The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly after 6 weeks

[StumpHunter]

You give me any team in the league. Bills, Eagles, Chiefs etc. I’ll be able to find you these same lulls on offense and defense easy. We’ll continue seeing these lulls in every game as long as the competition is great. I for one think that is why the NFL is so special.

You are correct, it does happen to every team. The Bills, the best offense in the NFL have a 3 and out every 6.67 drives, or about 2 a game where their offense does nothing.

The Vikings have one every 3.42 drives, almost twice as often as the Bills.

So while these lulls do happen to even the best offenses out there, they happen to the Vikings more than all but 2 teams: Carolina and Pitt.

Looking at drives resulting in punts (most of the drives teams don't score), the Vikings are a little better but still bottom 10 in most punts per drive. Where the Bills punt once every 6 drives the Vikings punt every 2.4 drives.

Too many wasted opportunities to score for a team with arguably the best WR in the NFL, a highly paid vet QB, and what is still a top 10 RB.

[Pondering Her Percy]

You give me any team in the league. Bills, Eagles, Chiefs etc. I’ll be able to find you these same lulls on offense and defense easy. We’ll continue seeing these lulls in every game as long as the competition is great. I for one think that is why the NFL is so special.

You are correct, it does happen to every team. The Bills, the best offense in the NFL have a 3 and out every 6.67 drives, or about 2 a game where their offense does nothing.

The Vikings have one every 3.42 drives, almost twice as often as the Bills.

So while these lulls do happen to even the best offenses out there, they happen to the Vikings more than all but 2 teams: Carolina and Pitt.

Looking at drives resulting in punts (most of the drives teams don't score), the Vikings are a little better but still bottom 10 in most punts per drive. Where the Bills punt once every 6 drives the Vikings punt every 2.4 drives.

Too many wasted opportunities to score for a team with arguably the best WR in the NFL, a highly paid vet QB, and what is still a top 10 RB.

..... but we're still 5-1. Plenty of room to get better. But still 5-1. I can post plenty of stats that show this team in the top 10 in different areas as well. Instead of constantly focusing on the negatives, look at the big picture....they are 5-1

[IIsweet]

First off Vikeinmontana, what are some good value bourbons that you suggest?
Actually the question goes to anyone that enjoys a good drink and has found an inexpensive one.
Next, The Vikings are definitely struggling in phases of the game, but this team also isn't breaking down. They are playing together and I believe that it is the chemistry that they are building as well as the culture in the locker room. As a coach, I say all the time that chemistry wins all the time when ability is comparable.

I still think that the offense needs better play at the QB position. This is what is holding them back. To me, it is 1 very simple concept but probably impossible for Kirk. "Just Throw the Damn Ball" !!! Give your playmakers an opportunity to make a play. He still always makes the safe throw. He always looks for the highest % throw on every play call.
Sometimes you just have to rip it and give the guys a chance. A lot of the time a Pass Interference call will be made. It also backs the safety off out of the box. It opens up throwing lanes and spaces for the TE and WR to get into. Just the fear of it drops the DB's back. There is very little space for our guys because Kirk plays it safe all the time.
As for the OL, everyone has said just about everything that needs to be said.
Same defensively... we are just getting long in the tooth. Speed is not quite there and schematically, I feel that we are another year away, maybe 2? Interesting draft next year as well as free agency.

Glad to be 5-1. They are learning how to win as THIS team ! When you think it will happen, teams seem to get lucky ! Btw, to me, Luck is when preparation meets opportunity!

[StumpHunter]

You are correct, it does happen to every team. The Bills, the best offense in the NFL have a 3 and out every 6.67 drives, or about 2 a game where their offense does nothing.

The Vikings have one every 3.42 drives, almost twice as often as the Bills.

So while these lulls do happen to even the best offenses out there, they happen to the Vikings more than all but 2 teams: Carolina and Pitt.

Looking at drives resulting in punts (most of the drives teams don't score), the Vikings are a little better but still bottom 10 in most punts per drive. Where the Bills punt once every 6 drives the Vikings punt every 2.4 drives.

Too many wasted opportunities to score for a team with arguably the best WR in the NFL, a highly paid vet QB, and what is still a top 10 RB.

..... but we're still 5-1. Plenty of room to get better. But still 5-1. I can post plenty of stats that show this team in the top 10 in different areas as well. Instead of constantly focusing on the negatives, look at the big picture....they are 5-1

The big picture is not 5-1, it is looking at the level of competition the Vikings have faced, how they have played against that competition and whether or not they can maintain the level of success they have previously achieved against future competition. It is comparing what the Vikings have done to the best teams in the NFL and looking at whether or not this Vikings team would be competitive against those teams.

Based on the level of competition, this team should be at least 5-1 to be considered a SB contender and it is.

They should also be easily winning against bad teams most of the time. They aren't.

They should have been at least competitive against the only good competition they have faced. They weren't.

They should compare favorably to the other top teams in the NFL statistically. They don't.

It is possible they start playing better as they adjust to playing in a brand new scheme on offense and defense, but they do need to play better to be considered a legit contender and while there are positive signs that indicate this team is headed in the right direction, they play very disciplined and are one of the least penalized teams in the NFL for instance, there are other signs that things aren't.

[JJBreaksRecords]

You are correct, it does happen to every team. The Bills, the best offense in the NFL have a 3 and out every 6.67 drives, or about 2 a game where their offense does nothing.

The Vikings have one every 3.42 drives, almost twice as often as the Bills.

So while these lulls do happen to even the best offenses out there, they happen to the Vikings more than all but 2 teams: Carolina and Pitt.

Looking at drives resulting in punts (most of the drives teams don't score), the Vikings are a little better but still bottom 10 in most punts per drive. Where the Bills punt once every 6 drives the Vikings punt every 2.4 drives.

Too many wasted opportunities to score for a team with arguably the best WR in the NFL, a highly paid vet QB, and what is still a top 10 RB.

..... but we're still 5-1. Plenty of room to get better. But still 5-1. I can post plenty of stats that show this team in the top 10 in different areas as well. Instead of constantly focusing on the negatives, look at the big picture....they are 5-1

Please do.

[Pondering Her Percy]

The big picture is not 5-1.

It actually is. Because wins are what matters right? I mean I remember plenty of times where you said, Kirks wins mattered, not his stats. You were all about his career record. You were all about other QBs career records compared to his. You were all about his record in primetime, you wanted to even dismiss Staffords record in Detroit but critique Cousins' in Washington. Its record, record, record with you.

But hey, 5-1 is not the big picture Of course it's not, it doesnt fit your narrative about Cousins and this team. It works against you. You have been EXTREMELY quiet during all of these wins, which is typical. You didnt shut up in the Philly thread. But you've been quiet in every other thread.

They should also be easily winning against bad teams most of the time. They aren't.

Not sure what world you're living in but that's just not how this league works.

The Chiefs beat the Raiders by 1, beat the Chargers by 3 and lost to the Colts. Are they easily winning against bad teams?

The Eagles beat the Lions by 3, Jaguars by 8 and Cardinals by 3. Are they easily winning against bad teams?

Have some football knowledge. Dont even go there.

[Pondering Her Percy]

..... but we're still 5-1. Plenty of room to get better. But still 5-1. I can post plenty of stats that show this team in the top 10 in different areas as well. Instead of constantly focusing on the negatives, look at the big picture....they are 5-1

Please do.

You have access to the internet, feel free to look them up Stump2.0

[vikeinmontana]

Lots on offense. Not as many on defense.

A few on offense:
Red Zone Scoring Attempts
Red Zone Scoring TD's
2pt Conversion Percentage
TD's Per Game
Completions Per Game
Passing Yards Per Game

[StumpHunter]

The big picture is not 5-1.

It actually is.

The big picture is the record in less than half a season? Neat. It is the most important thing to happen so far, but it isn't the big picture, it is just a piece of it.

Because wins are what matters right? I mean I remember plenty of times where you said, Kirks wins mattered, not his stats. You were all about his career record. You were all about other QBs career records compared to his. You were all about his record in primetime, you wanted to even dismiss Staffords record in Detroit but critique Cousins' in Washington. Its record, record, record with you.

Non sequitur that has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but I will humor you. Are QB wins a thing now or do you want to continue to ignore record and just look at stats? I have never claimed QB stats don't matter, just that Cousins' stats are not very impactful on winning and this season just confirms that. Worst statistical start of his career and the team is having the best start of his career.

But hey, 5-1 is not the big picture Of course it's not, it doesnt fit your narrative about Cousins and this team. It works against you. You have been EXTREMELY quiet during all of these wins, which is typical. You didnt shut up in the Philly thread. But you've been quiet in every other thread.

Glad you are keeping track. Completely healthy behavior.

They should also be easily winning against bad teams most of the time. They aren't.

Not sure what world you're living in but that's just not how this league works.

The Chiefs beat the Raiders by 1, beat the Chargers by 3 and lost to the Colts. Are they easily winning against bad teams?

The Eagles beat the Lions by 3, Jaguars by 8 and Cardinals by 3. Are they easily winning against bad teams?

Have some football knowledge. Dont even go there.

Eagles average scoring margin with the 24th most difficult schedule: 9.3
Chiefs average scoring margin with the 13th most difficult schedule: 7.3

Vikings average scoring margin with the 20th most difficult schedule: 3.5

Looking back at the best 6 game starts in Vikings' history:
1998: 6-0 (Pt. Diff = +104)
1975: 6-0 (Pt. Diff = +85)
2003: 6-0 (Pt. Diff = +75)
2009: 6-0 (Pt. Diff = +68)
1973: 6-0 (Pt. Diff = +50)
2000: 6-0 (Pt. Diff = +43)
1970: 5-1 (Pt. Diff = +115)
1969: 5-1 (Pt. Diff = +111)
1976: 5-1 (Pt. Diff = +61)
1974: 5-1 (Pt. Diff = +59)
1971: 5-1 (Pt. Diff = +50)
1992: 5-1 (Pt. Diff = +48)
2016: 5-1 (Pt. Diff = +45) 8-8
2004: 5-1 (Pt. Diffl = +42) 8-8
1996: 5-1 (Pt. Diff = +22) 9-7
2022: 5-1 (Pt. Diff = +21) ?

Now you have been educated. Your welcome.

[J. Kapp 11]

Bad
Lulls. In every game, we’ve had periods where we do nothing. The Packers game was a blowout, but could’ve been even moreso. The Bears and Saints games should’ve been blowouts. We started very slowly against Miami. What can KOC to to minimize these down periods?

What kind of bourbon in your old fashioned? I’m a liquor store owner so always curious. Ironically more of a wine guy but my bourbon portfolio is pretty awesome!

Anyway, I just wanted to comment. Obviously lulls in every game are bad. But it’s kinda what I was trying to get across in that other thread. What can we do to minimize these lulls? Play high school teams.

You give me any team in the league. Bills, Eagles, Chiefs etc. I’ll be able to find you these same lulls on offense and defense easy. We’ll continue seeing these lulls in every game as long as the competition is great. I for one think that is why the NFL is so special.

Kapp you know I see eye to eye with you on nearly every post. And you’re not even wrong here. Lulls are bad. If I had my choice I want our offense to score touchdowns every possession and our defense to get three and outs if they don’t get a turnover first. Zero lulls. But I have yet to see that.

My opinion? We’ll always have these lulls, on both sides of the ball, because there are incredible athletes on the other team making enough money to set up their grandkids grandkids to see that we have a lull or two every game.

Lately I’ve been drinking Basil Hayden Toast.

As for the lulls, I’m talking about those that let teams back into games. Yes, other teams are going to fight like crazy. I get it. They get paid, too. But the Vikings have scored six total points in the third quarter. So my comment is really about the team identifying areas of improvement and working to get better, not about being perfect.

I’m guessing KOC has been working on things like that during the bye week. Self scouting.

[Pondering Her Percy]

It actually is.

The big picture is the record in less than half a season? Neat. It is the most important thing to happen so far, but it isn't the big picture, it is just a piece of it.

Because wins are what matters right? I mean I remember plenty of times where you said, Kirks wins mattered, not his stats. You were all about his career record. You were all about other QBs career records compared to his. You were all about his record in primetime, you wanted to even dismiss Staffords record in Detroit but critique Cousins' in Washington. Its record, record, record with you.

Non sequitur that has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but I will humor you. Are QB wins a thing now or do you want to continue to ignore record and just look at stats? I have never claimed QB stats don't matter, just that Cousins' stats are not very impactful on winning and this season just confirms that. Worst statistical start of his career and the team is having the best start of his career.

But hey, 5-1 is not the big picture Of course it's not, it doesnt fit your narrative about Cousins and this team. It works against you. You have been EXTREMELY quiet during all of these wins, which is typical. You didnt shut up in the Philly thread. But you've been quiet in every other thread.

Glad you are keeping track. Completely healthy behavior.

Not sure what world you're living in but that's just not how this league works.

The Chiefs beat the Raiders by 1, beat the Chargers by 3 and lost to the Colts. Are they easily winning against bad teams?

The Eagles beat the Lions by 3, Jaguars by 8 and Cardinals by 3. Are they easily winning against bad teams?

Have some football knowledge. Dont even go there.

Eagles average scoring margin with the 24th most difficult schedule: 9.3
Chiefs average scoring margin with the 13th most difficult schedule: 7.3

Vikings average scoring margin with the 20th most difficult schedule: 3.5

Looking back at the best 6 game starts in Vikings' history:
1998: 6-0 (Pt. Diff = +104)
1975: 6-0 (Pt. Diff = +85)
2003: 6-0 (Pt. Diff = +75)
2009: 6-0 (Pt. Diff = +68)
1973: 6-0 (Pt. Diff = +50)
2000: 6-0 (Pt. Diff = +43)
1970: 5-1 (Pt. Diff = +115)
1969: 5-1 (Pt. Diff = +111)
1976: 5-1 (Pt. Diff = +61)
1974: 5-1 (Pt. Diff = +59)
1971: 5-1 (Pt. Diff = +50)
1992: 5-1 (Pt. Diff = +48)
2016: 5-1 (Pt. Diff = +45) 8-8
2004: 5-1 (Pt. Diffl = +42) 8-8
1996: 5-1 (Pt. Diff = +22) 9-7
2022: 5-1 (Pt. Diff = +21) ?

Now you have been educated. Your welcome.

Wow are you full of yourself or what? Also, does anyone on this board like your posts other than your disciple? Asking for a friend

A 5-1 record at this point is indeed the big picture. Whether they won 5 games by 100 or by 1, that’s 5 wins in 6 games. You play the game to win, not over analyze stats and try to predict the future. And I know for a fact if they were 1-5, you’d be literally living on this board losing your mind and constantly pointing at the record anytime someone tried to defend the team.

Your attempt regarding the chiefs and eagles is actually comical. The fact that you just try SO hard and still fail is honestly entertaining. What does the Eagles or Chiefs strength of schedule have to do with anything whatsoever? Your beef with the Vikings record was that they aren’t “blowing out” weaker teams more often that not. So again, what does the chiefs and eagles strength of schedule have to do with anything? Since they play other “hard” games on their schedule, that prevents them from blowing out the bad ones? Like what?

You want to talk about education? What you were just educated on was that the league doesn’t just work that way. Top teams don’t just consistently blow out weaker teams on a regular basis. This isn’t 1975 anymore. Everyone in this league is a freak athlete, everyone has play makers, everyone has talent (some have more than others) but you look across the league and the blowouts are becoming a thing of the past.

I mean have you been in any knockout pools? Where you pick one single team to win each week? I was in a $1 million pool and one worth 22k. Im out in both and it’s week 8. These pools are going to be done well before the season ends. The fastest they’ve ever ended. Games are getting extremely hard to predict anymore. The amount of “upsets” this year have been off the charts.

The Bears have 3 wins, one of the worst worst rosters in the nfl.

The Commanders have 3 wins, one of the worst rosters in the nfl.

The Falcons have 3 wins, one of the worst rosters in the nfl.

….if someone asked me who has the 3 worst rosters in the nfl, I’d probably name those 3 above.

The panthers just annihilated the Bucs and have one of the worst rosters in the nfl.

The jets are 5-2 with a questionable roster

The Seahawks are leading their division over the Rams, 49ers and Cardinals with Geno Smith at QB.

In the end, you can post all the stupid a#s, meaningless stats you want, THIS LEAGUE DOESNT WORK THAT WAY! I don’t give a damn what the Chiefs or Eagles strength of schedule is, bottom line is, I proved they weren’t blowing out weaker teams either. That is a FACT.

….you’re welcome


Oh and a side note: it’s pretty obvious if you’re on here running your trap or not. I don’t need to “track” it. It stays quiet and quite peaceful on here when the Vikings are winning and you go into hiding. When the Vikings lose, thread pages are 5 times longer because you’re arguing with half the board throughout them. So again, no need to keep track. Don’t flatter yourself, you’re not that cool, trust me

[vikeinmontana]

What kind of bourbon in your old fashioned? I’m a liquor store owner so always curious. Ironically more of a wine guy but my bourbon portfolio is pretty awesome!

Anyway, I just wanted to comment. Obviously lulls in every game are bad. But it’s kinda what I was trying to get across in that other thread. What can we do to minimize these lulls? Play high school teams.

You give me any team in the league. Bills, Eagles, Chiefs etc. I’ll be able to find you these same lulls on offense and defense easy. We’ll continue seeing these lulls in every game as long as the competition is great. I for one think that is why the NFL is so special.

Kapp you know I see eye to eye with you on nearly every post. And you’re not even wrong here. Lulls are bad. If I had my choice I want our offense to score touchdowns every possession and our defense to get three and outs if they don’t get a turnover first. Zero lulls. But I have yet to see that.

My opinion? We’ll always have these lulls, on both sides of the ball, because there are incredible athletes on the other team making enough money to set up their grandkids grandkids to see that we have a lull or two every game.

Lately I’ve been drinking Basil Hayden Toast.

As for the lulls, I’m talking about those that let teams back into games. Yes, other teams are going to fight like crazy. I get it. They get paid, too. But the Vikings have scored six total points in the third quarter. So my comment is really about the team identifying areas of improvement and working to get better, not about being perfect.

I’m guessing KOC has been working on things like that during the bye week. Self scouting.

Totally fair.

That basil hayden is awesome. Liquor in Montana is a mess right now but can still get that occasionally.

[vikeinmontana]

The big picture is not 5-1

But it is Stump. I know you’re a stats guy, and I appreciate your posts. But when all is said and done, all that matters is your W/L record. As it stands we’d be a top seed. If we do the exact same thing the rest of the way, we’d be a top seed with 14+ wins.

Now I’m not saying we will just because we have. I understand strength of schedule and deficiencies. And I can’t see the future. But either can you. This is what I’ve been saying. We could have 15 wins before the playoffs and you’d be able to point to areas we weren’t good at. Because there WILL be areas we’re not good at. But in the end, you are what your record says you are.

[vikeinmontana]

First off Vikeinmontana, what are some good value bourbons that you suggest?

Bourbons are just silly right now. People have lost their minds. Liquor is trendy like everything else so if someone sees a bourbon in a magazine, on tv, endorsed by a celebrity etc. they go through the roof. Supply and demand and all that jazz.

Two years ago I sold Buffalo Trace for about $35 a bottle. It got trendy, became really hard to get, and now I get $200 a bottle any time I can get my hands on it. It’s good, but not $200 good. But as long as people are willing to pay that, I’d be an idiot to lower it.

It all started with Pappy Van Winkle, and trickled down to Weller, Blantons, Eagle Rare, George T Stagg, EH Taylor, Buffalo Trace etc. All good bourbons, but not worth near what those trying to keep up with the Joneses are willing to pay.

For full disclosure, I have them all and enjoy them. But here’s a few I’ve been enjoying and won’t break the bank.

Four Roses
Jefferson’s
Angels Envy
High West
Sam Houston
Elijah Craig
Wathens

Though if I’m being totally honest, I still think the best bang for your buck; 35-40 bucks a bottle; Woodford Reserve. I always tell people I can take any bottle of bourbon home regardless of cost, and Woodford is my go-to.

Skol!

[psjordan]

Four Roses
Jefferson’s
Angels Envy
High West
Sam Houston
Elijah Craig
Wathens

Though if I’m being totally honest, I still think the best bang for your buck; 35-40 bucks a bottle; Woodford Reserve. I always tell people I can take any bottle of bourbon home regardless of cost, and Woodford is my go-to.

Skol!

I know this is all OT but I had to chime in. I'm a Woodford Double Oaked guy myself - it's my drinker and also my go-to gift. I like Jefferson's as well but those I know "trying to keep up" can't get past the "aged at sea" stuff. Doesn't matter to me, I like it. I started on Four Roses many years ago, it's faded a bit for me. Also Elijah Craig now and again for me. The rest of your list I'm not familiar with, but now I have something to shoot for this weekend