Vikings Message Board.Com

PurpleKoolaid wrote:Hopefully, after today, the next step for even the biggest fan/coach on the Vikings staff, is working out a way to get anything for him. We should be able to get a 5th right? He is more of a liability to us now. Time for Spielman to suck down his pride and admit the mistake of wasting a 12th overall pick on the bum. Cut ties with him, let Cassel take over ( he isn't worse then Ponder, even Ponder good plays were a better play by the WR then a throw. Why waste the year on a this scrub again?

Not a clue, some people think there is still that 0.00009% chance he turns into a QB that can win us a superbowl. I for one believe in percentages and numbers, doesn't take a Football pro to see Ponder doesn't equal success or wins.

S197 wrote:I'll be a Vikings fan until the day they die, no matter who is behind center. I can't imagine cheering for another team under any circumstances.

Same here. But it is tiring, and hard on the heart, to have such poor play, year after year, from the most important position. I didn't think I would make it through TJoke and McNabb, I wont make it with a year more of Ponder.

allday1991 wrote:I was one of the "negative" people that thought we should of already been actively looking for a replacement at QB, but the Viking staff along with some fans on here seemed to be happy to give Ponder another season to torture us.

I don't think anybody is happy to see poor performances.

My take on Ponder has always been "wait and see" and that's still my take. I haven't had a chance to see most of today's performance but it sounds like it was the usual erratic mix of good and bad. I don't think there are many, if any, fans here who have been convinced that Ponder deserves to be the Vikings QB beyond this season or even that he's a good answer for this season. To me, he's a player who has shown that he can be good and who has shown that he can be awful and I want to see if he develops into a consistently good player. If he can't, I'll have no problem with the team moving on to another QB. In fact, I'll want them to move on. My primary interest in seeing Ponder succeed is that it's the best scenario for the Vikings.

There seems to be a common misperception that anyone who defends Ponder is automatically happy or satisfied with his performance to date and I don't think that's the case. It's certainly not true for me. More often than not, I defend him because I think a lot of the criticism directed his way is extreme and/or irrational. I have no problem with anyone pointing out his shortcomings, it's the denial that he's done anything well, the extreme nature of the criticism that bugs me.

As for whatever happened today, I know he made some good plays because I saw them and I know he made some bad ones because I heard them on the radio broadcast. It's just one game and that won't define his season. How he performs overall will define his season and determine his future. I intend to sit back and see how it plays out (since we have no choice in the matter anyway).

Well Jim, the 'good plays' you think Ponder made, wearnt that good. The receptions were. Simpson made some outstanding catches, but Ponder made his usual INACCURATE throws. He made his usual 1 read and throw, or use the Happy feet. In fact, nothing has changed, it was business as usual for Ponder. And the a lot of the rest of the team followed his leadership, and played 'underaverage' as well. I just made up that word.

Mothman wrote: I don't think anybody is happy to see poor performances.

My take on Ponder has always been "wait and see" and that's still my take. I haven't had a chance to see most of today's performance but it sounds like it was the usual erratic mix of good and bad. I don't think there are many, if any, fans here who have been convinced that Ponder deserves to be the Vikings QB beyond this season or even that he's a good answer for this season. To me, he's a player who has shown that he can be good and who has shown that he can be awful and I want to see if he develops into a consistently good player. If he can't, I'll have no problem with the team moving on to another QB. In fact, I'll want them to move on. My primary interest in seeing Ponder succeed is that it's the best scenario for the Vikings.

There seems to be a common misperception that anyone who defends Ponder is automatically happy or satisfied with his performance to date and I don't think that's the case. It's certainly not true for me. More often than not, I defend him because I think a lot of the criticism directed his way is extreme and/or irrational. I have no problem with anyone pointing out his shortcomings, it's the denial that he's done anything well, the extreme nature of the criticism that bugs me.

As for whatever happened today, I know he made some good plays because I saw them and I know he made some bad ones because I heard them on the radio broadcast. It's just one game and that won't define his season. How he performs overall will define his season and determine his future. I intend to sit back and see how it plays out (since we have no choice in the matter anyway).

I don't see the good in Ponder game, I am sure a few people will watch the game and say he hit Simpson on a good deep route twice, where as I see on the one deep route he clearly overthrown Simpson (witch should of been catch in stride and ran in) and forces him to make a circus catch, some people see it as Ponder hitting a good deep ball, I see it as Ponder making an inaccurate throw and forcing the WR to make a hard catch, I don't see how those are considered good plays or how you give Ponder credit for them, it should of been a touchdown but instead is only a catch for gain, and this is all we have seen since he has started, why will it change all of a sudden?

The next step for Christian Ponder is....Hopefully over the ledge.

PurpleKoolaid wrote:Well Jim, the 'good plays' you think Ponder made, wearnt that good. The receptions were. Simpson made some outstanding catches, but Ponder made his usual INACCURATE throws. He made his usual 1 read and throw, or use the Happy feet. In fact, nothing has changed, it was business as usual for Ponder. And the a lot of the rest of the team followed his leadership, and played 'underaverage' as well. I just made up that word.

*sigh* Unfortunately, he's right about this.

The commentators were criticizing Ponder on most of the completions. It was that bad.

PurpleKoolaid wrote:Well Jim, the 'good plays' you think Ponder made, wearnt that good. The receptions were. Simpson made some outstanding catches, but Ponder made his usual INACCURATE throws. He made his usual 1 read and throw, or use the Happy feet. In fact, nothing has changed, it was business as usual for Ponder. And the a lot of the rest of the team followed his leadership, and played 'underaverage' as well. I just made up that word.

You beat me to my point, I agree with you, I don't see Ponder making those good plays, it is his WR making it for him and he somehow gets the credit.

Mothman wrote:
There seems to be a common misperception that anyone who defends Ponder is automatically happy or satisfied with his performance to date and I don't think that's the case. It's certainly not true for me. More often than not, I defend him because I think a lot of the criticism directed his way is extreme and/or irrational. I have no problem with anyone pointing out his shortcomings, it's the denial that he's done anything well, the extreme nature of the criticism that bugs me.

.

Well put.

If you are able to watch the game, you'll see very few positives through and through our roster. Ponder was bad, our O-line could not handle DET's front four, Stafford moved his O at will, our O showed little to no creativity. It was a grim affair and we were only really in it because of Peterson's first run and some fortunate circumstances early. Detroit controlled the game and deserved to win by more than 10.

Harrison Smith had some great hits and Jerome Simpson was surprisingly solid. Other than that, we looked terrible.

Texas Vike wrote: Well put.

If you are able to watch the game, you'll see very few positives through and through our roster. Ponder was bad, our O-line could not handle DET's front four, Stafford moved his O at will, our O showed little to no creativity. It was a grim affair and we were only really in it because of Peterson's first run and some fortunate circumstances early. Detroit controlled the game and deserved to win by more than 10.

Harrison Smith had some great hits and Jerome Simpson was surprisingly solid. Other than that, we looked terrible.

Great sum-up of the game. While I have really lost patience with Ponder, it is the vitriolic, highly charged criticism that always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Ponder did have a monumentally bad game, there were a smattering of Ponder positives. But this team is far from Super Bowl ready.

allday1991 wrote:You beat me to my point, I agree with you, I don't see Ponder making those good plays, it is his WR making it for him and he somehow gets the credit.

LOL! You're posting exactly the kind of criticism I was talking about earlier. It's not that I'm a big Ponder fan. It's just this refusal on the part of many fans to give him credit for anything that I find maddening. It's not as maddening as his inconsistency but it's just a weird defiance of the facts. It's as if it's not enough to be unsatisfied or even angry about his performances, any achievement, no matter how small, must be denied! It reminds me of the way the later Egyptian Pharaohs tried to wipe the name of the Pharaoh Akhenaten from history. Good plays must be stricken from the record! Only the bad shall remain.

I saw enough of the game on Red Zone to know Ponder made at least some good throws. The throws to Rudolph and Simpson on the second TD drive were both nice, as was the simple little sidearm throw to Peterson for a TD. The latter was nothing special but it was still a good play in the face of pressure.

I saw a bad throw or two as well and I know there are more to come when I watch the game in it's entirety.

Texas Vike wrote: Well put.

If you are able to watch the game, you'll see very few positives through and through our roster. Ponder was bad, our O-line could not handle DET's front four, Stafford moved his O at will, our O showed little to no creativity. It was a grim affair and we were only really in it because of Peterson's first run and some fortunate circumstances early. Detroit controlled the game and deserved to win by more than 10.

Harrison Smith had some great hits and Jerome Simpson was surprisingly solid. Other than that, we looked terrible.

Ponders inaccurate, rarely goes through more than his first read, is quick to leave the pocket, often runs to his left despite throwing with his right, and looks confused half the time, anyone who has been watching him play the last two seasons and this game against the lions know this is exactly what you see and is not extreme or irrational.

not worth it.

Texas Vike wrote:Well put.

If you are able to watch the game, you'll see very few positives through and through our roster. Ponder was bad, our O-line could not handle DET's front four, Stafford moved his O at will, our O showed little to no creativity. It was a grim affair and we were only really in it because of Peterson's first run and some fortunate circumstances early. Detroit controlled the game and deserved to win by more than 10.

That was my perception listening to the radio broadcast. I'll be able to see it tomorrow on NFL.com.

Harrison Smith had some great hits and Jerome Simpson was surprisingly solid. Other than that, we looked terrible.

It sounded like they went in with a game plan committed to containing Johnson and didn't do enough to account for Reggie Bush. That was something I feared going into this game. I also mentioned a few days ago that our o-line might be a big determining factor in this one and it sounds like they got whipped.

Hopefully, they'll put forth a much better effort next week.

Mothman wrote: I saw enough of the game on Red Zone to know Ponder made at least some good throws. The throws to Rudolph and Simpson on the second TD drive were both nice, as was the simple little sidearm throw to Peterson for a TD.

No offence but are you watching the game or radio? because what I saw from the second TD drive where he hit Simpson should of been caught in stride but was overthrown and barely caught, how is that a good throw? lol