Vikings Message Board.Com

mrc44 wrote:Losperros, what WR would you like them to pick , and at what pick? (#23, #25, #52)

I am personally all in on either Hopkins at #25

I would actually like the Vikings to draft for the D in the first round, preferably MLB and CB. But I have no problem with them taking a WR in R1, should that happen.

Regarding Keenan Allen, there are things that he does well, but I don't want the Vikings to draft him in R1. And if they take him in R2, then I don't want them to move up to do it. My apologies to my friend Jim but I just don't have the confidence in Allen that others do.

Going strictly by the WRs that I've seen play football (and not just highlight reels), I'm impressed with DeAndre Hopkins, Robert Woods, Cordarrelle Patterson, Justin Hunter (the big catches more than compensate for the drops), and a kid from Oregon State named Markus Wheaton. However, I'm most impressed with Terrance Williams from Baylor, who I think has played great football the last two seasons.

mondry wrote:What is everyone's thoughts on Justin Hunter? His highlight video looks pretty good and his production was pretty decent. He did tear his ACL in 2011 so maybe the injury concerns are there? To me though this guy seems like a total steal in the 2nd round. He's the best WR on his team and yet rated much lower than "that other guy."

Patterson 46 receptions, 778 yards, 5 TD's

Hunter 73 receptions, 1083, 9 TD's.

Seriously though on Patterson... one year with 778 yards and people are drooling over this guy! He was the 88th most productive college WR...

I wonder if he's being forgotten about with all the Patterson hype. The drops are big concern though.

I've seen a lot of Patterson and Hunter playing football in full games, and I must admit that I like them both. Who knows? Maybe they'll be busts. But I've seen both make astonishing circus catches on passes that oftentimes weren't thrown all that accurately. Both can stretch the field, jump, and make big plays on the ball.

Hunter got hurt in 2011 and his recovery period lasted into the 2012 season. Still, he played well, though there were his drops, which weren't there in 2011. I think he'd be a good pick for the Vikings in R2 but definitely not in R1.

Patterson deserves the acclaim he's receiving for the most part, mainly because he was dropped into a tough situation and came through. What impresses people is Patterson's learning curve. He was basically thrust into a trial by fire season. He and Hunter often carried the Tennessee team, making plays against SEC defenses, which are some of the best in the nation. Patterson's potential and physical skills are off the charts but he is going to need seasoning. I seriously doubt he'll turn it on big time as a rookie. OTOH, I think he will eventually become an impact WR in the NFL. Still, I personally do not consider him to be a R1 pick. Maybe late in R1 but certainly not a top 10 pick, despite what some of the draft gurus are saying. Just my two cents.

losperros wrote:What, maybe I was dreaming when I watched him play for Cal?

Well, it's always possible you were "dreaming" because you watched some of the games after eating your special beef peyote sandwiches.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, Jim. For whatever reason, I'm just not getting what Keenan Allen brings to the game that some of the other WRs don't do just as well and in some cases a lot better. Maybe I'm just missing it but the highlight reels aren't cutting it for me or making me believe I was wrong about Allen before any of this draft business ever began.

Not a problem, Craig... I don't feel like you're giving me a hard time and I'll freely admit that highlight reels, even when they show every play a receiver made in a game, don't adequately convey the overall flow of a game.

John_Viveiros wrote:An interesting statistical analysis on the importance of speed to a wide receiver:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1599 ... dash-times

Regarding 40 time vs. Pro Football Reference Approximate Value for WR's I had always known that 40 times were a bit suspect as career predictors, but to have essentially no correlation to success (as long as the athlete was productive enough to be invited to the combine) was a bit of a surprise.

Thanks for the link. I can't say I'm all that surprised but it's interesting info!

Mothman wrote: Well, it's always possible you were "dreaming" because you watched some of the games after eating your special beef peyote sandwiches.

Ahem...all this from someone who owns a dozen "Childress All In" hoodies....

Mothman wrote: Thanks for the link. I can't say I'm all that surprised but it's interesting info!

I'm not surprised either. I admit that I love speed and track events, and I used to run track myself during my school days. That said, one would almost have to line up all the WRs against each other in a foot race (with pads on during a game with defenders chasing them) to see who is really the fastest on a football field. Speed is really important in the NFL for all player positions in one way or another, but that includes quick reads of plays, fast reaction time, picking proper lanes and angles, and sustained speed as well as quick acceleration and short bursts. And the players are competing with each other rather than against a stopwatch.

Case in point: WR DeAndre Hopkins. Here's a guy who is a long strider (very important!) with excellent sustained speed who made a college career out of beating DBs with quicker 40 times on medium to long routes. One could make the same case for other WRs who play much faster than they time.

John_Viveiros wrote:An interesting statistical analysis on the importance of speed to a wide receiver:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1599 ... dash-times

Regarding 40 time vs. Pro Football Reference Approximate Value for WR's I had always known that 40 times were a bit suspect as career predictors, but to have essentially no correlation to success (as long as the athlete was productive enough to be invited to the combine) was a bit of a surprise.

I don't know what the hell all that meant, but it doesn't take a mathematician to know that 40 times are worthless in the form of indicating whether or not someone can play football or not.

Cordarrelle Patterson - WR - Player

NFL Films guru Greg Cosell believes Tennessee WR Cordarrelle Patterson has "open field instincts and movement" that cannot be taught, and that there are very few players Patterson's size with his kind of ability.

Patterson checks in at 6-foot-2, 216. There's been chatter than Patterson's raw route-running ability may knock him out of the first round, but Cosell doesn't expect it to "dramatically affect his draft status." Along with West Virginia's Tavon Austin, Cosell calls Patterson a player who made him say "wow" while watching tape. "Believe me," Cosell wrote. "That does not happen too often."
Source: Yahoo Sports

dead_poet wrote:Cordarrelle Patterson - WR - Player

NFL Films guru Greg Cosell believes Tennessee WR Cordarrelle Patterson has "open field instincts and movement" that cannot be taught, and that there are very few players Patterson's size with his kind of ability.

Patterson checks in at 6-foot-2, 216. There's been chatter than Patterson's raw route-running ability may knock him out of the first round, but Cosell doesn't expect it to "dramatically affect his draft status." Along with West Virginia's Tavon Austin, Cosell calls Patterson a player who made him say "wow" while watching tape. "Believe me," Cosell wrote. "That does not happen too often."
Source: Yahoo Sports

Well in that case I hope we trade our first 5 picks to the chiefs so we can take this guy #1 overall, Cosell was WoW'ed folks, it's settled!

PacificNorseWest wrote: I don't know what the hell all that meant, but it doesn't take a mathematician to know that 40 times are worthless in the form of indicating whether or not someone can play football or not.

So that makes three or four of you who say essentially, 'of course 40 times are worthless'. But the 40 time is essentially the only thing making Cordarelle Patterson a draftable WR. I we can believe losperros earlier in the thread:

...one year with 778 yards [ed: and five TD's] and people are drooling over this guy! He was the 88th most productive college WR...

If Cordarelle ran a 4.55, would he be drafted before the third day? Would he be chosen based on his hands and his route-running abilities? The label of "Raw" when it comes to Cordarelle seems to answer that in the negative.

Of course, people can quibble about the high level of competition he faced (he may be better than other guys with better stats who played against easier DB's) or its opposite, the fact that he had a pro-caliber QB throwing to him. But to me, he looks like a tall Troy Williamson based on the reports.

So Cordarelle isn't one of the top playmakers in this draft then? Oh, ok.

I don't care where he goes in the draft based upon comparative figures of a hypothetical 40 time. If he ran a 4.7 and teams skipped on drafting him then that's their problem. They wouldn't be the first team to pass on a guy because they didn't like his measurables.

Speeds important. We know that. But you can get a better guage of someone's football speed by watching the guy play on the field...That's all that matters. Not where they work on track form for 3 months just so they can run a straight dash.

I think people get a little too carried away with the "raw" label, which immediately brings Troy Williamson to mind for a lot of people. I understand that, but there are plenty of examples of "raw" players with incredible talents succeeding. Most people may not remember this, but Percy Harvin was (and still is) an extremely "raw WR". He's not a technician, he's not an advanced route runner, he's simply a player who has a special physical gift. Look at a scouting report of Julio Jones and you'll see that he was a gifted athlete with exceptional size and speed, but was a raw route runner who had some issues with drops. Again, look at Demaryius Thomas from a few years ago, extremely gifted physical talent, but VERY raw route runner with questionable hands.

There are examples of busts, sure, but there are just as many successes. The same goes for the more "technically sound" WRs too. Brian Robiskie, Devin Thomas, James Hardy, Mike Williams, Arrelious Benn, are all players who were considered more "polished" WRs, but less physically gifted, and got drafted high.

The point I'm trying to make is that when you get caught up in the negative is when you miss out on incredible talents. Taking the "safe" picks can just as easily backfire for you.

And Patterson to me is someone who's physical gifts are too rare to pass up and should translate well. It's not just about his speed/size combination that makes him so highly considered the top WR prospect. More than anything its the gift this kid has with the ball in his hands that makes him special. To make a comparison, he's very similar as a WR to Demaryius Thomas coming out of college, but add onto that fact the ability with the ball in his hands of a maybe a little lesser than Percy Harvin. What makes his special is he should be able to immediately impact a team as a big play waiting to happen, either in the return game or as a "gadget player". He is the kind of talent you manufacture ways to get him the ball. And then on top of all that, he has all the physical talents that translate into a elite WR if he can become a more technically sound and polished player.

Frankly, if we had Patterson sitting in our laps at 23 and passed, I might throw something through my tv.

John_Viveiros wrote:If Cordarelle ran a 4.55, would he be drafted before the third day? Would he be chosen based on his hands and his route-running abilities? The label of "Raw" when it comes to Cordarelle seems to answer that in the negative.

Of course, people can quibble about the high level of competition he faced (he may be better than other guys with better stats who played against easier DB's) or its opposite, the fact that he had a pro-caliber QB throwing to him. But to me, he looks like a tall Troy Williamson based on the reports.

That's simply untrue, John. How many games have you actually seen Cordarrelle Peterson play?

As I said before, it's Peterson's natural skill set, his abilities to make plays and his learning curve that has scouts impressed. Does his speed on the field also impress them? Yes. The guy can run away from defenders or run around them, and get great YAC, which is a formidable skill. And please, don't question the competition he faced. It's the SEC. Find a tougher conference anywhere in the nation. As for a pro-caliber QB, that's definitely debatable. Tyler Bray sometimes was so inaccurate that he looked as if he was throwing passes to opposing defenders or maybe the cheerleaders. Peterson needs coaching and more experience, but he's no slouch and deserves to be looked at as a WR with a great deal of potential in this draft.

I want Patterson if we go WR early. Not Hopkins, certainly not Austin. Patterson has the potentional of losing PH lees bitter.

I would be happy with Patterson, Austin or Hopkins. Tbh, I think this a great class for us, there aren't many WRs in the top few round I would be disappointed with. Whether it be Patterson, Austin, Hopkins or Allen in the first, or Hunter, Woods, or Wheaton in the 2nd/3rd. I'm not a huge fan of Terrance Williams or Aaron Dobson, and Quinton Patton would not make me overly excited. But I think there are a ton of options for us in this draft, and we should come away with a strong compliment to Jennings and Wright.