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Demi wrote: That was because of the Packers depth at WR, not because of Nelson. They had two productive veteran receivers, the Vikings had none last season. Patterson was given a starting job and still couldn't produce. Nelson also didn't lose his starting job to a practice squad player from another team. Nelson started as many games in his first three years as Patterson did in his first. You think if Nelson had started 13 games his first two seasons he wouldn't have had the numbers Patterson did? I don't remember ever hearing about mystical WR gurus and hell's trainers trying to teach Nelson how to play the game after his second season. I don't remember the "B" word ever being brought up about him. There's no comparison at all between the two, or their situations.

I think Patterson is moving into Ponder territory when people start bringing up Pro Bowlers to compare him to. Because "maybe". Find a receiver who was given a starting role after being drafted in the first round, struggled to play the position, was benched for a no one from another teams practice squad his second season, and didn't become a bust.

So choose another example. Nelson was just a convenient choice made for what should be obvious reasons and FAR from the main point.

Oh, and please, by all means, remind us another 150 times that Johnson was a former practice squad player (as if they never, ever amount to anything) and you really can't use the phrase "mystical WR guru" enough either.

Demi wrote: That was because of the Packers depth at WR, not because of Nelson. They had two productive veteran receivers, the Vikings had none last season. Patterson was given a starting job and still couldn't produce. Nelson also didn't lose his starting job to a practice squad player from another team. Nelson started as many games in his first three years as Patterson did in his first. You think if Nelson had started 13 games his first two seasons he wouldn't have had the numbers Patterson did? I don't remember ever hearing about mystical WR gurus and hell's trainers trying to teach Nelson how to play the game after his second season. I don't remember the "B" word ever being brought up about him. There's no comparison at all between the two, or their situations.

I think Patterson is moving into Ponder territory when people start bringing up Pro Bowlers to compare him to. Because "maybe". Find a receiver who was given a starting role after being drafted in the first round, struggled to play the position, was benched for a no one from another teams practice squad his second season, and didn't become a bust.

I agree, good post Demi, it's way too apples and oranges to compare Patterson (full time every down starter) to Nelson who played limited snaps as the 3rd string WR.

It's weird too how you never hear about "normal" players needing special off season training / conditioning where the span of an entire football season isn't enough time for someone to learn an offense or make progress with the coaches. I'm not saying seeking extra training or coaching is a bad thing, but it does kind of signal somethings "wrong" imo and conventional tactics aren't going to be enough to fix it.

I knew he was a project coming in and I knew it would take time for him to develop but I think what's really bothersome is how after 2 years he's not much closer to being a complete WR. I knew he had a lot to learn to get where we need him to be but now I think learning, period, might be his problem.

Jordysghost wrote:Nice post, and I agree on a couple points. And, just for the record, I wouldn't be surprised at all if CP was able to take his obvious raw ability and become good player, i guess, that isn't my expectation, but it wouldn't shock me by any means.

I guess I feel the way I do, because, and maybe I have gotten the wrong impression, idk, Im sure you guys watch more Vikes games then I do, but the guy just looks lost when I see him play, his route running is obviously not where it needs to be at this point, and he just has a certain way of making himself look not nearly as game breaking as he truly could/will be .

He had a hip injury last year that slowed him down for a while (and definitely in the game at Lambeau, which is probably one of the games where you saw him) but I think he probably was a bit lost at times, trying too hard to process responsibilities in a new system and take in everything his coaches were telling him about playing the position properly. I'm guessing he was thinking more than reacting and that's less than ideal for an athlete. My hope is that once he gets more comfortable with the system and as the nuances of route-running become more second nature to him, his natural ability will shine.

And, DAMN 9 TDs as a rookie? I was certainly not aware of that, thanks for sharing.

You're welcome. He has serious big play ability. They need to find more ways to bring it out.

mondry wrote:I agree, good post Demi, it's way too apples and oranges to compare Patterson (full time every down starter) to Nelson who played limited snaps as the 3rd string WR.

It's weird too how you never hear about "normal" players needing special off season training / conditioning where the span of an entire football season isn't enough time for someone to learn an offense or make progress with the coaches. I'm not saying seeking extra training or coaching is a bad thing, but it does kind of signal somethings "wrong" imo and conventional tactics aren't going to be enough to fix it.

I think it has more to do with how much attention one pays to football news in general because if you pay enough attention, there are stories about "normal" players seeking special offseason training from coaches other than those on their team. For example, Peyton and Eli Manning have been doing it for years:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/201 ... ing/28982/

http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2 ... U-xutpVhBc

The Mannings aren't unique in this sense. It's not unusual for current players who want to improve to seek out former players, work out with other current players or work with an old coach or a "guru" (not of the mystical variety) during the offseason.

As far as players doing extra in the offseason..... if we weren't Vikes fans, chances are we would have no idea want Patterson is doing this off season.

Peterson denied ever having a fumble problem...but he definitely worked on it sometime after the saints game and it seems to be resolved.

Lynn Swann and Jerry Rice both did ballet/dance at times in offseasons to enhance their agility and so on.


here's a good read on some off Rice's off season routine:

http://jamesclear.com/jerry-rice

Most remarkable were his six-days-a-week off-season workouts, which he conducted entirely on his own. Mornings were devoted to cardiovascular work, running a hilly five-mile trail; he would reportedly run ten forty-meter wind sprints up the steepest part. In the afternoons he did equally strenuous weight training. These workouts became legendary as the most demanding in the league, and other players would sometimes join Rice just to see what it was like. Some of them got sick before the day was over.

If CP is pushing himself in a similar fashion, it will only help him.

He has proven to be somewhat disappointing, thus far, in terms of where he was selected and what was given up to get him....but as far as his actual capacity vs rawness?...we don't know.

He has a great deal of potential obviously:
NFL records

Longest kickoff return touchdown: 109 yards (October 27, 2013)
The first NFL player to have a 100-yard kickoff return touchdown, a 75-yard touchdown catch, and a 50-yard rushing touchdown in the same season. (2013)

Minnesota Vikings franchise records

First Vikings wide receiver to rush for 100 yards in a game: 102 yards (September 7, 2014)[20]
Longest rushing TD by a wide receiver: 67 yards (September 7, 2014)[20]
Most kickoff return yards in a season: 1,393 (2013)
Most kickoff return yards in a season by a rookie: 1,393 (2013)
Highest kick return average in a season: 32.4 (2013)
Highest kick return average in a career: 29.6 (2013-present)
Most kickoff return touchdowns in a season: 2 (2013) (tied with Percy Harvin)[21]
Longest play by a Viking: 109 yards (October 27, 2013)



I think it's great that he's aware that he could get lost in the shuffle with the drafting of Diggs and the signing of Wallace.

Pretty sad when a first round draft pick (and more then that, Rick gave WAY too much for the pick), and is a WR, is known for his KR potential. Sometimes, like with Twill, we have to realize we made a bad pick. And its up to Norv and Rick to figure out how much more play time CP should get to prove himself, before they give his reps to someone else. We certainly dont need our #1-#3 WR out there solely because he can rush, if we can get the ball in his hands.

PurpleKoolaid wrote:Pretty sad when a first round draft pick (and more then that, Rick gave WAY too much for the pick), and is a WR, is known for his KR potential.

Its just not that big of a deal. He was raw coming out, he's a great athlete, its not surprising or upsetting that he comes out of the gate strong returning kicks.

He struggled last year in his second season. That's a given. I don't know why people are making that into something more than it is.

Let's see what happens this year. If he can learn the position within this offense at even a competent level he has enough athletic ability to be a force. If he doesn't, he'll be a good kick returner and gadget player for a couple more years for the Vikings.

Its too early to tell what will happen. Remember, until last year Sharif Floyd looked pedestrian...Not everyone comes into the league and sets it on fire right off the bat. Patterson has already demonstrated the he has exceptional athletic ability, so he's god a good head start.

PurpleKoolaid wrote:Pretty sad when a first round draft pick (and more then that, Rick gave WAY too much for the pick), and is a WR, is known for his KR potential. Sometimes, like with Twill, we have to realize we made a bad pick. And its up to Norv and Rick to figure out how much more play time CP should get to prove himself, before they give his reps to someone else. We certainly dont need our #1-#3 WR out there solely because he can rush, if we can get the ball in his hands.

I think Patterson's potential upside is worth continuing to work with him and get him reps. I certainly don't think it makes any sense to give up on one of your first round picks while they're still under their rookie deal. He might turn out to not be worth the 1st rounder but he still has value as a kick returner and is at least trying to get better.

Cliff wrote: I think Patterson's potential upside is worth continuing to work with him and get him reps. I certainly don't think it makes any sense to give up on one of your first round picks while they're still under their rookie deal. He might turn out to not be worth the 1st rounder but he still has value as a kick returner and is at least trying to get better.

I agree. Thats why I think he should learn the slot (he certainly hasn't learned any other position). Get the ball in his hands often, but not gimmick rushing plays. Maybe some of the PH plays. And like our former #7, lets know when to dump him and give someone like Diggs a chance. I dont know if Cp is a bust yet, but if can only manage what he did last year, I would say he is, and lets try and get something for him. Other then PH, Rick does not get value for the players we lose.

PurpleKoolaid wrote:Other then PH, Rick does not get value for the players we lose.

Honestly though, which GM does? It's not very easy to sell a player who isn't performing to another team. I know you say "except PH" but that was one hell of a deal.

DK Sweets wrote:Honestly though, which GM does? It's not very easy to sell a player who isn't performing to another team. I know you say "except PH" but that was one hell of a deal.

Yep, almost Hershel Walker type. I was amazed.

PurpleKoolaid wrote: Yep, almost Hershel Walker type. I was amazed.

Is that suppose to be sarcasm?

Nope, it was one of the best deals MN ever got, at least that I can remember. PH was poison at the time. I dont even know if Rick thought he could get that much.

Especially when you consider Seattle unloaded him barely a year later for next to nothing.

Spielman was the better GM on that trade.

Demi wrote: That was because of the Packers depth at WR, not because of Nelson. They had two productive veteran receivers, the Vikings had none last season. Patterson was given a starting job and still couldn't produce. Nelson also didn't lose his starting job to a practice squad player from another team. Nelson started as many games in his first three years as Patterson did in his first. You think if Nelson had started 13 games his first two seasons he wouldn't have had the numbers Patterson did? I don't remember ever hearing about mystical WR gurus and hell's trainers trying to teach Nelson how to play the game after his second season. I don't remember the "B" word ever being brought up about him. There's no comparison at all between the two, or their situations.

I think Patterson is moving into Ponder territory when people start bringing up Pro Bowlers to compare him to. Because "maybe". Find a receiver who was given a starting role after being drafted in the first round, struggled to play the position, was benched for a no one from another teams practice squad his second season, and didn't become a bust.

How about Tim Brown. Maybe not replaced by a practice squad receiver but didn't have over 50 catches or over 750 yards until his 6th season. He turned out pretty good.