Vikings Message Board.Com

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Sep 29, 2025 8:58 am

makila wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 12:39 pm Definitely with the roster as it sits right now. It was a top heavy, win now, roster. Injuries decimated a lot of it and the lack of depth has already shown up. I know teams don't have amazing depth at every position at every level. I get that. I do think poor drafting rears it's head here though.

Kind of at a loss with the season right now. I'd like to find out what exactly JJM is, I don't think anyone is getting a fair shake with the line we had at the end of the game though. It was just horrible.

The signings of Jonathan Allen and Javon Hargrave were supposed to solidify the interior of the DL. So far neither guy has shown up at all. The guys who are showing up are guys like Redmond, Rodriguez, and Rodgers. I'm watching other games throughout the day and on other defenses DBs are jumping routes and making defensive plays on the ball, especially when they are blitzing. Our defensive secondary? Nowhere to be found as Metcalf catches a ball full run and cruises to the endzone. Not sure who was supposed to pick him up but that can't happen. It isn't the first time I've seen that either. On the Vikings defense it's great if a DB is within five yards of a receiver when he catches the ball, pressure throw or not. It's like Flores has his guys playing some hybrid zone off coverage even when he sends extra rushers. And they certainly don't adjust for QBs who like to throw short routes. They were picked apart again yesterday by a quick throw QB.

Dallas Turner, the guy they paid so dearly to move up to draft, shows up mostly because he committed a stupid foul. Otherwise he's the Invisible Man. No pressure on the QB, no stops in the run game, nothing. Complete waste of significant draft capital.

I'm not sure about JJM, but the early returns aren't good. Accuracy and timing are any QBs best friends and McCarthy appears not to socialize with either. He's young and probably is going to be eaten alive by the Browns pass rush next Sunday but he'll get another chance to show he can be the starting QB.

I'm just really pessimistic about the team's chances this year after what we've seen the first four weeks. After the Browns game and the bye the Vikings face a Murder's Row of opponents. All of the teams they will face possess much better offenses than anything they have seen thus far, and if they can't stop the running games of teams like Pittsburgh what will the totals be against teams like the Eagles, Lions and Ravens?

The Wilfs have got to be kicking themselves right now after all the money they invested into this free agent-heavy roster. If this team continues to underperform like this one would have to expect some changes in the front office over the offseason.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 29, 2025 10:08 am Hargrave and Allen are playing much better against the pass than any interior Dlinemen we have had in two seasons, but the problem is that they have been bad against the run for years, and Kwesi knew that when he brought them in.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 29, 2025 10:08 am Turner has improved his pass rushing productivity, but he really couldn't get any worse there than what he was doing last year. Again though, he is just awful against the run and is one of the biggest reasons teams are running all over us. Also, Flores needs to stop using him like AVG, because the dude is really bad in coverage.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 29, 2025 10:08 am This team is on a crash course with becoming the new Detroit Lions, and I am not talking about the past two years Lions, I am talking about the 90s, 00s and 2010s Lions. The talent is getting old, we aren't adding anyone in the draft, and by the time Kwesi is fired the next GM will be starting over on what will amount to an expansion team.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Sep 29, 2025 3:42 pm

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 29, 2025 10:08 am Hargrave and Allen are playing much better against the pass than any interior Dlinemen we have had in two seasons, but the problem is that they have been bad against the run for years, and Kwesi knew that when he brought them in.

Maybe they are playing better against the pass than any interior defensive linemen the Vikings have had in the last two seasons, but they don't seem to be playing better than at least one of the interior defensive linemen on the current team. Jalen Redmond has 3 sacks and 4 TFL while Jonathan Allen hasn't record a sack or a TFL yet and Hargrave has 2 sacks and 2 TFL. Redmond consistently shows up when he's on the field, often pushing the pocket on passing downs and disrupting running plays. I can recall a handful of times I saw either Hargrave or Allen disrupting either type of play.

Your point stands, but right now those guys are very expensive placeholders on the interior defensive line. When I see either one of them lined up I start to expect the offense to get positive yardage no matter what it does.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 29, 2025 10:08 am Turner has improved his pass rushing productivity, but he really couldn't get any worse there than what he was doing last year. Again though, he is just awful against the run and is one of the biggest reasons teams are running all over us. Also, Flores needs to stop using him like AVG, because the dude is really bad in coverage.

Turner has 1 sack and 1 TFL so far despite significant playing time. Hardly the production one would hope for from a 1st round pick they traded a lot to move up to get. I was a bit puzzled when Turner started to fall in the draft the year the Vikings took him, but the more I watch him actually play the more understandable it is. One would think pro scouts would pick up on something like that, and it seems the scouts of the teams that drafted earlier in that draft did pick up on that. Not the Vikings scouts. One wonders why they missed what it appears others saw.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 29, 2025 10:08 am This team is on a crash course with becoming the new Detroit Lions, and I am not talking about the past two years Lions, I am talking about the 90s, 00s and 2010s Lions. The talent is getting old, we aren't adding anyone in the draft, and by the time Kwesi is fired the next GM will be starting over on what will amount to an expansion team.

Consistently failing in the draft has been a hallmark of the Kwesi era as GM, but he seemed able to compensate by making asute moves in free agency. Now it appears he's missing in free agency as well, or at least in terms of the splash free agent signings.

Agree 100% that if the current trends continue the Vikings are destined to become consistent cellar dwellers unless/until they find people who can evaluate and acquire actual talent.

makila wrote: ↑Mon Sep 29, 2025 6:51 pm IMHO, an overlooked aspect of our front office is Grigson, and not in a good way. I watched him fail Andrew Luck immensely, and I worry about him having significant input with KAM.

IIRC, the 1st draft of KAM, they kept Rick's old scouting staff intact. However they did eventually turn the page, correct? We're not still using Rick's old scouting group.. right?

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 29, 2025 10:08 amHargrave and Allen are playing much better against the pass than any interior Dlinemen we have had in two seasons, but the problem is that they have been bad against the run for years, and Kwesi knew that when he brought them in.

Turner has improved his pass rushing productivity, but he really couldn't get any worse there than what he was doing last year. Again though, he is just awful against the run and is one of the biggest reasons teams are running all over us. Also, Flores needs to stop using him like AVG, because the dude is really bad in coverage.

Fries has been underwhelming and has reverted to what he was before his contract year. His PFF grade and pressure rates are almost identical to 2023 when he was JAG.

Kelley isn't staying on the field.

It is looking like Rodgers was the only good FA signing this year, with Mason being another good addition via a trade.

On top of that, all of Kwesi's amazing free agent signings from last year are either hurt or underperforming.

This team is on a crash course with becoming the new Detroit Lions, and I am not talking about the past two years Lions, I am talking about the 90s, 00s and 2010s Lions. The talent is getting old, we aren't adding anyone in the draft, and by the time Kwesi is fired the next GM will be starting over on what will amount to an expansion team.

makila wrote: ↑Mon Sep 29, 2025 6:51 pm IIRC, the 1st draft of KAM, they kept Rick's old scouting staff intact. However they did eventually turn the page, correct? We're not still using Rick's old scouting group.. right?

VikingLord wrote: ↑Wed Oct 01, 2025 9:40 am

makila wrote: ↑Mon Sep 29, 2025 6:51 pm IIRC, the 1st draft of KAM, they kept Rick's old scouting staff intact. However they did eventually turn the page, correct? We're not still using Rick's old scouting group.. right?

I don't know, but I think Spielman had a better track record in the draft than KAM. If they did change out Spielman's old group maybe they should bring them back...

Cliff wrote: ↑Tue Sep 30, 2025 11:27 am That said, so far their results have been mostly winning seasons. Last year was 14 - 3. 2023 they were 7 - 10 but they were also on their 3rd and 4th string QB at times. Cousins didn't have a history of being injured, that was just bad luck. Teams tend to be bad when their starting QB goes down. In 2022 they were 13 - 4. The old Lions never came close to that kind of success.

Cliff wrote: ↑Tue Sep 30, 2025 11:27 am I think it's a little early to start hitting the panic button at 2-2.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Wed Oct 01, 2025 9:40 am

makila wrote: ↑Mon Sep 29, 2025 6:51 pm IIRC, the 1st draft of KAM, they kept Rick's old scouting staff intact. However they did eventually turn the page, correct? We're not still using Rick's old scouting group.. right?

I don't know, but I think Spielman had a better track record in the draft than KAM. If they did change out Spielman's old group maybe they should bring them back...