"The Next Step" for Christian Ponder

[J. Kapp 11]

Exactly it was a quick slant, aka timing route. Ponder take the snap, stands up, and delivers the throw. It hit Simpson in the hands. He didn't bring it in. Ponder isn't even making a read on that throw, it is all timing.

The throw was high.

Go back and look. High is the one place you can't put the quick slant. It's easy to say Simpson should have caught it, but the throw was high and hard.

[mondry]

Go back and look. High is the one place you can't put the quick slant. It's easy to say Simpson should have caught it, but the throw was high and hard.

And simpson should have caught it.

[Reignman]

May not have been one. I don't remember the personnel on that play, but usually it's a presnap read that dictates where the ball is going. Quick dropstep and release. It's not meant to have another option because of how quick they're trying to jump ahead of the D.

I concede, Ponder is awesome lol. No really, if I believed Ponder was actually making presnap reads my next question would be, why are we allowing Ponder to make presnap reads? He's clearly not very good at that either. Haha I half kid. I don't know what else to do other than to poke fun at this point. What else can you do after watching a game like that?

[PacificNorseWest]

I concede, Ponder is awesome lol. No really, if I believed Ponder was actually making presnap reads my next question would be, why are we allowing Ponder to make presnap reads? He's clearly not very good at that either. Haha I half kid. I don't know what else to do other than to poke fun at this point. What else can you do after watching a game like that?

Well...I know there's a joke that can be made after I say this, but every single quarterback in the NFL, no matter experience level, have plays where there are presnap reads.

In reality it is the easiest play to perform because it takes all the work out of it. And the way I can put it into layman's terms is for those who play Madden to take a look at the singleback formation, two wide slant plays. A slant on each side, with outs from the TE. Film study prepares for what defense you think (should know) they're in and you pick the side where you either think you have an advantage or where you feel comfortable. Bang bang. No thoughts after the ball is snapped.

[The Breeze]

To be honest, I no longer even care what the issue is regarding Ponder because I'm tired of talking about all of it. I need a break from the irrational, unreasonable posts that have gradually started to dominate this board and drown out the reasonable voices that used to be the majority. The Vikings could cut Ponder tomorrow and it wouldn't bother me if they had a replacement that made sense. I'd feel bad for the guy but really, he's not even the issue for me anymore. It's the way this board is barreling straight toward the same fate as the old Vikings newsgroup. It was created as a haven from the kind of nonsense that ruined that place. Now it's mired in it.

Someone had to say it....but it's the truth.

Thing same happened during the end of the Tice era. I had to leave this place...


People make way too much out of something if they apparently have better things to waste their time on.

Seems a bit of a contradiction. I don't feel my time is wasted watching football at all, win or lose I had a blast today....but I do get the feeling that talking to most people, online, about football is a waste of time. No accountability, self entitled douchebaggery reigns supreme.

[The Breeze]

I was thinking of lots of things to say, but maybe the best advice is to ignore the thread if you don't like it.

In re-reading the board rules, "venting", essentially what everyone does after a loss or a bad QB showing (Ponder, Tjack, Culpepper, etc) is completely allowed. Is there something I'm not seeing in the rules that make what this thread has become impermissible?

And as always, we all must remember...

That's not what he's saying John.

[PacificNorseWest]

To be honest, since I started posting here on the regular, I've started to see similarities to fair weather fans of Seattle. I know most people here would HATE being that, but from where I sit, I see it coming on full force. Embarrassing.

[BGM]

I'm with Jim. This message board, and the newsgroup before the trolls rolled in, was well-known for its camaraderie and insightful, knowledgeable posters. The last couple seasons have seen some very divisive fracturing. Maybe it's just the way of the internet, or it's a reflection of contentious times in the real world. Whatever it is, it has made me post far less than I used to, because everything seems like a life or death struggle to be right instead of insightful. Maybe I am just missing some of the really fun and interesting posters of the past who have left the group for one reason or the other (Mike, Minniman, Dr. Zaius and others) and miss their analysis. Fortunately there are a number of regular posters here who are keeping alive the tradition. But there are others who seem to be heck-bent on using this as a place to gloom and doom or fight tooth and nail about everything wrong (kind of like what I am doing now - the irony is not lost on me) with the Vikings. As if the be all end all is to "win" the argument. This place definitely works for venting and criticism, but it seems that there is no middle ground. I can't speak for Jim, but to me there seems to be growing intolerance for opposing opinions. Plus, there are a wealth of polarizing opinions thrown around with little regard for facts or analysis.

My frustration may mostly in reaction to a disappointing first game of the season, but it is something that had been keeping me away more often than not.

Let me be clear that this is not aimed at any specific posters here. This is just a general summation about why this has become a less fun place to be - and I cannot stress this enough - IN MY OPINION.

[CalVike]

I am with Jim and Brian on this one. I'm not sure the anonymity of the Board breeds a collaborative, friendly banter among fans who share a common passion for our team anymore. I'm convinced that underneath it all that feeling is there, but it's hard to see sometimes. It appears some feel Ponder was garbage from Day 1 and have no interest in discussing his progress rationally or objectively. That may prove the correct opinion in the long haul but it leaves no room to have an intelligent & fun discussion week to week. And it turns me off. Also the constant harping on OC, HC calmness, and GM inadequacy. All these people work their butt off to make the Vikings better and I think disparaging them incessantly is wrong, especially when the team was successful last year. This is all just my opinion of course and opinions slamming players & coaches & front office are of course allowed, provided individual posters are not targeted. Like Brian, I definitely find myself posting less. Skol Vikes!

[Raptorman]

Well let's look at Ponder this week. Now, I will admit that I did not see the game so this is based on what I could gleam from the threads, the highlights, and the stats. People have been complaining about him not throwing downfield. So this week he threw downfield. 4 passes greater than 20 yards an 2 greater than 40. I understand the two long ones could have been a bit deeper. He did completer 64% of his passes, but, he had 3 interceptions. Now, was this just a bad day? Don't know. All QB's have bad days. Ponder seems to have more, at least that is what it looks like.

So, let's look at the positives. More downfield passing. Higher completion percentage, higher yard per attempt, 8.4.

And the negatives. Turnovers. The interceptions killed them. Staring down the WR's will get you every time. Deflected pass......could it have been lower and better thrown.....most likely.

Looks like we got the bad Ponder today. Maybe next week he can do 3 TD's and 0 INT's with the other numbers staying up.

One can hope.

[Raptorman]

I am with Jim and Brian on this one. I'm not sure the anonymity of the Board breeds a collaborative, friendly banter among fans who share a common passion for our team anymore. I'm convinced that underneath it all that feeling is there, but it's hard to see sometimes. It appears some feel Ponder was garbage from Day 1 and have no interest in discussing his progress rationally or objectively. That may prove the correct opinion in the long haul but it leaves no room to have an intelligent & fun discussion week to week. And it turns me off. Also the constant harping on OC, HC calmness, and GM inadequacy. All these people work their butt off to make the Vikings better and I think disparaging them incessantly is wrong, especially when the team was successful last year. This is all just my opinion of course and opinions slamming players & coaches & front office are of course allowed, provided individual posters are not targeted. Like Brian, I definitely find myself posting less. Skol Vikes!

At times when the Vikings are losing, I end up spending more time at Packer forums. At least there I expect the posters to be negative against the Vikings. People have a lot invested in the team emotionally. And for some of us who have been around for a long time it gets old fast. There is nothing like watching your team go down the toilet and you can't do anything but watch. I am trying to stay positive. But the game is not about one man. Aaron Rodgers threw 3 TD's and 1 INT today and the Packers still loss. It's a team game. Anytime a team can put up 34 points on your team, you have a good chance of losing.

[VikingLord]

To be honest, I no longer even care what the issue is regarding Ponder because I'm tired of talking about all of it. I need a break from the irrational, unreasonable posts that have gradually started to dominate this board and drown out the reasonable voices that used to be the majority. The Vikings could cut Ponder tomorrow and it wouldn't bother me if they had a replacement that made sense. I'd feel bad for the guy but really, he's not even the issue for me anymore. It's the way this board is barreling straight toward the same fate as the old Vikings newsgroup. It was created as a haven from the kind of nonsense that ruined that place. Now it's mired in it.

You really think this board is becoming what the Usenet board became?

I've seen a few exchanges that were questionable, and quite frankly it didn't surprise as it's generally not hard to distinguish reasonable voices from unreasonable ones, but I don't think this place is even close to what alt.sports.mnvikings became at the end. Maybe at the beginning of the end, but not the end of the end.

Still, there are lessons to be learned from how that place evolved, and hopefully the nature of the controls here will be able to tamp down any flames that would otherwise result in a similar implosion.

I agree with you about Ponder BTW. He wasn't all bad, and I even said as much in the gameday thread. His first deep throw to Simpson was exactly what I had been wanting to see from him, and it was well-done. He made some decent throws and reads, and certainly the loss was not all on him by any stretch of the imagination.

With that said, I also noted that he tends to offset those good plays with ones that just make you want to run outside and find a bus to jump under. I do not think Ponder is going to make it through this season even if he just plays average. He's past the point where fans are going to give him any quarter. Every mistake is going to be magnified, and that's just the way it is. It's the result of a slow, but steady, diet of moments of gross incompetence. A few bites don't necessarily cause more than mild indigestion, but after one too many, nasty problems result. Ponder's play has reached that point for I think the majority of us now, and we just don't want to take any more bites. It would take a series of games where Ponder is making the right decisions the VAST majority of the time to even begin to tamp down the acid reflux. And for those who have more tolerance or objectivity, I'm sure the experience of that is going to seem unruly. But there is no way past it unless Ponder either starts playing better or Frazier sits his behind down for good. And then it begins for the next guy up...

[The Breeze]

Cmon you guys....it's not really about negative or positive regarding the team or any one player. It's the trolling and baiting in any and every thread regardelss of topic and the dismissive-rude tone given to those who express their lack of appreciation for that kind of crap.

[BGM]

Anytime a team can put up 34 points on your team, you have a good chance of losing.

This.

[Raptorman]

You really think this board is becoming what the Usenet board became?

I've seen a few exchanges that were questionable, and quite frankly it didn't surprise as it's generally not hard to distinguish reasonable voices from unreasonable ones, but I don't think this place is even close to what alt.sports.mnvikings became at the end. Maybe at the beginning of the end, but not the end of the end.

..

More than anything, I think it's the frustration of the team losing more than anything. And the fact that the Vikings somehow have not been able to come up with a "good" QB to lead the team. The question is, Had Ponder thrown 3 tds and 1 int and they still lost, would people be down him? More than likely at this point they would say it is a fluke game. People are looking for consistency in the QB position. Until that happens, people will be on the edge.