Offseason Thread

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CharVike
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Re: Offseason Thread

Post by CharVike »

makila wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 10:58 am Good article RE interior offensive line. Includes a mention of the OG that Kapp mentioned. And the point that Cliff, and others have made about the domino effect Darrisaw going out had. I haven't dug into the FA class this year much yet.

Vikings’ collapse vs. Lions, Rams makes need for interior O-line help frustratingly clear
By Alec Lewis
5h ago

EAGAN, Minn. — It’s always wild how quickly an NFL season can end. The train hums for 18 weeks and then screeches to a halt. There is no warning, no alert telling us what’s about to happen. Only the abrupt finality and then the quick shift of the gaze to the future.

This is where the Minnesota Vikings find themselves: marinating in Monday night’s loss and regrouping to prepare for the offseason and opportunities to reshape the team.

The NFL Draft presents one avenue, and Dane Brugler, The Athletic’s draft expert, is already thinking about the options. In his latest mock draft, he projects Iowa running back Kaleb Johnson going to Minnesota with the 24th pick.

Brugler writes that this move makes sense only if the Vikings first fortify the interior of their offensive line in free agency. That’s the correct hierarchy. Before Minnesota considers adding a dynamic running back or even a stalwart defensive tackle, it must fix the three offensive line positions that have plagued the team for years.

“There’s no question,” coach Kevin O’Connell said. “We’ve got to find a way to solidify the interior of the pocket.”

Drafting a guard or center is one option. Alabama’s Tyler Booker could make sense in the first round. However, risk comes with the draft, and the Vikings can no longer afford to take risks with this group. It doesn’t matter if an experienced Sam Darnold is doing the quarterbacking or first-time starter J.J. McCarthy. Space to step up is paramount.

For years, the Vikings have cycled through failed early round picks, converted tackles and everything in between. Many of the names conjure cringes. Remember Joe Berger and Nick Easton? How about Josh Kline and Pat Elflein? Dakota Dozier, Mike Remmers, Oli Udoh, Tom Compton, Alex Boone, Brandon Fusco — the list goes on and on.

The 2024 team began the season with a starting trio of left guard Blake Brandel, center Garrett Bradbury and right guard Ed Ingram. By November, even after the Vikings had replaced Ingram with Dalton Risner, the lack of meaningful growth spurred this story: “Vikings’ middling run game makes it abundantly clear — they need help on the interior OL.”

To be clear, this was apparent even before the season. The Vikings coaches spoke of their faith in Brandel and Ingram, but what other choice did they have? Minnesota had only so much salary-cap space, having absorbed the dead cap hits after the departures of Kirk Cousins and Danielle Hunter. Using the available capital on interior offensive linemen would have meant holes that would need filling on the defensive side.

If the Vikings spent heavily on a guard or center, they likely would have had to do without edge rusher Jonathan Greenard, edge rusher Andrew Van Ginkel, linebacker Blake Cashman and cornerback Stephon Gilmore. Without those four, how many games would the Vikings have won? The Vikings also believed tackles Christian Darrisaw and Brian O’Neill could cover up for some of the interior pressure. That’s mostly what happened until Darrisaw tore his ACL in Week 8.

Acquiring Cam Robinson from the Jacksonville Jaguars provided the Vikings with a path forward, and even that vision mostly held over the back half of the season. Between weeks 10 and 17, Darnold maneuvered the pocket effectively and often overcame the muddiness.

Against the Detroit Lions in Week 18 and the Los Angeles Rams in the wild-card round, however, stunts and atypical blitzes caved in on Darnold. He often tried to sidestep and wiggle his way out the same way he had during his successful stretch, but it was like an action movie in that just when he thought he had uncovered an escape hatch, another blockade surfaced. Darnold was constantly under pressure and got sacked twice in Detroit, and he was taken down an astonishing nine times by the Rams in Arizona.

“It wasn’t good enough,” Risner said Monday night. “As men, sometimes you’ve just got to be able to take (the blame). You can’t always make excuses. We’ve got to take this one.”

Against the Rams, neither the early deficit nor the run blocking helped the pass protection’s cause. The Vikings attempted an outside toss on the first play. Risner could not climb to the second level quickly enough, and Rams linebacker Omar Speights took down running back Aaron Jones for a loss. Minnesota tried to begin the next series with an effective run utilizing double-teams to move interior defenders vertically. But Brandel could not create enough push, and Risner tumbled to the grass, leaving Jones little room to work with.

This was not an outlier, either. Minnesota has averaged 4.0 yards per carry over the past three seasons, ranking 29th in the NFL. The Vikings are averaging 1.30 yards before contact on those carries, 24th in the league.

The design of the run game — and whether O’Connell and the Vikings need to reassess their plan in this phase — is a question unto itself. Often, though, personnel dictates what is possible, and it doesn’t help that Minnesota’s receivers (and tight end T.J. Hockenson, for that matter) don’t compare to players like Cooper Kupp or Puka Nacua as blockers. These are ancillary subjects, magnified when the trench performance is as putrid as it was in the Vikings’ final two games.

Fortunately, some enticing free agents are due to hit the market this spring. Kansas City Chiefs right guard Trey Smith is the biggest name. The two-time Super Bowl champion and Pro Bowler checks almost every box: He is still young (25), has a winning pedigree and has been durable. He is destined to receive a top-of-the-market deal (around $21 million a season), and competition for his talent will test the Vikings’ recruiting pitch.

Another intriguing option is Will Fries of the Indianapolis Colts. He fractured his tibia in Week 5 and has endured numerous injuries throughout his four-year career. He will turn 27 in April. His price tag will likely reflect those data points, offering the Vikings a different road map if Smith signs elsewhere. Other less impactful but proven candidates include 25-year-old Mekhi Becton of the Philadelphia Eagles and soon-to-be 35-year-old Kevin Zeitler of the Lions.

At center, Bradbury remains under contract through the 2025 season, but the Vikings could recoup some salary-cap space by cutting him. The Atlanta Falcons’ Drew Dalman, Chicago Bears’ Coleman Shelton and Colts’ Ryan Kelly will be available via free agency if the Vikings go that route.

Of course, the Vikings could always supplement signings with draft picks or reconfigure this group with a combination of both. What’s obvious at this point is the need to do whatever is necessary to plug leaks that have persisted for far too long.
Thanks for posting this article it was a good read. The problem I have is they knew it was a problem but had no other choice because they didn't have the cap. That's false. The Rams signed a rookie FA and he was in there starting lineup when we played them the first time around. Why wasn't he on our roster to challenge these stiffs? That's a cheap player and they missed again. FA is an avenue to build a roster but they better get it into their heads they need to use the other routes much better. I'm not knocking FA but when that's the only route working you are screwed. Nothing beats the draft or UDFA as cheap long term talent. Ingram was so bad why was he even in the starting lineup? Why did he even make the team? That's horrible coaching and roster management.
I would bet a lot that there were better players on practice squads. FA isn't always a home run. I've seen many big misses watching this game and that will kill you big time. We gave Blake a 3 year deal. Why give that bum 2 more years? That's wasting cap. Give one year.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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Redmon was signed.
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VikingLord
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Re: Offseason Thread

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makila wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 10:58 am This was not an outlier, either. Minnesota has averaged 4.0 yards per carry over the past three seasons, ranking 29th in the NFL. The Vikings are averaging 1.30 yards before contact on those carries, 24th in the league.
This is really the crux of the issue, or at least indicates the crux of the issue, although it would be helpful to see this further broken down by gap (inside, outside) and down/distance. If the Vikings tackles are considered to be good run blockers, for example, I'd expect the stats would indicate more efficiency running outside the tackles as compared to inside the tackles.

The biggest question for me as it relates to the above stats is where the Vikings will get the biggest bang for their cap buck. The running back play hasn't been stellar since KOC took over as head coach. That doesn't mean the Vikings have had no talent at RB, but they haven't fielded a back who I consider to be a dangerous runner. Having a RB who can improvise, break tackles, and has the burst to get to the 2nd level can make a lot of OL look better statistically than they probably are, much as as a good QB can elevate the play of otherwise lackluster receivers.

I think a reasonable way to improve the running game this offseason might be to use the 1st round pick on a running back, assuming one is on the board that merits the selection, while investing in the OL in free agency. I say this for a few reasons. First, running backs tend to be devalued in the modern NFL, making it more likely a talented player will slide down to the 24th pick who might otherwise merit a higher selection based on college production. So the Vikings are more likely to get value at that spot in the draft at that particular position.

The other factor at play is how challenging it can be to find notable interior OL players in the latter half of the 1st round. IOL players who are true studs tend to be off the board early, leaving a more muddled middle tier of prospects to choose from in the latter half of the 1st (I'm only considering the 1st round because the Vikings don't have a 2nd round pick). So it's a bigger swing sitting at #24 to select from the best of that 2nd tier of prospects at those particular positions, a fact which I think is largely borne out by the Vikings history taking IOL in the 1st and even 2nd rounds. It seems like more of a gamble.

The other possible play KAM could try is a trade down to pick up more choices, ala what he did in his first draft (but hopefully for better value in return).

If I had to guess what the Vikings will do, I think they'll target a RB at #24 and try to address the two guard spots in FA. I think they'll stick with Bradberry at center.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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What could we get for Darnold as there are more teams needing a Quarterback than what is going to be available in the draft?
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Re: Offseason Thread

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Husker Vike wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2025 11:01 pm What could we get for Darnold as there are more teams needing a Quarterback than what is going to be available in the draft?
Nothing unless they either franchise him or extend and then trade him. He was on a one year deal with no options for either side.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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What are the thoughts on trading Addison? The Raiders need a QB and WR. Maybe they pick up Darnold and trade for Addison. Maybe pick up Tee Higgins to replace him? That'd give the Vikings the 6th pick. Might be able to trade that pick down to get even more and still grab Ashton Jeanty.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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Cliff wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2025 11:37 am What are the thoughts on trading Addison? The Raiders need a QB and WR. Maybe they pick up Darnold and trade for Addison. Maybe pick up Tee Higgins to replace him? That'd give the Vikings the 6th pick. Might be able to trade that pick down to get even more and still grab Ashton Jeanty.
I was just thinking about that. His off field stuff and dad's comments can't help him. I was thinking Rams. That's a team with the arrow pointing up. They are young and draft very well. Going into Philly and putting up the fight they did against a very physical team was impressive.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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Cliff wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2025 11:37 am What are the thoughts on trading Addison? The Raiders need a QB and WR. Maybe they pick up Darnold and trade for Addison. Maybe pick up Tee Higgins to replace him? That'd give the Vikings the 6th pick. Might be able to trade that pick down to get even more and still grab Ashton Jeanty.
I think the Vikings could reasonably get the 38th pick for Addison based on what Addison has done to this point. I don't see anyone giving up a top 10 pick for him. If someone were willing to give up a top 10 for him, KAM would have to do that deal.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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KOC signed to multi year deal. No details yet.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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Cliff wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2025 11:37 am What are the thoughts on trading Addison? The Raiders need a QB and WR. Maybe they pick up Darnold and trade for Addison. Maybe pick up Tee Higgins to replace him? That'd give the Vikings the 6th pick. Might be able to trade that pick down to get even more and still grab Ashton Jeanty.
I think it isn't a bad idea. Nailor isn't as good, but is a very similar WR without that much of a drop-off. Between him, JJ and Hock, that should be enough for any QB to succeed.

Where I worry about trading him is that Addison is the only pick Kwesi has made that we know is actually any good and we would be trading him so Kwesi can make more picks that probably aren't any good.
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Re: Offseason Thread

Post by makila »

Cliff wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2025 11:37 am What are the thoughts on trading Addison? The Raiders need a QB and WR. Maybe they pick up Darnold and trade for Addison. Maybe pick up Tee Higgins to replace him? That'd give the Vikings the 6th pick. Might be able to trade that pick down to get even more and still grab Ashton Jeanty.
If we can get a high 2nd for him, I'd do it. I don't think we will be able to get a 1st.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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VikingLord wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2025 4:10 pm
Cliff wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2025 11:37 am What are the thoughts on trading Addison? The Raiders need a QB and WR. Maybe they pick up Darnold and trade for Addison. Maybe pick up Tee Higgins to replace him? That'd give the Vikings the 6th pick. Might be able to trade that pick down to get even more and still grab Ashton Jeanty.
I think the Vikings could reasonably get the 38th pick for Addison based on what Addison has done to this point. I don't see anyone giving up a top 10 pick for him. If someone were willing to give up a top 10 for him, KAM would have to do that deal.
Sooner or later Addison will need to be dealt. You can't invest most of the cap on one side of the ball. Could you imagine 70+ million in 2 WRs? Plus a high paid TE. The Bengals are going through that now. How many teams would give up a 1st rounder? Of course if we draft some guys for the OL there isn't a problem you could cut the high paid guys. That hasn't been the case so far.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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CharVike wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 12:53 pm
VikingLord wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2025 4:10 pm

I think the Vikings could reasonably get the 38th pick for Addison based on what Addison has done to this point. I don't see anyone giving up a top 10 pick for him. If someone were willing to give up a top 10 for him, KAM would have to do that deal.
Sooner or later Addison will need to be dealt. You can't invest most of the cap on one side of the ball. Could you imagine 70+ million in 2 WRs? Plus a high paid TE. The Bengals are going through that now. How many teams would give up a 1st rounder? Of course if we draft some guys for the OL there isn't a problem you could cut the high paid guys. That hasn't been the case so far.
Not sure what will happen with Addison. He had some good games and made an impact and probably can get even better if he works at it. But as it stands he can't command a top-flight contract on par with JJ any more than the Vikings could get a 1st rounder in trade for him.

I think when JJ McCarthy lines up under center next year I want him to have as much offensive talent around him as possible. I think he'll be able to take full advantage of it.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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VikingLord wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 7:14 pm
CharVike wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 12:53 pm
Sooner or later Addison will need to be dealt. You can't invest most of the cap on one side of the ball. Could you imagine 70+ million in 2 WRs? Plus a high paid TE. The Bengals are going through that now. How many teams would give up a 1st rounder? Of course if we draft some guys for the OL there isn't a problem you could cut the high paid guys. That hasn't been the case so far.
Not sure what will happen with Addison. He had some good games and made an impact and probably can get even better if he works at it. But as it stands he can't command a top-flight contract on par with JJ any more than the Vikings could get a 1st rounder in trade for him.

I think when JJ McCarthy lines up under center next year I want him to have as much offensive talent around him as possible. I think he'll be able to take full advantage of it.
Good points. I jumped to quick.
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Re: Offseason Thread

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makila wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:48 am
Cliff wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2025 11:37 am What are the thoughts on trading Addison? The Raiders need a QB and WR. Maybe they pick up Darnold and trade for Addison. Maybe pick up Tee Higgins to replace him? That'd give the Vikings the 6th pick. Might be able to trade that pick down to get even more and still grab Ashton Jeanty.
If we can get a high 2nd for him, I'd do it. I don't think we will be able to get a 1st.
I think it depends on how much potential people think he has. When your team has Justin Jefferson it's obvious every other WR's targets will be reduced. Addison has generally made the most out of his opportunities though. If you're a team with a 1st round pick and planning to draft an WR with it I think Addison might be tempting.
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