Vikings Message Board.Com

mondry wrote:
If the game plan is the same then I'm extremely worried, that basically means we're banking on the weather and the defense to keep them under 14 points for most of the game so we can waste a lot of plays simply running into stacked fronts "for no reason" other than to randy ratio carries to Peterson.

That didn't work last game and SEA is on fire right now where GB is a mess. I don't think we can expect to keep SEA to 3 points at half time, either. Basically what I see happening is the same thing that happened in the last game, we'll run for -2 yards on first down, maybe +1 on 2nd down then ask Teddy to bail them out on 3rd and 11 where they can rush four and drop seven into coverage to take away the first down marker. That's not fair to Teddy at all and I can already see his detractor's having a field day for another bad performance.

What it comes down to for me is this, are we running when they expect us to run and passing when they expect us to pass. If the answer is yes like last game we will lose without a miracle performance from the D. Let's hope they study that Rams tape...
They'll likely be made non factors as blockers in a max protect scheme so don't expect much if Norv stays the course. Rudolph had zero catches last game and even though he isn't particularly good at blocking I expect more of the same from Norv even though I agree seattle is weak against TE's, we won't be able to exploit it if Norv uses the same "run and throw deep" game plan in max protect.

This is exactly how I see it......very well said all.

Texas Vike wrote: Sounds like you've already thrown the towel in. Keep your head up, we won the North and we're playing in January at home!

I'm hoping that Norv (and Zimmer) come out with a smart and varied game plan. Maybe I'll be disappointed, but I do expect them to have learned something since the last match up.

I know, I'm hoping that as well, I was expecting DOOM against ARI too and they came out with a much better game plan so it is possible. I guess I'm just worried cause the typical thing we've RELIED on is countered so badly by the Hawks D. They can take away the run and they can take away the deep passing game while only sending 4 rushers because our O-line is so over matched. Because of that I expect more max protect and that is a losing strategy because now they have 7 guys covering teddy's 2 or 3 options and last game they STILL got an enormous amount of pressure on us.

Ideally we need to attack early and like you said, I think it needs to be a quick hitting passing game that features the TE's in the intermediate routes down the middle of the field because that is where they are weakest.

autobon7 wrote: This is exactly how I see it......very well said all.

Thanks, I really hope I'm wrong but that's what I "feel".

mondry wrote:If the game plan is the same then I'm extremely worried, that basically means we're banking on the weather and the defense to keep them under 14 points for most of the game so we can waste a lot of plays simply running into stacked fronts "for no reason" other than to randy ratio carries to Peterson.

That didn't work last game and SEA is on fire right now where GB is a mess. I don't think we can expect to keep SEA to 3 points at half time, either. Basically what I see happening is the same thing that happened in the last game, we'll run for -2 yards on first down, maybe +1 on 2nd down then ask Teddy to bail them out on 3rd and 11 where they can rush four and drop seven into coverage to take away the first down marker. That's not fair to Teddy at all and I can already see his detractor's having a field day for another bad performance.

Speaking of unfair... can we at least deal in reality? There was literally never a series in that Green Bay game where the Vikings ran Peterson on two consecutive downs and ended up with a net gain of -1 yard. It never happened. The closest thing to that came on the third possession, when he ran for no gain on first down and just 2 yards on second down and that was atypical in the game.

Here's how it actually went when they ran on first down (and sometimes followed that with another run on second down:

1st possession:
1st down: Peterson for 1 yard
2nd down: Peterson for 10 yards

2nd possession:
1st down: Peterson for 6 yards
2nd down: Peterson for 2 yards

3rd possession:
1st down: Peterson for no gain
2nd down: Peterson for 2 yards

4th possession:
(second 1st down of the possession): Peterson for 3 yards
(third 1st down of the possession: Peterson for 2 yards

6th possession:
(second 1st down of the possession): Peterson for 10 yards
(fourth 1st down of the possession: Peterson for 5 yards
2nd down: Peterson for 3 yards
3rd down: Peterson for 3 yards, Touchdown

7th possession:
1st down: Peterson for 6 yards
neutral zone infraction on second down
1st down: Peterson for 3 yards

8th possession: Peterson was out for this series
1st down: McKinnon for 10 yards
1st down: McKinnon for 6 yards
2nd down: penalty on GB
1st down: McKinnon for -2 yards

9th and final possession:
1st down: Bridgewater botches handoff to Peterson
2nd down: Peterson for 5 yards
3rd down: Peterson for 2 yards

Not one of those scenarios left them asking Bridgewater to bail them out on 3rd and 11 after running on first and second down. Only one of them even resulted in a 3rd and long.

Sorry to get technical about this but it's much more difficult to discuss games and strategies when people refer to the game in their head rather than what actually happened on the field.

What it comes down to for me is this, are we running when they expect us to run and passing when they expect us to pass. If the answer is yes like last game we will lose without a miracle performance from the D. Let's hope they study that Rams tape...

I agree that being overly predictable will hurt them but Bridgewater and company need to take advantage of opportunities when they have them, especially when Turner does go against tendencies, as he did on the much-discussed incompletion to McKinnon.

losperros wrote: I think you're right. The Vikings passing game won't win this one. So I'm hoping that with a cold surface (which makes a fast field) we might see Peterson have a monster game. Of course, it would help if the OL blocks for him. I also am counting on Patterson returning a kick for a TD. Maybe two. Trouble is Seattle has to score for Patterson to get the opportunities.

I guess that would not be so bad if we are trading their FG for our kick off return TD.

When I think of the Vikes, the offense, games, whether they are regular season or playoffs, there is one word that is always a punch to the stomach that makes me worry I will survive it, and the word is "Norv."

Most Vikings fans' feelings are known about him, and his recurrent play calling on 1st and 2nd, so I'll put down the whip. The horse is down to bare bones by now.

Go Vikes!!!!

...wisdom

Mothman,
I believe you're wrong here. Mondry was generalizing the previous game against Seattle, not GB as you corrected.
Mondry, I agree wholeheartedly. To beat Seattle this week, we need to not be Predictable. It's the playoffs.
Don't hold anything back.
Try catching them off guard. Confuse them. They're game planning right now, throw them something completely different.

This topic is about the Vikes Offense, and everyone who is a Vikes fan wants to confuse the 'hawks, do something different, hit'em fast, but again, it's Norv, and we can only hope someone above him gives him an earful and let's him know, "Predictable play-calling will kill us. Do something different, aggressive, punch them in the mouth with great play-calling, execution and TDs, not FGs."

...wisdom

Could you imagine how insane that place would be if we get a long TD drive to start than a turn over or 3 and out and score again? 14-0 going into the second quarter?


On a side note. I think we need to lean on the Defense this game. I think we need to kick to start and bank on a 3 and out or a punt/turnover for the Seahawks to start. It seems like every game we have momentum in and we received to start, the oppose team manage to pull a score out before halftime and then score again right after, thus killing momentum.

IIsweet wrote:Mothman,
I believe you're wrong here. Mondry was generalizing the previous game against Seattle, not GB as you corrected.

I considered that but in the end, I figured he was referring to the GB game because the Vikings only ran the ball with their RBs 14 times against Seattle. If he actually was referring to that Seattle game, the same criticism applies: the scenario he described isn't an accurate representation of what actually happened.

The first down runs (by the RBs) from that game, including second down runs when they followed a first down carry with another running play:

First possession:
1st down: Peterson for 3 yards
2nd down: Peterson for 4 yards

Second possession:
1st down: Peterson for -1 yard

Third possession:
1st down: Peterson for 5 yards
1st down: Peterson for -1 yard

Fourth possession:
1st down: McKinnon for 6 yards

Sixth possession:
1st down: Peterson for 5 yards
2nd down: Peterson for 1 yard

7th possession:
1st down (second of possession): Peterson for 2 yards
1st down (fourth—this was 1st and 38!): McKinnon for 4 yards

8th possession:
1st down: McKinnon for -4 yards

Again, there were no 3rd and excessively long scenarios created by two straight runs on first and second down, leaving Bridgewater in an unfair position.

Let's deal with the reality of what happened in these games and not false impressions.

What if we include WR screen passes or any pass that stays behind the LOS by design? It seems like we do a lot of those when we get stuffed on a first down run.

TSonn wrote:What if we include WR screen passes or any pass that stays behind the LOS by design? It seems like we do a lot of those when we get stuffed on a first down run.

Have at it!

I really liked some of the play calls we had on Sunday vs GB. We surprised GB with some stuff nobody was really expecting. The fake punt and Thielen reverse were great calls. I say throw CP in there on a jet sweep or in the backfield for some carries. It's the playoffs. We have to get the focus off of AP and more guys need to step up and make plays