Wild Card Weekend: Giants @ Vikings predictions

[VikingLord]

I think we win this but it will be a nail biter. Being at home is a huge positive but we need to play clean football. If we get sloppy that will allow the Giants to hang close and then probably win. The Giants are a one man gang on offense. But we held Barkley in check until we allowed that long TD run. Jones don't have many weapons. I expect the same with a bunch of short crossing routes and dump offs. When he looks downfield he will take off once he feels the pressure. The guy has very good speed. On our side JJ is due for a big game. What concerns me is our current OL. If Olli is out there again the Giants will attack him and he will break down. He allowed a strip sack against the Packers. That's a play we can't have. I see it 23-17 with a late Giant drive coming up short with an int inside the red zone for the win.

2 things:

1.) Defensively, the first game, Daniel Jones lived off quick slant patterns. He doesnt often look downfield but we need to tighten up our coverage at the line to avoid the nickel and diming down the field.

2.) Offensively, yes the OL worries me. If Wink Martindale is smart, he sends blitzes to that right side early and often. Thibideoux vs. Udoh/Brandel worries me. However, I do think Udoh is a better tackle than he is guard and is a massive dude but the quickness factor of Thibideoux worries me. So I think in turn, we have to take a page out of Daniel Jones' playbook and also set up a lot of quick hitting passes so we dont allow that rush to get there.

Also, I'm sure they are going to throw even more looks at JJ this time around so I'm hoping we are ready for this and KJ is ready for this because that dude can do some damage when JJ is getting shut down.

I'd like to see the Vikings offense do two things I haven't been seeing them do much recently:

- Go downfield a few times early, and not only when the deep route is wide open. Deep passes can be risky and have to be timed well, but lately it seems the offense is not even attempting to take the top off early. The Vikings might not have speed demons at WR and might not have the greatest pass blocking OL, but I think it is absolutely critical to make the defense defend the entire length and width of the field and let them know you will attack it early. The heavy run emphasis and short passes early just compress the field and give blitz-happy teams like the Giants encouragement. Have to go deep and have to hurt them. That will back them off and then you can run more if that is what you really want to do.

- Along those lines, spread the offense out. The bunched formations just allow defenses to compress the LOS pre-snap and honestly make it easier for them to disguise the blitz. Maybe KOC believes the tight formations favor an explosive running back like Cook if every blocker can get a hat on a hat and neutralize defenders pulled in tight that will allow Cook to get to the second level quickly and possibly score, but even if the theory is sound the execution has not been for the most part. What the seemingly never-ending fascination the Vikings offensive coaches seem to have with bunched formations and running on early downs is beyond me. I thought that would end when Zimmer left but apparently not. Running out of spread formations works too. It might not be as easy to spring the RB for a TD out of spread, but the offense can still pick up those 4+ chunks running out of spread and that can work just as well over the course of a game if not better as it is more likely to result in sustained drives than the swing-for-the-fences approach of running out of bunched formations that KOC seems to favor. There are just too many 2 yards-or-less runs coming on early downs out of those tight formations and it really hurts the ability to keep drives going.

As for Udoh, I'm not worried about him at RT at all. He's a natural RT and as long as he's in shape he should be fine. I'm much more worried about the situation at center. Reed is OK in terms of his ability to play that position, but if he were to get hurt I have no idea who the Vikings could try at center.

[VikingLord]

I just don't see how this Seahawk team can beat them. Did Geno Smith all of the sudden become a very good QB? The 49ers are only allowing 70 yards a game rushing against them. The 49ers also have a dam good OL which helps their skill players big time. McCaffrey is a good player and Deebo should be back this game. Purdy has been a story and if he falls on his face the 49ers could be done. But that D keeps them in every game and they can flip a game. Anything can happen but I don't see the Hawks winning this.

The last game between the teams was pretty even statistically. Granted, it was in Seattle, but the 49ers didn't dominate it. The first game between the two teams was a much different story. The 49ers dominated that and won comfortably.

The 49ers are the more talented team overall, but historically divisional rivals struggle to pull off 3 wins in a season against each other. That doesn't mean the 49ers won't do it, but more that the Seahawks know the 49ers very well by now. If there is a chink in their armor, Pete Carroll is the most likely to find it and exploit it.

Should be a fascinating game. I suspect it will be a close game.

[Pondering Her Percy]

2 things:

1.) Defensively, the first game, Daniel Jones lived off quick slant patterns. He doesnt often look downfield but we need to tighten up our coverage at the line to avoid the nickel and diming down the field.

2.) Offensively, yes the OL worries me. If Wink Martindale is smart, he sends blitzes to that right side early and often. Thibideoux vs. Udoh/Brandel worries me. However, I do think Udoh is a better tackle than he is guard and is a massive dude but the quickness factor of Thibideoux worries me. So I think in turn, we have to take a page out of Daniel Jones' playbook and also set up a lot of quick hitting passes so we dont allow that rush to get there.

Also, I'm sure they are going to throw even more looks at JJ this time around so I'm hoping we are ready for this and KJ is ready for this because that dude can do some damage when JJ is getting shut down.

I'd like to see the Vikings offense do two things I haven't been seeing them do much recently:

- Go downfield a few times early, and not only when the deep route is wide open. Deep passes can be risky and have to be timed well, but lately it seems the offense is not even attempting to take the top off early. The Vikings might not have speed demons at WR and might not have the greatest pass blocking OL, but I think it is absolutely critical to make the defense defend the entire length and width of the field and let them know you will attack it early. The heavy run emphasis and short passes early just compress the field and give blitz-happy teams like the Giants encouragement. Have to go deep and have to hurt them. That will back them off and then you can run more if that is what you really want to do.

- Along those lines, spread the offense out. The bunched formations just allow defenses to compress the LOS pre-snap and honestly make it easier for them to disguise the blitz. Maybe KOC believes the tight formations favor an explosive running back like Cook if every blocker can get a hat on a hat and neutralize defenders pulled in tight that will allow Cook to get to the second level quickly and possibly score, but even if the theory is sound the execution has not been for the most part. What the seemingly never-ending fascination the Vikings offensive coaches seem to have with bunched formations and running on early downs is beyond me. I thought that would end when Zimmer left but apparently not. Running out of spread formations works too. It might not be as easy to spring the RB for a TD out of spread, but the offense can still pick up those 4+ chunks running out of spread and that can work just as well over the course of a game if not better as it is more likely to result in sustained drives than the swing-for-the-fences approach of running out of bunched formations that KOC seems to favor. There are just too many 2 yards-or-less runs coming on early downs out of those tight formations and it really hurts the ability to keep drives going.

As for Udoh, I'm not worried about him at RT at all. He's a natural RT and as long as he's in shape he should be fine. I'm much more worried about the situation at center. Reed is OK in terms of his ability to play that position, but if he were to get hurt I have no idea who the Vikings could try at center.

Agreed, good take here. As for center, they would put in Mancz if Reed was to go down. We just signed him the other day.

Also, one thing I'm starting to want to see more and more in games..... Alexander Mattison. In that Chicago game (granted it's Chicago but still), Cook sort of struggled early on but when Mattison went in, our run game really improved. I think what you pointed out above could be causing some issues with the run game. However, I feel like Cook gets too "dancy" at the line at times. Where he's pitter-pattering his feet waiting for a hole to open up. Where Mattison is a pure downhill runner. He doesnt have the breakaway ability that Cook has but Mattison seems more likely to turn a 1st and 10 into a 2nd and 4. I was planning on starting a thread today discussing this actually.

[CharVike]

I just don't see how this Seahawk team can beat them. Did Geno Smith all of the sudden become a very good QB? The 49ers are only allowing 70 yards a game rushing against them. The 49ers also have a dam good OL which helps their skill players big time. McCaffrey is a good player and Deebo should be back this game. Purdy has been a story and if he falls on his face the 49ers could be done. But that D keeps them in every game and they can flip a game. Anything can happen but I don't see the Hawks winning this.

The last game between the teams was pretty even statistically. Granted, it was in Seattle, but the 49ers didn't dominate it. The first game between the two teams was a much different story. The 49ers dominated that and won comfortably.

The 49ers are the more talented team overall, but historically divisional rivals struggle to pull off 3 wins in a season against each other. That doesn't mean the 49ers won't do it, but more that the Seahawks know the 49ers very well by now. If there is a chink in their armor, Pete Carroll is the most likely to find it and exploit it.

Should be a fascinating game. I suspect it will be a close game.

You bring up good points and yes it is hard to beat a divisional rival 3 times. There's also no doubt that Carroll is a solid HC. He seems to get the most out of what he has. But they are basically a 500 team. The 49ers went through their scare against the Raiders. Their eyes are open. You are only looking at a possible upset and the things you point out are why it's even possible.

[IIsweet]

Something that is overlooked by fans is timing at the RB position.
The greats have always been able to adjust to their OL. So many RB's do not have good timing with the OL and so many of them are no longer in the league because they could not make that adjustment. You see them on the backsides of the OL too frequently. I would expect to see a much-improved performance this week from Cook after another week of practice behind the current OL. With revolving doors on the OL, it is tough to make that adjustment. Hence, Mattison, a little slower than Cook, had better timing last week and if Cook cannot get it going, then I hope we throw Mattison in there.
The greats had a delayed start, a hesitation, or were just the right tempo to hit the holes as the they were opening.

[CharVike]

I'd like to see the Vikings offense do two things I haven't been seeing them do much recently:

- Go downfield a few times early, and not only when the deep route is wide open. Deep passes can be risky and have to be timed well, but lately it seems the offense is not even attempting to take the top off early. The Vikings might not have speed demons at WR and might not have the greatest pass blocking OL, but I think it is absolutely critical to make the defense defend the entire length and width of the field and let them know you will attack it early. The heavy run emphasis and short passes early just compress the field and give blitz-happy teams like the Giants encouragement. Have to go deep and have to hurt them. That will back them off and then you can run more if that is what you really want to do.

- Along those lines, spread the offense out. The bunched formations just allow defenses to compress the LOS pre-snap and honestly make it easier for them to disguise the blitz. Maybe KOC believes the tight formations favor an explosive running back like Cook if every blocker can get a hat on a hat and neutralize defenders pulled in tight that will allow Cook to get to the second level quickly and possibly score, but even if the theory is sound the execution has not been for the most part. What the seemingly never-ending fascination the Vikings offensive coaches seem to have with bunched formations and running on early downs is beyond me. I thought that would end when Zimmer left but apparently not. Running out of spread formations works too. It might not be as easy to spring the RB for a TD out of spread, but the offense can still pick up those 4+ chunks running out of spread and that can work just as well over the course of a game if not better as it is more likely to result in sustained drives than the swing-for-the-fences approach of running out of bunched formations that KOC seems to favor. There are just too many 2 yards-or-less runs coming on early downs out of those tight formations and it really hurts the ability to keep drives going.

As for Udoh, I'm not worried about him at RT at all. He's a natural RT and as long as he's in shape he should be fine. I'm much more worried about the situation at center. Reed is OK in terms of his ability to play that position, but if he were to get hurt I have no idea who the Vikings could try at center.

Agreed, good take here. As for center, they would put in Mancz if Reed was to go down. We just signed him the other day.

Also, one thing I'm starting to want to see more and more in games..... Alexander Mattison. In that Chicago game (granted it's Chicago but still), Cook sort of struggled early on but when Mattison went in, our run game really improved. I think what you pointed out above could be causing some issues with the run game. However, I feel like Cook gets too "dancy" at the line at times. Where he's pitter-pattering his feet waiting for a hole to open up. Where Mattison is a pure downhill runner. He doesnt have the breakaway ability that Cook has but Mattison seems more likely to turn a 1st and 10 into a 2nd and 4. I was planning on starting a thread today discussing this actually.

Matti is guy who has proven he can run hard and put his had down and get into the line quickly. I also like us to spread out. That's one of the things I liked when KOC was initially hired and his 3 WR approach. A defense needs to respect 3 WRs and change their approach. I'd like to see Nailor in the slot and put KJ outside as a change up. Nailor has some take off and speed which should help keep a safety(s) back.

[VikingLord]

Also, one thing I'm starting to want to see more and more in games..... Alexander Mattison. In that Chicago game (granted it's Chicago but still), Cook sort of struggled early on but when Mattison went in, our run game really improved. I think what you pointed out above could be causing some issues with the run game. However, I feel like Cook gets too "dancy" at the line at times. Where he's pitter-pattering his feet waiting for a hole to open up. Where Mattison is a pure downhill runner. He doesnt have the breakaway ability that Cook has but Mattison seems more likely to turn a 1st and 10 into a 2nd and 4. I was planning on starting a thread today discussing this actually.

Mattison is more like Leroy Hoard who once said to an interviewer "If you need 2 yards I will get you 3. If you need 4 yards I will get you 3".

But you make a good point and I agree with it. Cook is explosive no doubt, but he's not surviving first contact very well. He's lost two fumbles in the last two games on fairly minor grabs at the ball as well. He can be explosive if he gets a hole, but the Vikings OL hasn't been very good at creating those holes.

One thing I am sure about is if the lack of production in the run game on the early downs continues, the Vikings offense will continue to struggle to maintain drives. The run game has to be picking up 3-4 yards on those early downs more often than not or that will keep putting them into 3rd-and-longer-than-they'd-like and that has been an issue for them all year for long stretches of games.

If a more downhill power running game results in more consistent 3rd-and-3-or-less, the offense is much more likely to be able to sustain drives and in the playoffs, an offense that sustains drives is an offense that scores and wins. Not to mention how it helps the defense. Granted, the Vikings defense hasn't been very good this year, but it hasn't helped that in some games the offense has had long stretches where they consistently had short drives and had to punt quickly.

It will be interesting to see if KOC realizes that and if he does, how it affects the run distribution between Cook and Mattison.

[VikingsVictorious]

I predict:
Vikings Win
Giants Lose.

[CharVike]

Bradbury returned to practice on a limited basis. They said he will be eased in but it's a step in the right direction.
Lynch was a full practice participant which is good for the DL.
Dantzler was out with ankle.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Cameron Dantzler Sr. CB Ankle/Personal Matter DNP
Brian Asamoah ll LB Knee LP
Garrett Bradbury C Back LP
James Lynch DL Shoulder FP
Harrison Smith S Knee LP

[CharVike]

Watch Danatell press conference he said this about Cam Bynum. Cam is a "student of the game" and that has benefited him tremendously He has made great strides this season. He will be a student for the next 10 years. We have all seen Cam have some rough stretches but I like the fact that the guy goes for the ball. He also pointed out that Harrison is also a student and he helps him out. I think that is good thing to hear. It also tells me that Cine is the guy that will eventually replace Harry when he decides to retire. I thought he might be inline to replace Cam. When asked about H Smith not playing against the Bears he said it was rest. When asked about the playoff game he said he will be ready to go. I guess the vets did get some rest with out saying "rest". Same with Z.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Watch Danatell press conference he said this about Cam Bynum. Cam is a "student of the game" and that has benefited him tremendously He has made great strides this season. He will be a student for the next 10 years. We have all seen Cam have some rough stretches but I like the fact that the guy goes for the ball. He also pointed out that Harrison is also a student and he helps him out. I think that is good thing to hear. It also tells me that Cine is the guy that will eventually replace Harry when he decides to retire. I thought he might be inline to replace Cam. When asked about H Smith not playing against the Bears he said it was rest. When asked about the playoff game he said he will be ready to go. I guess the vets did get some rest with out saying "rest". Same with Z.

I'm really starting to wonder if Josh Metellus is going to replace Bynum at some point.

[VikingLord]

Watch Danatell press conference he said this about Cam Bynum. Cam is a "student of the game" and that has benefited him tremendously He has made great strides this season. He will be a student for the next 10 years. We have all seen Cam have some rough stretches but I like the fact that the guy goes for the ball. He also pointed out that Harrison is also a student and he helps him out. I think that is good thing to hear. It also tells me that Cine is the guy that will eventually replace Harry when he decides to retire. I thought he might be inline to replace Cam. When asked about H Smith not playing against the Bears he said it was rest. When asked about the playoff game he said he will be ready to go. I guess the vets did get some rest with out saying "rest". Same with Z.

Bynum isn't terrible I guess, but there are times when his physical limitations show up (like in tackling). Also, it's hard to tell what assignments various defensive backs have on any given play, but there have been too many wide open receivers running deep routes this year for me to believe that either safety is playing at a high level. On that deep route I believe Williamson scored on in the 2nd game against the Lions, it's hard for me to believe that wasn't Bynum's responsibility to cover that area of the field. There have been other examples as well where I felt Bynum lacked awareness or was not in position.

For the most part the entire secondary and linebacker level of the pass defense has been garbage most of the year with notable exceptions. I feel like Duke Shelley and Patrick Peterson have done well for the most part (although Peterson has been bailed out on a few deep throws where he was beat but the QB misfired). Everyone else has been pretty marginal. When the pass rush is good the secondary and LBs look better of course, but it's hard to say if they'll get that help in the playoffs.

I attribute at least some of the struggles to the transition to the 3-4. It asks different things out of the defensive ends and linebackers and the short-to-medium middle and short outside have been the areas most vulnerable in the passing game all year. What has dismayed me though is the propensity of the Vikings secondary to give up the deep balls, both down the sidelines and over the deep middle. All year they've gotten burned like that even by QBs like Daniel Jones who had almost no success throwing deep against anyone all year. That doesn't all fall on the safeties of course but they have played a part in allowing those yards.

I hope that Donatell is just a master manipulator and made everyone believe the Vikings pass defense is porous so he can turn it on in the playoffs and romp starting with the Giants...

[CharVike]

Watch Danatell press conference he said this about Cam Bynum. Cam is a "student of the game" and that has benefited him tremendously He has made great strides this season. He will be a student for the next 10 years. We have all seen Cam have some rough stretches but I like the fact that the guy goes for the ball. He also pointed out that Harrison is also a student and he helps him out. I think that is good thing to hear. It also tells me that Cine is the guy that will eventually replace Harry when he decides to retire. I thought he might be inline to replace Cam. When asked about H Smith not playing against the Bears he said it was rest. When asked about the playoff game he said he will be ready to go. I guess the vets did get some rest with out saying "rest". Same with Z.

Bynum isn't terrible I guess, but there are times when his physical limitations show up (like in tackling). Also, it's hard to tell what assignments various defensive backs have on any given play, but there have been too many wide open receivers running deep routes this year for me to believe that either safety is playing at a high level. On that deep route I believe Williamson scored on in the 2nd game against the Lions, it's hard for me to believe that wasn't Bynum's responsibility to cover that area of the field. There have been other examples as well where I felt Bynum lacked awareness or was not in position.

For the most part the entire secondary and linebacker level of the pass defense has been garbage most of the year with notable exceptions. I feel like Duke Shelley and Patrick Peterson have done well for the most part (although Peterson has been bailed out on a few deep throws where he was beat but the QB misfired). Everyone else has been pretty marginal. When the pass rush is good the secondary and LBs look better of course, but it's hard to say if they'll get that help in the playoffs.

I attribute at least some of the struggles to the transition to the 3-4. It asks different things out of the defensive ends and linebackers and the short-to-medium middle and short outside have been the areas most vulnerable in the passing game all year. What has dismayed me though is the propensity of the Vikings secondary to give up the deep balls, both down the sidelines and over the deep middle. All year they've gotten burned like that even by QBs like Daniel Jones who had almost no success throwing deep all against anyone all year. That doesn't all fall on the safeties of course but they have played a part in allowing those yards.

I hope that Donatell is just a master manipulator and made everyone believe the Vikings pass defense is porous so he can turn it on in the playoffs and romp starting with the Giants...

Bynum has had his issues there is no doubt about that. On Brakley's long TD run against us he attempted an arm tackle and that won't work against a guy running all out. The guy has only played the position for 2 seasons and this may be his max which means he's not the answer. Of course a guy should never streak up the gut to begin with but sometimes stuff happens. I like his ball skills but the position requires more than that like tackling and not biting on shorter routes. I still hope Donatell gets fired once this ends. I still feel if we stuck with the 4-3 we would have been a much better D. Tomlison can wreck havoc inside in both the run and pass game. I also feel Hunter is much better down than up. That's half the spots filled with good to very good players. We have guys to fill the other 2 spots. We were weak at LBer coming in and we need more than just 3. We are still weak at that position. Drafting won't fix that in the right now mode.

[IIsweet]

First of all.... I predict Vikings win but going to be a tough game. The players that are worrying me right now for them on offense is Saquon out of the backfield vs our pedestrian LB's, WR Richie James as we have no one that can stay with this dude, and then Daniel Jones running. Defensively, we have to figure out how to prevent the interior DL of Lawrence, and Williams to not completely destroy the pocket, and the rookie Thibodeaux from wreaking havoc. IF, we can protect, I expect a big game from both JJ and TJ. Osborn and Thielen will have some big plays due to them having to focus on JJ.

As for the other conversations....
2 words .... COMPETITIVE REBUILD
That is what we are in. I do not see Donatell being fired. The Vikings will continue to add players that fit the scheme Donatell wants to run. Just my opinion but I do not expect it to happen. Donatell will easily say that the group of players we currently have do not offer us the ability to run the defense as he desires. Year 2 they will be much better and much more knowledgeable. I do expect Kwesi to be making the tough decisions after the season though. Restructuring aging leaders, or just releasing them. Continuing to add 3-4 players and I expect to see any FA $ cleared go to speed at the LB position. To me FA CB and Edge rushers are way to expensive. So drafting them every year is probably a great idea.

[VikingLord]

First of all.... I predict Vikings win but going to be a tough game. The players that are worrying me right now for them on offense is Saquon out of the backfield vs our pedestrian LB's, WR Richie James as we have no one that can stay with this dude, and then Daniel Jones running. Defensively, we have to figure out how to prevent the interior DL of Lawrence, and Williams to not completely destroy the pocket, and the rookie Thibodeaux from wreaking havoc. IF, we can protect, I expect a big game from both JJ and TJ. Osborn and Thielen will have some big plays due to them having to focus on JJ.

The Giants offense isn't exactly intimidating, although based on how they performed against the Vikings defense the last time the two teams played and the way the Vikings defense has played in general I can understand your worries.

The biggest issue with defending against the Giants is keeping Jones bottled up. The Vikings actually did OK against Barkley for most of the game and just blew it on the 4th-and-2 late. The Giants receivers are just OK and probably had their best overall game of the year against the Vikings in the prior game. Whether they can repeat that performance remains to be seen.

The real key for the Giants offense is Jones and his ability to extend plays with his legs. The Vikings have faced several teams with QBs who can run and they've caused them fits all year. If they can limit Jones in that aspect of the game, I think they win, maybe even comfortably depending on how the offense does.

Speaking of the offense, that is an area of the team that needs to find their groove. We've seen stretches of really good offensive production out of the Vikings this season, but it has always been marred by other stretches of futility. If this team is going to go deep into the playoffs, the offense has to be more consistent. I'm really hoping KOC also has some wrinkles to throw in as well. The offense has gotten a little stale over the last several weeks.

As for the other conversations....
2 words .... COMPETITIVE REBUILD
That is what we are in. I do not see Donatell being fired. The Vikings will continue to add players that fit the scheme Donatell wants to run. Just my opinion but I do not expect it to happen. Donatell will easily say that the group of players we currently have do not offer us the ability to run the defense as he desires. Year 2 they will be much better and much more knowledgeable. I do expect Kwesi to be making the tough decisions after the season though. Restructuring aging leaders, or just releasing them. Continuing to add 3-4 players and I expect to see any FA $ cleared go to speed at the LB position. To me FA CB and Edge rushers are way to expensive. So drafting them every year is probably a great idea.

Donatell's defense has not been good this year, and I hope he is evaluated not on what he claims are his player deficiencies in the scheme he ran, but on his ability to get the most out of the players he had regardless of the scheme. In my opinion, the era of a hard-and-fast schematic approach to defense or offense is over, and any coach who comes in and makes such a claim as an excuse for utter failure should be fired as a matter of principle.

Donatell's defense has been rigid and incompetent, saved mostly by the big plays individual players have made in key situations. They've been competent only in run defense against running backs. Granted, there have been key injuries at CB that have hampered them, but when a 3rd string CB can come in and look better than the 2 guys who started in front of him, one has to question if the coach is fairly evaluating those players. The safeties have consistently left deep routes wide open for easy scores, and I've seen way too many plays where there are two Viking defenders looking at one receiver while another runs wide open. The icing on the cake for me was the second game against the Packers where the Vikings clearly had 10 men on the field on one play and didn't call a timeout, and then were caught with 12 men on the field on a subsequent play.

Most of that falls on Donatell. He's a nice guy and I think he means well but his defense has been a sh*tshow all year. If he somehow gets it together for a playoff run I'll reconsider my position on him, but he's failed to get the most out of what he has, and if he excuses that by blaming the players he has, I'll lose all respect for him, and I can imagine the same would be true of the players he coaches.