Draft Day thread

[CharVike]

Another year of trading down away from the talent and getting nothing for the swap. Hamilton who is a great safety and we let him slide. I compare this stiff we drafted to another 2nd round safety Tyrell Johnson. Same type of player and we will get the same result. Cine has zero coverage ability, lacks play recognition which means he will always be late in coverage and can't make a play on the ball. He's a box safety. Below sums this guy up.
On passing downs, he may be best-suited playing as a linebacker in sub-packages where he can use his athleticism to blitz and affect the passer.
This is a perfect example on why I hate trading away from the talent. This guy looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. Might as well trade the next pick, 34, for a 7th and a future 7th rounder. No help from this draft.

[fiestavike]

Another year of trading down away from the talent and getting nothing for the swap. Hamilton who is a great safety and we let him slide. I compare this stiff we drafted to another 2nd round safety Tyrell Johnson. Same type of player and we will get the same result. Cine has zero coverage ability, lacks play recognition which means he will always be late in coverage and can't make a play on the ball. He's a box safety. Below sums this guy up.
On passing downs, he may be best-suited playing as a linebacker in sub-packages where he can use his athleticism to blitz and affect the passer.
This is a perfect example on why I hate trading away from the talent. This guy looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. Might as well trade the next pick, 34, for a 7th and a future 7th rounder. No help from this draft.

For all I know, Cine may be great. His versatility and ability to play as LB in dime/nickel might allow the defense to camouflage what they are doing. Unlike previous years, I really haven't paid much attention this year. But in brief research, he looks nowhere near the player that Hamilton is, and I'm not sure he isn't a significant drop off from Dax Hill either.

What alarms me is the terrible value in the trade, and what alarms me even more is just the goofy millennial leadership group that our owners have put together with O'Conner and Kwesi. They are rather cringeworthy in their public facing personas.

[VikingsVictorious]

GM Adofo-Mensah on Lions taking WR Jameson Williams in Minnesota's spot at No. 12 and Vikings getting safety Lewis Cine at No. 32: "(Williams) was one of our favorite players in the draft but we got a pretty bad dude on our team."
So trading him to a division rival makes sense. Tonight =Fail

Good point and I can see him being so motivated to play against us. The one thing on our side if you think we may have taken Hamilton without the trade back is Cine is way faster than Hamilton, but there's more to playing the game than just speed.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Another year of trading down away from the talent and getting nothing for the swap. Hamilton who is a great safety and we let him slide. I compare this stiff we drafted to another 2nd round safety Tyrell Johnson. Same type of player and we will get the same result. Cine has zero coverage ability, lacks play recognition which means he will always be late in coverage and can't make a play on the ball. He's a box safety. Below sums this guy up.
On passing downs, he may be best-suited playing as a linebacker in sub-packages where he can use his athleticism to blitz and affect the passer.
This is a perfect example on why I hate trading away from the talent. This guy looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. Might as well trade the next pick, 34, for a 7th and a future 7th rounder. No help from this draft.

For all I know, Cine may be great. His versatility and ability to play as LB in dime/nickel might allow the defense to camouflage what they are doing. Unlike previous years, I really haven't paid much attention this year. But in brief research, he looks nowhere near the player that Hamilton is, and I'm not sure he isn't a significant drop off from Dax Hill either.

What alarms me is the terrible value in the trade, and what alarms me even more is just the goofy millennial leadership group that our owners have put together with O'Conner and Kwesi. They are rather cringeworthy in their public facing personas.

I’m kind of with you here.

What I’m not mad about…. Getting Cine. I did like him in this draft and think we can use him in a variety of ways.

What I am mad about….. the return we got in that trade. Absolutely horrible. I don’t care what way they spin that, you just moved down 20 spots and practically gained a 3rd. Look what the giants landed in the fields trade last year. Look what the bills landed in the Mahomes trade in 2017. What we got in return was embarrassing. Not only that but you were taken to the cleaner by your division rival. And then handed them Jameson Williams. Like imagine in Jameson Williams turns into another JJ.

What I can also agree with is what you said about the millennial staff. Everything is just way too positive and “ra-ra” for me. It’s like the wilfs sat these guys down in a room and said “listen, our last coach was a giant grumpy dic#head, don’t be like that. He also didn’t communicate with our GM, you guys have to communicate. This needs to be a no feelings hurt environment.” And now both KAM and KOC are like over the top positive about everything. And they can’t have a presser without praising the others collaboration and leadership skills. It’s almost like they are trying too hard to impress the wilfs and give them what they want. Like just be a coach and a GM. Quit drooling over each other with positivity and praise. You’re right, it’s near cringeworthy

[Thaumaturgist]

Well, that sucked... Thanks for the recap folks. Didn't get a chance to catch it last night.

My new internal name for Kwesi...

Kwazy

Sorry, I haven't had my coffee yet.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I remember for all the Spielman haters, I often said “be careful what you wish for” when everyone wanted him fired. I, for one, wanted to keep him. And just to add salt into the wound, there’s a very good chance that if Spielman was our current GM, he would’ve taken Kyle Hamilton tonight. He came on a podcast saying Hamilton was his favorite player in the draft.

The jury is still out on KAM and I was hesitant with his free agency although he improved it with Zadarius, the draft is what worried me with him. It didn’t worry me with Spielman. And I’m really hoping that down the road, this raping Kwesi just took in terms of value on that trade, I can call a welcome to the nfl draft moment and he doesn’t make that mistake again.

You wanna trade down, fine. But get your damn value in the trade down. It was embarrassing how lopsided the value was in that trade and it was within your own division.

[psjordan]

I did get a few chuckles reading this thread. Fans are funny sometimes.

I'd ask a few questions of those about to line up our new regime in front of the firing squad:

Regarding this draft in the abstract, what were your expectations? I mean, it sounds like some of you were thinking "if we get X player at #12 we're off to the SB baby!". No matter what happened or happens in this draft, the chances that it would move our metric more than a game or two in either direction were tiny.

Drafts always surprise, both in real time and in hindsight. We have no clue how this first day trade will end up. You. Do. Not. Know. Some of you think you know, but no one does at this point. Not Rick Spielman, not Jimmy Johnson, not Mel Kiper. Patience.

Regarding this trade in particular, it's not even complete yet and folks are gathering the pitchforks, gasoline and matches. Good golly, let the deal play out, at least through today. There's no telling where the five players involved will end up, so even judging after today is a fool's game.

A lot of you have been barking for years for change from the Rick/Zim regime. We have had the new regime for what, 10 minutes now? Geez, give them some time - if yesterday's deal ends up a loser for us, so be it. The real issue is whether our employees learn from it and get better. Not everybody is "100% FIRE!!" on the first day they get hired.

My real beef with the prior regime is that they never seemed to learn anything. Everyone including the coaching staff complained about the OL for years and years but not one person in the building learned enough to do anything about it. If this new regime is the same, then I'd want them canned as well.

It's just a tad early to make that call.

And regarding our "goofy millennial" staff, look at the bright side - at least they don't have kids old enough to land a job on our coaching staff.

[fiestavike]

I did get a few chuckles reading this thread. Fans are funny sometimes.

I'd ask a few questions of those about to line up our new regime in front of the firing squad:

Regarding this draft in the abstract, what were your expectations? I mean, it sounds like some of you were thinking "if we get X player at #12 we're off to the SB baby!". No matter what happened or happens in this draft, the chances that it would move our metric more than a game or two in either direction were tiny.

Drafts always surprise, both in real time and in hindsight. We have no clue how this first day trade will end up. You. Do. Not. Know. Some of you think you know, but no one does at this point. Not Rick Spielman, not Jimmy Johnson, not Mel Kiper. Patience.

Regarding this trade in particular, it's not even complete yet and folks are gathering the pitchforks, gasoline and matches. Good golly, let the deal play out, at least through today. There's no telling where the five players involved will end up, so even judging after today is a fool's game.

A lot of you have been barking for years for change from the Rick/Zim regime. We have had the new regime for what, 10 minutes now? Geez, give them some time - if yesterday's deal ends up a loser for us, so be it. The real issue is whether our employees learn from it and get better. Not everybody is "100% FIRE!!" on the first day they get hired.

My real beef with the prior regime is that they never seemed to learn anything. Everyone including the coaching staff complained about the OL for years and years but not one person in the building learned enough to do anything about it. If this new regime is the same, then I'd want them canned as well.

It's just a tad early to make that call.

And regarding our "goofy millennial" staff, look at the bright side - at least they don't have kids old enough to land a job on our coaching staff.

The nepotism quip at the end was good! ha ha.

I don't have to 'wait and see' how the draft worked out. There is no doubt that the Vikings could still wind up with good players, even better players than those selected earlier. It happens all the time. And I am actually generally in favor of trading back, and believe it does often add value. But there is no spinning it. Kwesi got absolutely taken. This was a very very very poor deal, even if 'the ball goes in the basket' and the Vikings get great players with 32, 34, and 66. Even if Hamilton and the WR Detroit took flame out. It's like taking a shot early in the clock from 40 feet out in the middle of the second quarter in a basketball game. We might all be screaming "no, no, no, YES!" if the ball goes in the hoop, but it's an objectively sh%^y shot which reveals terrible judgement.

You. Do. Not. Know. Some of you think you know, but no one does at this point

Nobody "thinks they know". We know this was a sh%^ trade value. If you don't get that, I can see why you don't understand the degree and volume of criticism coming Kwesi's way. You really miss the point if you think the critics of the trade "think they know" everything, but that's just a very condescending assumption.

[CharVike]

Another year of trading down away from the talent and getting nothing for the swap. Hamilton who is a great safety and we let him slide. I compare this stiff we drafted to another 2nd round safety Tyrell Johnson. Same type of player and we will get the same result. Cine has zero coverage ability, lacks play recognition which means he will always be late in coverage and can't make a play on the ball. He's a box safety. Below sums this guy up.
On passing downs, he may be best-suited playing as a linebacker in sub-packages where he can use his athleticism to blitz and affect the passer.
This is a perfect example on why I hate trading away from the talent. This guy looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. Might as well trade the next pick, 34, for a 7th and a future 7th rounder. No help from this draft.

For all I know, Cine may be great. His versatility and ability to play as LB in dime/nickel might allow the defense to camouflage what they are doing. Unlike previous years, I really haven't paid much attention this year. But in brief research, he looks nowhere near the player that Hamilton is, and I'm not sure he isn't a significant drop off from Dax Hill either.

What alarms me is the terrible value in the trade, and what alarms me even more is just the goofy millennial leadership group that our owners have put together with O'Conner and Kwesi. They are rather cringeworthy in their public facing personas.

He's not close to the player that Hamilton is. Hamilton is great at playing the ball and his range is off the charts. He's 6'4" so throwing over him is close to impossible. The NFL is all about passing and Cine is a box safety which hasn't been relevant in 20 + years. Plus he's weak in the box. We could have picked a dam good player at 12. There were two guys I liked at that spot before the draft and that was Hamilton and WR Olave who I thought would be the pick. Olave was gone and we got lucky that Hamilton dropped. The talent this year is weak overall. The only good trade was to move up. I think they were expecting CB Stingley to drop and once he was gone they had no idea what to do and just traded back and did a rethink. The value we got was worthless especially when you consider the players available at 12 in a draft with no depth. Just for a laugh it would be more enjoyable if they just forfeit or trade the rest of the picks for nothing and go home. Stop the game and dump Kwesi. That 12 pick was worth a fortune this year because of weak talent level and we got nothing. That whole value chart is out dated. That chart don't even consider the talent available. The value of No 1 pick this year isn't close to a year when an Andrew Luck type is available. Hopefully I'm wrong and this guy is a great pick.

[Texas Vike]

Wonder if someone gets crazy and trades a haul for pick 34. Or the Vikings can take Willis. It’ll probably be Booth or Dean though.

I'm guessing we take Booth, but haven't read up on his core injury, which may have been why he slid a bit.

[IIsweet]

Definitely not thrilled with our trade ! However, having seen Cine play all I say is that this dude is going to be making plays all over the place. I think that he is similar to the other switchblade safeties that have been drafted recently. I also think that maybe the speed factor is a big issue for our new defense and that's why Hamilton is passed over. We already have Harrison who is no spring chicken. Cine at 6'2 200 is blazing fast. 4.37 speed and is a BIG GAME player. CFB National Championship game MVP !!! He didn't disappear like so many do. He will start immediately and be a difference maker from day 1 !!!
I am now very interested in seeing how tonight goes. We have 34, 66, and 77.
I expect a trade down from 34 though, but maybe a trade back into the 2nd with the added 3rd.
Adding 2 picks in the 2nd is pretty good. Would Seattle trade their 2 2nds for 34 and then take Malik Willis ?

[allday1991]

Definitely not thrilled with our trade ! However, having seen Cine play all I say is that this dude is going to be making plays all over the place. I think that he is similar to the other switchblade safeties that have been drafted recently. I also think that maybe the speed factor is a big issue for our new defense and that's why Hamilton is passed over. We already have Harrison who is no spring chicken. Cine at 6'2 200 is blazing fast. 4.37 speed and is a BIG GAME player. CFB National Championship game MVP !!! He didn't disappear like so many do. He will start immediately and be a difference maker from day 1 !!!
I am now very interested in seeing how tonight goes. We have 34, 66, and 77.
I expect a trade down from 34 though, but maybe a trade back into the 2nd with the added 3rd.
Adding 2 picks in the 2nd is pretty good. Would Seattle trade their 2 2nds for 34 and then take Malik Willis ?

He reminds me of Mark Baron.

[Cliff]

They moved down 20 spots, basically changed their 2nd rounder into a 1st, and added the 2nd pick of the 3rd round. On top of that, at the 32 spot they picked up a player that most people seem pretty happy with and was the 2nd best safety in the class according to PFF.

I get the feeling if the Vikings moved down to 28 instead of 32 and the 34 pick was 32 instead people would magically be happy with it. "He got an extra 1st rounder!"

[Texas Vike]

Wonder if someone gets crazy and trades a haul for pick 34. Or the Vikings can take Willis. It’ll probably be Booth or Dean though.

I'm guessing we take Booth, but haven't read up on his core injury, which may have been why he slid a bit.

Just read up on TB's draft needs, and CB & DT are mentioned, so they might well take Booth @ 33. If that plays out, do we take Dean, trade out for someone who wants Malik, or go with the Edge from the Gophers?

[psjordan]

Nobody "thinks they know". We know this was a sh%^ trade value. If you don't get that, I can see why you don't understand the degree and volume of criticism coming Kwesi's way. You really miss the point if you think the critics of the trade "think they know" everything, but that's just a very condescending assumption.

Well certainly a lot of people are posting in "absolutes", as in "we absolutely got fleeced in this deal". To me, that is assuming you know we got fleeced. Nothing condescending about it. I based my comments off of the posts in this thread.

And I "get" the degree of carp being directed at our GM, I just don't agree with it.

Even stating "we got fleeced on VALUE" is basically stating you know the value of these picks. No one knows the value of these picks. This is not a game played with charts made up by Jimmy Johnson, this is a game played on the field. The ONLY valid perception of value is how the actual players selected play on the field. And that is a combination of being drafted by us AND being coached by us. It is in no way tied to some arbitrary chart.

And unfortunately for all of us impatient fans, the only way to judge value is to see how the players perform on the field, after being coached by our staff.

What is your definition of a good GM? One who follows JJ's charts and always gets "more points" than other GM's, or one who selects players that perform well on the field based on their traits and our ability to coach? Good grief, you have to wait for the latter.