Vikings Message Board.Com

allday1991 wrote:
Ponders inaccurate, rarely goes through more than his first read, is quick to leave the pocket, often runs to his left despite throwing with his right, and looks confused half the time, anyone who has been watching him play the last two seasons and this game against the lions know this is exactly what you see and is not extreme or irrational.

His accuracy actually ranks in the top 15 in the league, although he definitely has an inaccurate long ball, so he is kind of accurate. He does check down, but he stares down his intended receiver with laser like precision that draws defenders right to where he's throwing the ball many times. The rolls to his left are designed that way, and you get to thank OC Musgrave for that. Actually, I don't see him dithering or confused, but he does not seem to see the field like a good QB should.

So, I find your criticisms inaccurate, if not extreme or irrational. The truth is that perception trumps reality. I want him to not be the starting QB, but I don't go out of my way to denigrate every single thing he does without giving him credit for the things he might do right.

BGM wrote: His accuracy actually ranks in the top 15 in the league, although he definitely has an inaccurate long ball, so he is kind of accurate. He does check down, but he stares down his intended receiver with laser like precision that draws defenders right to where he's throwing the ball many times. The rolls to his left are designed that way, and you get to thank OC Musgrave for that. Actually, I don't see him dithering or confused, but he does not seem to see the field like a good QB should.

So, I find your criticisms inaccurate, if not extreme or irrational. The truth is that perception trumps reality. I want him to not be the starting QB, but I don't go out of my way to denigrate every single thing he does without giving him credit for the things he might do right.

So you think he is accurate on the short passes? He certainly wasn't today. I also think he is extremely inaccurate. short or long. His receivers have to make outstanding catches, instead of Ponder hitting them in stride.

His accuracy actually ranks in the top 15 in the league

When a third of your passes are behind the line of scrimmage. Your accuracy numbers are going to be good. When you don't even have the guts to throw down field when the game is over and your in hurry up, your numbers are going to look better....his accuracy doesn't rank in the top 15 because he's an accurate passer. Did you watch this game? And he still managed 64%....

mondry wrote: For sure, I mean Tjackson is still in the league as a back up.

To be honest, I think Tjack is a little bit better than Ponder. we're talking High school level QBs here. They both throw deep passes like High School QBs

BGM wrote: His accuracy actually ranks in the top 15 in the league, although he definitely has an inaccurate long ball, so he is kind of accurate. He does check down, but he stares down his intended receiver with laser like precision that draws defenders right to where he's throwing the ball many times. The rolls to his left are designed that way, and you get to thank OC Musgrave for that. Actually, I don't see him dithering or confused, but he does not seem to see the field like a good QB should.

So, I find your criticisms inaccurate, if not extreme or irrational. The truth is that perception trumps reality. I want him to not be the starting QB, but I don't go out of my way to denigrate every single thing he does without giving him credit for the things he might do right.

Scariest thing about that Ponder sack is he had Rudolph open in one flat, Peterson in other. He's not recognizing anything.
Expand
Jim Souhan ‏@SouhanStrib 18m

Here is actual evidence proving Ponder has problems seeing people other than his first read, rather than counter my point by just saying he does go through his progression how about some proof?

I know the rolls to the left are designed that way, but Ponder also likes to do a horizontal escape (witch he was picked on because the defender got his arm) and seems to like his left.

I have seen Ponder picked twice on bad throws (in his last 100 attempts) only 5 yards down field on a slants to Simpson.. inaccurate.

Final point Ponder looks lost: We got the ball at 3:19 in the 4th quarter on our own 1 yard line, against a deep zone coverage it took Ponder 1 minute and 30 seconds to move the ball to our own 30, if that doesn't some up confused, just look at how small our play book is, that shows you just how confused our QB is.

S197 wrote:I'll be a Vikings fan until the day they die, no matter who is behind center. I can't imagine cheering for another team under any circumstances.

allday1991 wrote:

Scariest thing about that Ponder sack is he had Rudolph open in one flat, Peterson in other. He's not recognizing anything.
Expand
Jim Souhan ‏@SouhanStrib 18m

Here is actual evidence proving Ponder has problems seeing people other than his first read, rather than counter my point by just saying he does go through his progression how about some proof?

Your proof that he is not going through reads is a tweet by sports columnist Jim Souhan?

I did say he has terrible field vision, and I think that is by far his biggest weakness. I think he goes through his reads, but I don't think he sees the field well, hence he misses open reads. You understand the difference there, right?

However, he also throws accurately in short to medium range (hence his 61.2% completion percentage which ranked in the top 15 last season), so at least one facet of his game is ok. If he could actually see his open reads... we'd be talking about a win today. And that's why I think he's done. He can make the throws, but he just doesn't see the window.

allday1991 wrote:Scariest thing about that Ponder sack is he had Rudolph open in one flat, Peterson in other. He's not recognizing anything.
Expand
Jim Souhan ‏@SouhanStrib 18m

Here is actual evidence proving Ponder has problems seeing people other than his first read, rather than counter my point by just saying he does go through his progression how about some proof?

A tweet from Souhan isn't strong evidence of anything other what he thinks he saw. I remember seeing that tweet in the game thread as I heard the broadcast crew describe that same play as a coverage sack, saying Ponder had nowhere to go with the ball. I haven't seen the play yet so I have no idea which, if either, interpretation is accurate but the film will provide actual evidence.

BGM wrote:However, he also throws accurately in short to medium range (hence his 61.2% completion percentage which ranked in the top 15 last season), so at least one facet of his game is ok.

And with just a 6.1 yard average per attempt, that 61.2% completion percentage is easy to understand.

He had very little accuracy today. He made a couple of good throws and a lot of poor ones. His receivers made some outstanding catches on really badly placed balls.

BGM wrote: Your proof that he is not going through reads is a tweet by sports columnist Jim Souhan?

I did say he has terrible field vision, and I think that is by far his biggest weakness. I think he goes through his reads, but I don't think he sees the field well, hence he misses open reads. You understand the difference there, right?

However, he also throws accurately in short to medium range (hence his 61.2% completion percentage which ranked in the top 15 last season), so at least one facet of his game is ok. If he could actually see his open reads... we'd be talking about a win today. And that's why I think he's done. He can make the throws, but he just doesn't see the window.

If you read a few post up you will see why his passing completion Is higher than it should be, did you watch this offence last year? Our best passing play was a screen like dump to Harvin ....so hard to complete. My prove of him not going through his reads is in the information of another person seeing what I see so therefor backing up my point, notice I didn't have to use words like "I think' he goes through his reads like you did.

Mothman wrote: A tweet from Souhan isn't strong evidence of anything other what he thinks he saw. I remember seeing that tweet in the game thread as I heard the broadcast crew describe that same play as a coverage sack, saying Ponder had nowhere to go with the ball. I haven't seen the play yet so I have no idea which, if either, interpretation is accurate but the film will provide actual evidence.

He is a sport analysis I don't except him to get it right all the time but I believe they see and understand the game better than an average fan. Do me a favor and look up Rudolph's crazy td at the 49ers last year where he fights off the defender and catches the ball with one hand, watch the play again and see a wide open Adrian Peterson literally five yards over not even get a look because Ponder is staring his first read down the whole way. Is that some better proof?

allday1991 wrote:He is a sport analysis I don't except him to get it right all the time but I believe they see and understand the game better than an average fan.

So do ex-NFL linebackers like Pete Bercich, who referred to the play as a coverage sack. So, we have a sportswriter and a former NFL player with radically different takes on the same play. Who do we believe?

As I said, the evidence will be on the film.

Do me a favor and look up Rudolph's crazy td at the 49ers last year where he fights off the defender and catches the ball with one hand, watch the play again and see a wide open Adrian Peterson literally five yards over not even get a look because Ponder is staring his first read down the whole way. Is that some better proof?

It's one play... and it was a TD. If I recall correctly, there was also a blitzing pass rusher coming at Ponder from the exact same direction he would have had to look to see Peterson and throw to him. He reacted to the pass rush and threw a TD... and that upsets you because he didn't throw the ideal TD?

Fans don't just want Ponder to be better, they want him to be perfect and since he's a long, long way from perfect, even his successes are considered failures. A TD pass isn't enough. A deep completion isn't enough because it could have been a TD and it wasn't thrown perfectly. It never ends...

Mothman wrote:Fans don't just want Ponder to be better, they want him to be perfect and since he's a long, long way from perfect, even his successes are considered failures. A TD pass isn't enough. A deep completion isn't enough because it could have been a TD and it wasn't thrown perfectly. It never ends...

Fans always overreact to a pathetic loss especially in Game 1 when optimism is at its highest, myself included. The problem I have with Ponder on the Simpson circus catch was that Simpson was wide open and it should have been the easiest TD pass of his career. 95% of starting NFL QBs make that throw every time. Stafford showed he could make throws like that routinely, even in a game where he made some mistakes. I can understand an occasional misfire on a wide open guy, Ponder rarely seems to hit the easy ones in stride. He's not playing at an NFL level on too many plays. I will excuse it in a win, but not in a game where we needed him to step up when AD was shut down after the first play. I am not saying he never makes plays. He does not make enough. This thread is about Ponder, which is why I did not introduce the many other reasons they lost today. It was a team effort as always. When you watch the game, note there could have been two pick sixes. Unacceptable on every level, but I may be overreacting. The team could easily rebound and win next week with him at QB. They were 10-6 last year with him at QB.

Mothman wrote: So do ex-NFL linebackers like Pete Bercich, who referred to the play as a coverage sack. So, we have a sportswriter and a former NFL player with radically different takes on the same play. Who do we believe?

As I said, the evidence will be on the film.
It's one play... and it was a TD. If I recall correctly, there was also a blitzing pass rusher coming at Ponder from the exact same direction he would have had to look to see Peterson and throw to him. He reacted to the pass rush and threw a TD... and that upsets you because he didn't throw the ideal TD?

Fans don't just want Ponder to be better, they want him to be perfect and since he's a long, long way from perfect, even his successes are considered failures. A TD pass isn't enough. A deep completion isn't enough because it could have been a TD and it wasn't thrown perfectly. It never ends...

Are we asking to much as fans for our QB to be able to see the open guy and hit WRs in stride? I have given two exact examples where I believe Ponder isn't seeing the open WR, and all you can chalk it up to is something about a coverage sack? I was talking about the Sport writing noticing Ponder not seeing the open guy, What does that have to do with a Former linebacker calling it a coverage sack, maybe he was listening on the radio to and not watching the game so he cant see the open guy like the majority of people on this board do. Watch the Rudolph TD again (there is a Blitzer coming to the left, but there is still a clear easy throw to A.p), I am not complaining its a TD I am complaining that he cant see the wide open guy literally five yards left of Rudolph, but lets give credit to Ponder for throwing it into good coverage and forcing Rudolph to make a circus catch, it never ends with the Ponder excuses.

CalVike wrote: Fans always overreact to a pathetic loss especially in Game 1 when optimism is at its highest, myself included. The problem I have with Ponder on the Simpson circus catch was that Simpson was wide open and it should have been the easiest TD pass of his career. 95% of starting NFL QBs make that throw every time. Stafford showed he could make throws like that routinely, even in a game where he made some mistakes. I can understand an occasional misfire on a wide open guy, Ponder rarely seems to hit the easy ones in stride. He's not playing at an NFL level on too many plays. I will excuse it in a win, but not in a game where we needed him to step up when AD was shut down after the first play. I am not saying he never makes plays. He does not make enough. This thread is about Ponder, which is why I did not introduce the many other reasons they lost today. It was a team effort as always. When you watch the game, note there could have been two pick sixes. Unacceptable on every level, but I may be overreacting. The team could easily rebound and win next week with him at QB. They were 10-6 last year with him at QB.

Nope apparently that's to much us Viking fans should be happen with Ponder just getting the ball close enough that the WR has the ability to make the catch its not up to him to lead the WR in stride, only players like Manning and Brees can do that.