Vikings Message Board.Com

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:12 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:57 am

Those were some great .500 years he had with Cousins, no doubt. Williams value as a shutdown LT was really demonstrated when he was blocking for a statue who takes forever to read a defense. I get why he would want that opportunity again.

But no you are right, I should be happy with a QB who's greatest achievement in his 8 year career was making the divisional round. 150 million guaranteed causing us to lose quality players because we can't afford them or because they hate the QB is well worth 10-5, and a divisional round blowout loss.

Wow dude. I know things are getting heated, but how about easing up on this post? He's just stating what he knows about Williams.

Despite all sorts of efforts by fans to smear Cousins as he left Washington, every credible report I've read says that Cousins was highly respected in the Redskins' locker room, especially by his O-line. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing there's no PFF stat for that.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:53 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:12 am
Wow dude. I know things are getting heated, but how about easing up on this post? He's just stating what he knows about Williams.

Despite all sorts of efforts by fans to smear Cousins as he left Washington, every credible report I've read says that Cousins was highly respected in the Redskins' locker room, especially by his O-line. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing there's no PFF stat for that.

I was fine with everything he wrote up until the "Cousins can do no right by some people" garbage. That is what my response was too. The implication that people are unfairly ripping Cousins despite his many great accomplishments of putting up great numbers against mostly inferior competition and that things wouldn't be very different if he took the team to the SB instead of floundering in the divisional round.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:48 pm

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:53 am

I was fine with everything he wrote up until the "Cousins can do no right by some people" garbage. That is what my response was too. The implication that people are unfairly ripping Cousins despite his many great accomplishments of putting up great numbers against mostly inferior competition and that things wouldn't be very different if he took the team to the SB instead of floundering in the divisional round.

It's not garbage. Cousins can do no right by some people. It was true in Washington, and it's true in Minnesota. You've been among the most outspoken on this board against Cousins, but montana didn't rip you. He simply stated something that most fans view as truth ... lots of people dislike Kirk Cousins as a quarterback.

No matter what there are gonna be that certain few who are gonna find their chance to RIP him now matter what he does. Hell I think of he personall.found the cure to the Covid 19 virus there would be a person here who would provide a stat that he held it too long in the lab before he pitched it to a lab tech. Geesh

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:21 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:48 pm
It's not garbage. Cousins can do no right by some people. It was true in Washington, and it's true in Minnesota. You've been among the most outspoken on this board against Cousins, but montana didn't rip you. He simply stated something that most fans view as truth ... lots of people dislike Kirk Cousins as a quarterback.

So this is a valid argument?:

No matter what there are gonna be that certain few who are gonna find their chance to RIP him now matter what he does. Hell I think of he personall.found the cure to the Covid 19 virus there would be a person here who would provide a stat that he held it too long in the lab before he pitched it to a lab tech. Geesh

Claiming that he will get ripped "no matter what he does" is weak strawman garbage. It would be like if I said Cousins could throw ten picks every game and certain people would still want him as their QB. That is absurd, and obviously there is a point where everyone would be on board with him getting cut, just like there is a point where everyone would be on board with him as their QB.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:25 pm

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:21 pm
So this is a valid argument?:


Claiming that he will get ripped "no matter what he does" is weak strawman garbage. It would be like if I said Cousins could throw ten picks every game and certain people would still want him as their QB. That is absurd, and obviously there is a point where everyone would be on board with him getting cut, just like there is a point where everyone would be on board with him as their QB.

Multiple NFL championships would be the minimum it would take for everyone to be on board with him as our QB. We win one championship and I'm certain that some will say we won in spite of Cousins not because of him. Whatever. This has to stop.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:14 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:57 am
I will say the same thing I said to PHP. Go back and look at your response to my original post that was just a disagreement and stats supporting my opinion.

My original tactic was to use facts and reason, and it was met with attacks, snark and arrogance.

I would disagree with your assessment of the situation. You cherry pick stats and then find a way to twist them into how bad Cousins is. You argue that since he hasn't won a championship that makes him not good enough. He's only been with us for 2 years and both of those years he has played well by any objective measure. Yes I have gotten mean to you on occasion and I don't intend to do that with any fellow Vikings fans. Since you like checking stats so much try this stump. Go to any thread that is 5 pages or more and see if you have gotten around to denigrating Cousins on it. This is the Trent Williams thread. No matter the topic just see if you have found a way to turn it to discussion about Cousins and his inadequacy. If you find I'm right about this then consider the possibility that you have a problem in this area.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:45 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:17 am

You don’t just disagree. You do it with sarcasm, button pushing and arrogance. You’ve been called out for it how many times by myself and others and you’ve done what to change that behavior? Nothing. And clearly board members are getting sick of it. Having a few strikes under your belt for getting out of hand in an argument is one thing but when it’s a consistent thing is when it becomes a problem. And given that other members are in agreement, shows me that it is a problem. Just stop with that crap and just have a discussion. People are going to disagree with you, clearly. You don’t need to act the way you do when that happens.

Nope, my original response was just a disagreement and stats that supported my claim. You came back with a bunch of snark and arrogance and I responded in kind. I shouldn't have done that and should have been the bigger man, but the escalation started with you.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:34 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:25 pm
Multiple NFL championships would be the minimum it would take for everyone to be on board with him as our QB. We win one championship and I'm certain that some will say we won in spite of Cousins not because of him. Whatever. This has to stop.

This is exactly what I am talking about. The MN Vikings haven't won a SB ever, but Cousins leads them to one and people still hate him?

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:46 pm

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:45 am
Nope, my original response was just a disagreement and stats that supported my claim. You came back with a bunch of snark and arrogance and I responded in kind. I shouldn't have done that and should have been the bigger man, but the escalation started with you.

You keep telling yourself that. Whatever makes you feel better. But the fact that you’ve now gone back and forth with me, BHV, VV, Kapp and Rhodes Closed all in one thread shows that there is one common denominator in all of this. You’ve just argued with 5 different members in two pages. How’s that for statistics and cold hard facts? That shows what you’re doing and how you’re acting is causing problems on this board. Members including myself have brought this up to you many times and you refuse to listen to anyone, instead you continue to argue with them. So please, don’t try and pull the “I’m the victim” card with me or anyone on here for that matter because it won’t get you anywhere. Just learn and move on

Texas Vike wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:56 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:20 am

I would love to be a fly on the wall right now and know what the discussion is regarding Williams when it comes to our front office and theirs. Knowing that there is a lot of interest on our part and not seeing a single thing on it is driving me crazy.

You guys probably watch more NFL football than I do. I really only have time for the Vikings, and I watch TCU and UT games on Saturdays.

Do any of you who are pining for Williams have any reservations about his injury history and age? He seems like a risky investment, especially with the inability to give him a thorough physical with all the scrutiny that the process entails, due to COVID. How many more years do you think he has in the tank? And how likely is it, in your opinion, that he makes it through an entire season?

I'll hang up and listen

Bowhunting Viking wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:37 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:14 am
I would disagree with your assessment of the situation. You cherry pick stats and then find a way to twist them into how bad Cousins is. You argue that since he hasn't won a championship that makes him not good enough. He's only been with us for 2 years and both of those years he has played well by any objective measure. Yes I have gotten mean to you on occasion and I don't intend to do that with any fellow Vikings fans. Since you like checking stats so much try this stump. Go to any thread that is 5 pages or more and see if you have gotten around to denigrating Cousins on it. This is the Trent Williams thread. No matter the topic just see if you have found a way to turn it to discussion about Cousins and his inadequacy. If you find I'm right about this then consider the possibility that you have a problem in this area.

Stump you took it as a personal attack from me. That's something I don't do to people here. So i will man up and say sorry for that.
Now this isn't a personal attack. It's a true observation from 1 member, me , to another , you. Man to man. And form what I've seen not just in the past few pages of this thread, but in SO MANY threads , and not between you and I but between you and several other members. And to be honest I will honestly tell you there have been a few times that I have recieved PMs from members on a few occasions I said something to you and then apologized, and they took the time to PM me to say there was no reason for me to feel bad and apologize because the sirr if stuff I felt bad about happens alot in discussions with you. Then as time went on I did see it with my own eyes.
I've sat back and watched it happen many times, and whether u want to admit it or not you do come across as condescending, confrontational and arrogant alot of times. And the majority times it is when you turn the conversation , regardless of the subject, into one of you Cousins bashing diatribes.
Sorry but Viking Victorious JUST NAILED IT completely. Just admit it, you cut stand the guy, you hate he is our QB, you dont feel he will ever win is a SB and if u had ur way he would be gone. Ok... we ALL GET IT OK.
So , just realize that you have beat that dead horse narrative for SO long that most people are just plain sick of it.
So , I will admit maybe I came across as a smart #### this morning. If u search my posts it's rare for me. So for that, I will say Hey I was Wrong. I will man up.
But I DO 100% in fact know, because I have physically sat over steaks, BBQ Ribs, Prime Rib and craft beers and have heard a player who spent damn near every snap of Cousins career in Washington (except when Kory was injured or when he retired right before Kirk's last season in Washington ). I know the respect that he had in him has a teammate, leader, human and friend, as well as the rest of the line. I also know of the EXACT opposite feeling that RG3 that he earned from theses guys.
#2, I also know due this inside info that if William's has his way he wants to be a Viking and sees it as his best opportunity. I also believe the words that he former teammate but most importantly his friend that this is the healthiest he has been inside time due to the rest and the improved workout and dietary regimen he has been on for the past few years.
To finish, I will step out again and say if I crossed the line today, I will admit that I did and give you my full apology. Wholeheartedly. But I hope that you will also go back, re read sole of ur posts, statements and replies. I hope you will also be able to identify your faults and realize that there have been many times where you have crossed the line, made a personal attack or tried to turn your fault into someone elses, and maybe you will admit your fault and offer an apology. And if you won't bring urself to muster an apology , I would hope that you will be able to identify the fact that there have been times where you were the source of the friction that was caused.
None of us our perfect and we all have our bad moments. I admit I do, have and will again.
I hope you can being yourself to do the same.
But I believe in always trying to conclude on a positive and constructive position. So met me do that by saying, and zi mean this 100%, that I have witnessed you bring sine excellent and knowledgeable posts to this board, and have had more than a few laughs. I hope that THESE are the interactions that we will enjoy from here on out.
My dad always we said we all have 2 things. 1 #### and 1 bellybutton. The bellybutton comes when we make our 1st mistake and the #### is there to remind us to sometimes look in the mirror at ourselves.. and try to remember that sometimes it's ok to be the bellybutton and learn from it, but always try your best to learn to NOT be the ####.
So Stumphunter , whatta ya say??

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:48 pm

Bowhunting Viking wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:37 pm

Stump you took it as a personal attack from me. That's something I don't do to people here. So i will man up and say sorry for that.
Now this isn't a personal attack. It's a true observation from 1 member, me , to another , you. Man to man. And form what I've seen not just in the past few pages of this thread, but in SO MANY threads , and not between you and I but between you and several other members. And to be honest I will honestly tell you there have been a few times that I have recieved PMs from members on a few occasions I said something to you and then apologized, and they took the time to PM me to say there was no reason for me to feel bad and apologize because the sirr if stuff I felt bad about happens alot in discussions with you. Then as time went on I did see it with my own eyes.
I've sat back and watched it happen many times, and whether u want to admit it or not you do come across as condescending, confrontational and arrogant alot of times. And the majority times it is when you turn the conversation , regardless of the subject, into one of you Cousins bashing diatribes.
Sorry but Viking Victorious JUST NAILED IT completely. Just admit it, you cut stand the guy, you hate he is our QB, you dont feel he will ever win is a SB and if u had ur way he would be gone. Ok... we ALL GET IT OK.
So , just realize that you have beat that dead horse narrative for SO long that most people are just plain sick of it.
So , I will admit maybe I came across as a smart #### this morning. If u search my posts it's rare for me. So for that, I will say Hey I was Wrong. I will man up.
But I DO 100% in fact know, because I have physically sat over steaks, BBQ Ribs, Prime Rib and craft beers and have heard a player who spent damn near every snap of Cousins career in Washington (except when Kory was injured or when he retired right before Kirk's last season in Washington ). I know the respect that he had in him has a teammate, leader, human and friend, as well as the rest of the line. I also know of the EXACT opposite feeling that RG3 that he earned from theses guys.
#2, I also know due this inside info that if William's has his way he wants to be a Viking and sees it as his best opportunity. I also believe the words that he former teammate but most importantly his friend that this is the healthiest he has been inside time due to the rest and the improved workout and dietary regimen he has been on for the past few years.
To finish, I will step out again and say if I crossed the line today, I will admit that I did and give you my full apology. Wholeheartedly. But I hope that you will also go back, re read sole of ur posts, statements and replies. I hope you will also be able to identify your faults and realize that there have been many times where you have crossed the line, made a personal attack or tried to turn your fault into someone elses, and maybe you will admit your fault and offer an apology. And if you won't bring urself to muster an apology , I would hope that you will be able to identify the fact that there have been times where you were the source of the friction that was caused.
None of us our perfect and we all have our bad moments. I admit I do, have and will again.
I hope you can being yourself to do the same.
But I believe in always trying to conclude on a positive and constructive position. So met me do that by saying, and zi mean this 100%, that I have witnessed you bring sine excellent and knowledgeable posts to this board, and have had more than a few laughs. I hope that THESE are the interactions that we will enjoy from here on out.
My dad always we said we all have 2 things. 1 #### and 1 bellybutton. The bellybutton comes when we make our 1st mistake and the #### is there to remind us to sometimes look in the mirror at ourselves.. and try to remember that sometimes it's ok to be the bellybutton and learn from it, but always try your best to learn to NOT be the ####.
So Stumphunter , whatta ya say??

Just stay away from the wild hyperbole and stick with arguing the actual points made and I am good.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:40 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:46 pm

You keep telling yourself that. Whatever makes you feel better. But the fact that you’ve now gone back and forth with me, BHV, VV, Kapp and Rhodes Closed all in one thread shows that there is one common denominator in all of this. You’ve just argued with 5 different members in two pages. How’s that for statistics and cold hard facts? That shows what you’re doing and how you’re acting is causing problems on this board. Members including myself have brought this up to you many times and you refuse to listen to anyone, instead you continue to argue with them. So please, don’t try and pull the “I’m the victim” card with me or anyone on here for that matter because it won’t get you anywhere. Just learn and move on

It is literally right there in black and white...grey and blue. I responded to a post that you had nothing to do with, and you went on the attack because you don't like the stat I posted.

I do not feel like a victim at all in this. I find it amusing and very enlightening.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:22 pm

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:40 pm

It is literally right there in black and white...grey and blue. I responded to a post that you had nothing to do with, and you went on the attack because you don't like the stat I posted.

I do not feel like a victim at all in this. I find it amusing and very enlightening.

I went on the attack huh? Last I checked, you aren’t the only one allowed to post stats on here. I said it was a flawed stat and went into why by posting statistics that proved it. You think that by saying Kirk cousins “held the ball longer than any QB” 4,582 times on this board it’s going to eventually change someone’s mind. It’s not. Like you’ve posted it an absurd amount, I repeat the same statistics and this is how you act in return. We’ve been down this road over and over and you continue to want to push your point like you’re proving something. Bottom line is, posting stats to prove your “on the surface” argument wrong doesn’t mean I’m attacking you. I’m just proving you and your flawed stat wrong. Nobody “attacked” you so don’t even try going down that road.

This situation reminds me of one I’ve seen many times. You’re starting to remind me of a kid that runs home and cries to his mom that he’s getting bullied at school. But come to find out, that kid himself is the one that’s egging on and trolling the kid he claims is bullying him. From a school teachers point of view, that’s exactly what I feel like I’m dealing with.

Like I said, 5 members in two pages. Stop being the problem and fix the problem. For everyone’s sake. So many people have asked you to just stop with the crap. Stop fighting it, we don’t need anymore responses, just stop. Learn from this and move on so we can all get back on topic which is Trent Williams. Not Kirk cousins

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:33 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:22 pm

I went on the attack huh? Last I checked, you aren’t the only one allowed to post stats on here. I said it was a flawed stat and went into why by posting statistics that proved it. You think that by saying Kirk cousins “held the ball longer than any QB” 4,582 times on this board it’s going to eventually change someone’s mind. It’s not. Like you’ve posted it an absurd amount, I repeat the same statistics and this is how you act in return. We’ve been down this road over and over and you continue to want to push your point like you’re proving something. Bottom line is, posting stats to prove your “on the surface” argument wrong doesn’t mean I’m attacking you. I’m just proving you and your flawed stat wrong. Nobody “attacked” you so don’t even try going down that road.

This situation reminds me of one I’ve seen many times. You’re starting to remind me of a kid that runs home and cries to his mom that he’s getting bullied at school. But come to find out, that kid himself is the one that’s egging on and trolling the kid he claims is bullying him. From a school teachers point of view, that’s exactly what I feel like I’m dealing with.

Like I said, 5 members in two pages. Stop being the problem and fix the problem. For everyone’s sake. So many people have asked you to just stop with the crap. Stop fighting it, we don’t need anymore responses, just stop. Learn from this and move on so we can all get back on topic which is Trent Williams. Not Kirk cousins

Let me see if I got the rules straight here.

If I post a stat that the NFL feels is important enough to include in their NextGen stats, that directly contradicts what someone says about the offensive line, in a thread about upgrading the offensive line, that is being a part of the problem.

If I point out that the snark and arrogance did not start with me, but in fact began with you and VV, I am claiming that I was bullied. Not giving an explanation why things got heated, I am simply playing the victim.

If I say the offensive line wasn't so horrible last year that a very good QB couldn't have hid some of its flaws, I am being super negative and unrealistic and ruining the discussion.

Can we get these added to the board rules? It is very confusing.

I thought you were done btw?