. And I apologize if you're not in that camp it's just a common excuse I hear from Ponder supporters lol. But why even play 1 series? Might as well treat the 1st game like the 4th.

The latter is a fair point and I'm not sure why coaches think one series is better than none in that circumstance but a lot of of them seem to approach it that way. Either way, I don't think it's important and I'm a little boggled that people seem to be worked up about it.

My feeling regarding the absence of a normal offseason for Ponder in his rookie season and the impact of not receiving training camp preparation to be the starter that year is that it set him behind, it effected the timeline of his development. That seems fair to me. A player who has the benefit of those things in his rookie season probably has an advantage over a player who doesn't...

No, that's the problem, I believe Ponder IS doing the best he can and unfortunately for us it's been mostly crap.

Well, maybe if you wait and see how he actually performs this year, you'll be pleasantly surprised. Meanwhile, if you believe he's already doing the best he can, then creating a QB competition for the sake of pushing him isn't going to make a difference in his performance, is it?

He rode the coat tails of PH and AD last year and he got way more credit than he deserves. We would have went 10-6 with any bottom feeder QB last year.

It sounds to me like you're just unwilling to give credit where it's due. Ponder's performance was instrumental in some of those wins last season, including upsets over playoff teams like GB and SF. he was instrumental in losing some games too but any appraisal of his performance that doesn't take both the good and the bad into account is patently unfair.

allday1991 wrote:I completely agree with you which is why I was so surprised he played one drive. This is the qb last year whos play calling card didn't even block 1/4 of musgraves face...

You have got be kidding me...

Not to mention the two biggest stars on a WR core are new to our team ( Jennings and Patterson) and could use the extra game time to gel.

Ponder is throwing to them every day in practice. A series or two less in a preseason game won't make or break those combinations.

allday1991 wrote: I am not sure if this is directed at me lol. if it is I assure you I am not trying to troll, I just wanted to know given the situation ( ponder sucks all pre season and cassel lights it up, I know its a huge IF lol) would Cassel ever get the start maybe not week one but eventually this year.

No, I was responding to Reignman.

Sure it's possible Cassel could wind up starting....but it would be because Ponder got hurt or did horribly bad. Neither of which are out comes I'd like to see. Not because I adore Ponder or dislike Cassel. But because the FO is pot committed to CP. Cassel is not the future if Ponder fails IMO....if that happens we are drafting a new guy.

From what i've learned: week 1 preseason is the real starting point for players on the bubble to prove their worth and for coaches to have some solid evidence to assist in paring down the roster. That's why the starters get yanked after a series or two...depending on the coaches, their systems and what positions they have the most concern about.

What people need to accept is that in the eyes of the Vikings coaching staff and FO there is no question at QB that will be answered in the preseason.....none.

Mothman wrote: You have got be kidding me...
Ponder is throwing to them every day in practice. A series or two less in a preseason game won't make or break those combinations.

Ok, I agree maybe a 'troll' way to put it, but seriously am I the only one who thought it was small? even the commentators mentioned it?


True, but a pre-season game would better emulate a real season game better than practice, no?

allday1991 wrote:Ok, I agree maybe a 'troll' way to put it, but seriously am I the only one who thought it was small? even the commentators mentioned it?

I didn't notice but even if it was small, that doesn't mean it was simple. We don't know what information was on it or how Musgrave has it organized. Maybe he just put it together in a way that makes it less cumbersome. There are a lot of ways to organize information!

Sometimes... but again, we're talking about a series or two, which isn't very significant in the bigger picture of developing chemistry between QB and WRs.

The Breeze wrote:The things that Ponder ranked high in the last four games was 3rd down efficiency and red zone..... IF I remember correctly. The point being that Ponder hasn't been all bad as some of the irrational tonesters here like to suggest. He's had one full camp and one full season.....plus the joke of his rookie year.

I'll have to look that up when I get time, but whoa, those are some pretty important categories to lead for a 4 game stretch in which your RB is setting records. Did you see the chart I posted a couple months ago about how Ponder was the 33rd ranked QB when it came to deep passes last season? He had like a 33.6 rating or something. The 32nd ranked guy was in the 60's. But yeah he ranked near the bottom in most statistical categories for the entire season, but he ranked 1st in sub 100 yard games. Did you know he was almost the first QB in NFL history to have a lower average per pass attempt than his RB had per rush attempt? I'm sure my concern is just irrational though xD. He's had his moments, but don't deny he's been absolutely dreadful in a lot of games.

Mothman wrote: As opposed to most first round QBs, who are never just handed jobs, right? Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, RG3, Andrew Luck... apparently they're all "coddled" QBs who were handed starting jobs without ever having to compete for them.

Haha, that's comical. The difference is all those QB's you've listed have actually shown signs of having that "it" factor. And not a sub 100 from any of them combined. Plus combined they've broken a lot of rookie passing records. But hey our guy had 1 TD in a 3 game stretch at the end of the season and some have convinced themselves it was an improvement.

Mothman wrote:.. and that quickly turned into complaining about Ponder.

Well come on, it's so easy xD.

Mothman wrote:Either way, I don't think it's important and I'm a little boggled that people seem to be worked up about it.

See on one hand you talk about how important training camp is, but then basically go on to say preseason is meaningless. What better environment to work on chemistry with new teammates and timing than actual games vs real opponents?

Mothman wrote:Well, maybe if you wait and see how he actually performs this year, you'll be pleasantly surprised. Meanwhile, if you believe he's already doing the best he can, then creating a QB competition for the sake of pushing him isn't going to make a difference in his performance, is it?

And what if he doesn't? What if it's another mediocre season? I don't want a QB competition to push him, I want a QB competition so we can get the best guy possible taking the snaps. I don't want to see Cassel out shine Ponder in the preseason then see Ponder getting the nod week 1.

Mothman wrote:It sounds to me like you're just unwilling to give credit where it's due. Ponder's performance was instrumental in some of those wins last season, including upsets over playoff teams like GB and SF. he was instrumental in losing some games too but any appraisal of his performance that doesn't take both the good and the bad into account is patently unfair.

I acknowledge he had his moments. After the niners game I thought he could be the answer, but then he went through a period of consistent suckage I've never seen before. So yeah, lets be honest and fair, we saw far more bad than good, and overall he held this team back last year. We're a 12-4 caliber team with a 6-10 caliber QB. Maybe he'll improve, but I don't see this guy leading a team to a championship and that's all I care about. Some of you are probably content with competing for the 6th seed, or a wildcard spot, and another 1 and done.

Nope....didn't see your chart. Don't really get into the whole Ponder argument that much....

I like the direction the FO is going, so I'm all good supporting their decisions for now, which means playing it by ear and seeing how it unfolds this year at QB.

And I'm definitely a team oriented guy.....not a clinger-to of any individual's bean bag, regardless of how many records they do or don't break.

The Breeze wrote: I'm posting from a mobile and it's difficult to delete the text required to get under the 3 quote rule. So, i'm responding to your response here instead.

The things that Ponder ranked high in the last four games was 3rd down efficiency and red zone..... IF I remember correctly. The point being that Ponder hasn't been all bad as some of the irrational tonesters here like to suggest. He's had one full camp and one full season.....plus the joke of his rookie year.

Do I think he's the second coming of Joe Montana? I have no frigging idea.....the whole team was such an abhorrent mess, save for 5 or 6, guys as little as two seasons ago that's it's been completely irrational to put success or failure on the shoulders of Ponder.

Now after two pass attempts in preseason game 1 of his third season and following his team making the playoffs, a game in which they got handled because Ponder didn't play, he's a bonafide bum? And as bad as Cassel has been as a week one starter, you want him even to be considered as starter for the Vikes?
He is a BACKUP.....this is Ponder's year. If he doesn't continue to improve with all the new weapons around him I would like to see them draft another guy. But anyone who says they know for certain how Ponder will do this year is full of crap....including him.

obvious troll is obvious

Yes it is.

Mothman wrote: You have got be kidding me...
Ponder is throwing to them every day in practice. A series or two less in a preseason game won't make or break those combinations.

So why do we play pre season? We have them to get teams ready to play other teams to begin the NFL season. Its a practice with real hits. Real reads. Not just teammates you know from playing against everyday. But you are right in one regard. If they are just going to baby Ponder, and try and limit his mistakes so he doesn't go on a rampage of making tons of them in a row (due entirely to his missing his first year of OTA's), then ya, he shouldn't even suit up. Just come out swinging against Detroit....er handing off to AD.