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dead_poet wrote: Exhibit A

Yeah, he would have been an interesting pick instead of Waynes this year.

So what's gotten into Teddy then? Do Norv and Zim just preach ball control and conservative play to him or is it that he doesn't have a target that he trusts like he did Parker? First thing I noticed is that he had a clean pocket on a lot of those throws!

I wish we would start Diggs and Johnson. In terms of sheer production per target, both of of those guys destroy Wallace this year:

Diggs: 73 targets for 638 yards. 8.7 yards per target.
Johnson: 13 targets (what!?) for 127 yards. 9.8 yards per target.
Wright: 41 targets for 332 yards. 8.1 yards per target.
Wallace: 60 targets for 403 yards. 6.7 yards per target.

Sure, we can say Teddy has thrown some bad passes to Wallace, but maybe that's the point? They don't have a good connection. No rapport. The other 3 guys are getting way more out of those same throws from Teddy.

TSonn wrote:I wish we would start Diggs and Johnson. In terms of sheer production per target, both of of those guys destroy Wallace this year:

Diggs: 73 targets for 638 yards. 8.7 yards per target.
Johnson: 13 targets (what!?) for 127 yards. 9.8 yards per target.
Wright: 41 targets for 332 yards. 8.1 yards per target.
Wallace: 60 targets for 403 yards. 6.7 yards per target.

Sure, we can say Teddy has thrown some bad passes to Wallace, but maybe that's the point? They don't have a good connection. No repiore. The other 3 guys are getting way more out of those same throws from Teddy.

CJ, 13 targets? That was our best WR last year !!! He didn't forget how to get open.
That's mind boggling.

Texas Vike wrote:
Yeah, he would have been an interesting pick instead of Waynes this year.

So what's gotten into Teddy then? Do Norv and Zim just preach ball control and conservative play to him or is it that he doesn't have a target that he trusts like he did Parker? First thing I noticed is that he had a clean pocket on a lot of those throws!

Crazy. It's almost as if decent pass protection benefits the quarterback and offense as a whole!

I think bad protection and lack of a receiver that can win consistently on contested balls absolutely factors in. As does a run-first offense.

dead_poet wrote:Crazy. It's almost as if decent pass protection benefits the quarterback and offense as a whole!

I think bad protection and lack of a receiver that can win consistently on contested balls absolutely factors in. As does a run-first offense.

Agreed. I think also not involving Johnson and Patterson plus not having an offensive coordinator that can get the most out of the skill talent figures in as well.

I mean, I feel like a good portion of us have recognized that Teddy has been placed in a pretty poor situation for a while.

On one hand, I would say that none of this is ground breaking news. On the other, I'm still waiting for somebody to say that despite poor O-line play, limited separation by his WRs, at times appalling game planning, and lack of much size at the WR position, Teddy should be overcoming this because Adrian.

losperros wrote: Agreed. I think also not involving Johnson and Patterson plus not having an offensive coordinator that can get the most out of the skill talent figures in as well.

This x 10

I truly hope that Zim makes an OC change in the off season. I can understand not wanting to do it mid season.....especially when we were winning but Turner has to go. I'd love to see joint interviews with Turner and Zim.....just to see if we can detect even the slightest amount of friction, disagreement, etc. Hope that Zims drive to produce a championship caliber team overrides any loyalties to Turner as he is clearly holding back our offense.

My guess is Norv will get another year assuming we don't botch this thing completely and miss the playoffs, mainly due to an absolutely abysmal offense, then all bets are off.

It's not what I want to happen because I'd rather start putting the right system and guys around Teddy as soon as possible but when a team has a scape goat for it's poor performances like they currently have with the O-line they'll usually err on the side of caution and rather then blow it up they'll want to see what it looks like with a few more pieces in place.

Then when it still isn't working they'll have to take another look at it and decide if they want to keep Teddy or find a new OC. bleh

Yeah, I know that Zulgad can be weird. But he's hit the target on this one:

http://www.1500espn.com/news/2015/12/zu ... otten-man/

It's Zulgad asking where the heck is Charles Johnson?

losperros wrote:Yeah, I know that Zulgad can be weird. But he's hit the target on this one:

http://www.1500espn.com/news/2015/12/zu ... otten-man/

It's Zulgad asking where the heck is Charles Johnson?

Thanks, Craig.

Zulgad wrote:

Putting Wallace on the bench and playing Johnson is a no-brainer, unless there is something going on with Johnson that the Vikings are hiding.

That might be worth a try but I don't think I'd call it a no-brainer.

Johnson definitely has something to offer. He had a couple of very strong games last year but, much like Diggs this year, once defenses took notice of him his production leveled off.

Can a receiver truly thrive in this current Vikings offense? I wonder... Jennings probably came closest but I wouldn't say he thrived. Wallace has struggled more than he has elsewhere. Patterson's career, which looked promising, took a nosedive. Johnson and Diggs both flashed and now the former's riding the pine and the latter has 8 catches for 64 yards over his last 3 performances.

The Vikes are throwing to the TEs more. I'm sure that's a factor here. Bridgewater is too. I don't see him as the victim of circumstance many here do.

Then there's Turner ... plenty has been said abut him already.

I don't have solid answers. As we keep saying, the passing offense is dysfunctional.

autobon7 wrote:I truly hope that Zim makes an OC change in the off season. I can understand not wanting to do it mid season.....especially when we were winning but Turner has to go. I'd love to see joint interviews with Turner and Zim.....just to see if we can detect even the slightest amount of friction, disagreement, etc. Hope that Zims drive to produce a championship caliber team overrides any loyalties to Turner as he is clearly holding back our offense.

Man, that would be a longshot IMO.

Not that I don't agree with you. But Zimmer and Turner go WAY back.

Maybe we'll get lucky and somebody will actually think Norv is still head coaching material.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Man, that would be a longshot IMO.

Not that I don't agree with you. But Zimmer and Turner go WAY back.

Maybe we'll get lucky and somebody will actually think Norv is still head coaching material.

Maybe McCarthy will retire and Green Bay will hire Turner as their HC.

You gotta admit that's a pleasant thought.

Mothman wrote: That might be worth a try but I don't think I'd call it a no-brainer.

But that's just it. The Vikings need to try to do something. As it is, Wallace isn't getting it done, even if it's not his fault. Is Johnson better? Maybe not anywhere else but with Turner's offense with the Vikings. What the heck? Why not give it a shot?

Mothman wrote:I don't have solid answers. As we keep saying, the passing offense is dysfunctional.

Absolutely correct. I feel the same way.

losperros wrote:But that's just it. The Vikings need to try to do something. As it is, Wallace isn't getting it done, even if it's not his fault. Is Johnson better? Maybe not anywhere else but with Turner's offense with the Vikings. What the heck? Why not give it a shot?

I hear you. We've been saying the same thing about Patterson for what seems like forever now.

Absolutely correct. I feel the same way.

Sometimes I wonder if the Vikes even think it's a problem.