Who did the Vikings want at 8?

[StumpHunter]

It is kind of ironic that Spielman will be praised if his trade back move works out well and Darrisaw, Davis and Monds turn out to be studs as pros and the team enjoys a lot of success as a result and Fields tanks, when in fact had he been successful in trading up and Fields tanked, he would have been panned.

If it was Fields Rick tried to trade up for (and like you I think it was) and Fields succeeds, people will rip Spielman for being unwilling to give up next year's 1st for a franchise QB. If he fails, people will rip him for wanting to trade up for a bad QB. Kind of a no win for him unless like you say Darrisaw, Davis and Mond all work out great while Fields sucks. People will forget that Rick almost blew it if everything works out great in the end.

[VikingLord]

Slater was highly rated, sure, but I saw plenty of mocks and position rankings that didn't have Slater rated above Darrisaw or AVT. While he was in the top tier of OL in this draft, I find it hard to accept that the Vikings were willing to give up significant draft capital to move up to take any OL. If they were that desperate for OL, it is also odd that when their pick at #14 game around and two of the top OL prospects were still available, they then traded down and risked all of them being gone by the time their 1st rounder came up.

A move up like the one the Vikings wanted to make almost had to be for a player who was certain to be gone by the time their pick came up, and that had to be Fields. More than likely they felt he should have gone top 5 and moving up that high was beyond reach, but when he fell into a range where they could afford to move up I think that is the play they wanted to make.

I think they'll be glad their attempt failed. Moving back and getting the value they got along the OL has a much higher chance of success than Fields turning into a franchise QB as a pro.

It is kind of ironic that Spielman will be praised if his trade back move works out well and Darrisaw, Davis and Monds turn out to be studs as pros and the team enjoys a lot of success as a result and Fields tanks, when in fact had he been successful in trading up and Fields tanked, he would have been panned.

Wouldn't the Vikings have been less motivated to give up draft capital to move up for Fields considering we already have Cousins?
And yes. Spielman may have been good, but he was also lucky.

Depends on which side of the coin Rick chose to look at in his decision-making process.

If he chose to look at it from a "needs" basis, then your point is well-taken. The Vikings have Cousins and are set at QB, so there is no need there, while there is a need along the OL. That would make it logical for the move up to be an OL, and Slater seemed to be the OL du jour at that point.

If he chose to look at from a BPA perspective and was convinced Fields was a special QB ala how KC viewed Aaron Rodgers' "Mahomie" a few years ago, then Fields was the choice.

Since only Rick knows if he prefers "heads" or "tails" when he's flipping coins in the draft, he very well could have been targeting Slater.

[VikingLord]

It is kind of ironic that Spielman will be praised if his trade back move works out well and Darrisaw, Davis and Monds turn out to be studs as pros and the team enjoys a lot of success as a result and Fields tanks, when in fact had he been successful in trading up and Fields tanked, he would have been panned.

If it was Fields Rick tried to trade up for (and like you I think it was) and Fields succeeds, people will rip Spielman for being unwilling to give up next year's 1st for a franchise QB. If he fails, people will rip him for wanting to trade up for a bad QB. Kind of a no win for him unless like you say Darrisaw, Davis and Mond all work out great while Fields sucks. People will forget that Rick almost blew it if everything works out great in the end.

Moral of the story - only hindsight is capable of rendering judgment.

Footnote to the above - Luck is a hugely under-appreciated factor in success.

[Maelstrom88]

I would not have liked them giving up a future first for Fields. Sometimes the best traded are the ones you don't make. I would much rather have the haul we got and next year's first.

[StumpHunter]

If it was Fields Rick tried to trade up for (and like you I think it was) and Fields succeeds, people will rip Spielman for being unwilling to give up next year's 1st for a franchise QB. If he fails, people will rip him for wanting to trade up for a bad QB. Kind of a no win for him unless like you say Darrisaw, Davis and Mond all work out great while Fields sucks. People will forget that Rick almost blew it if everything works out great in the end.

Moral of the story - only hindsight is capable of rendering judgment.

Footnote to the above - Luck is a hugely under-appreciated factor in success.

I wouldn't use the term hindsight, since that has negative connotations and judging a GM based on the results of their drafts is not hindsight, it is how you should judge them.

It also doesn't take hindsight to say that if a GM really likes a QB and think they are a future star, they should do whatever it takes to get them.

Luck does play a factor. If the Bears end up hitting pay dirt with Fields, they would have been very lucky he fell far enough for them to be able to trade up and get him. Carolina and Denver wouldn't have been unlucky for not drafting Fields though, they would have just made a terrible decision.

All that being said, since the Bears took Fields he will be a disaster at QB and we probably dodged a bullet with Rick being lucky Carolina turned down his trade.

[Foreman44]

No fact just gut feeling. Could be totally wrong.. my gut says fields will not pan out special. As discussed often. Qbs drafted with very high expectations are more often than not. BUSTS..Look at the Bears with Trabiski, late example, but maybe a chance, Mond May bust, but the expectations are not there as with Fields.y

Wouldn’t it be something to see our players drafted in his spot. The ones we drafted and ones we saved our picks pan out stars. Fields becomes a journey,

Maybe I am wrong, maybe he Stars

We all have opinions about the players drafted. Mond has expectations and needs to take over in two years max. However after starting nearly 4 years he's still considered a developmental guy. This is what concerns me "He’s a good athlete for his size, and he runs tough." We have a guy who can run tough his name is Cook. We need a guy who can throw tough. Thread the needle from any angle, hang in against heavy pressure, throw all different type of passes, has tremendous accuracy, has touch ect.... In other words be a QB. Most experts come out with this BS that a team has no chance unless you have a dual threat at QB. Then they think for once and say except for Brady and Rodgers ect..... The Pats currently have a dual threat former MVP QB and drafted a potential upgrade in round 1. Wonder why? Because his passing skills blow. But he's a good athlete and runner. You need to be able to pass the ball in today's game. Most rules are bent to favor the passing game. This isn't early 1970's football anymore. What Speilman picked is TJack act 2. I already seen act 1 and I don't need it again. It's boring football. Everybody has an opinion about Cousins also. What everybody forgets is he plays behind a swiss cheese offensive line. No QB performs well under that scenario just ask Mahomes. Speilman's view of an upgrade is draft a couple guys. Don't even worry about getting the blue chip player just get a guy. I don't agree with that approach at all. How can a GM think of not bringing in competition for Bradbury and Cleveland? They can't hold the point. It's hard to play QB with that going on in front of you. I seen them all crumble when that goes on. The Chiefs adjusted the CAP and brought in proven NFL players to help their QB. Speilman can't see that path. He's blinded and stuck in his way of doing things. That will never change. The plan now is to throw two rookies against the wolves. Good luck to the kids and good luck to Cousins health. Maybe he'll get knocked out and we can see the future this year.

You said it.. We all have opinions. Most opinionsg are more ones feeling, not fact on how one performs. Fact. I cannot project as fact that fields will succeed or fail.Nor can anyone the same with Mond.,Reality, the same can be said about Lawrence,Lance, hones or any other QB.

I am not disagreeing with much of what you said. You may be right on the money on Mond. He may not pan out worth a hill of beans. I will hope he pans out a Star.

Same with guys like Field, Lawrence.Lance, Jones etc. More than likely someone shine. Chances are some will be the trabiski’s or other star draftee hopefuls of past that flopped. I just hope we hit the jackpot of luck

[CharVike]

We all have opinions about the players drafted. Mond has expectations and needs to take over in two years max. However after starting nearly 4 years he's still considered a developmental guy. This is what concerns me "He’s a good athlete for his size, and he runs tough." We have a guy who can run tough his name is Cook. We need a guy who can throw tough. Thread the needle from any angle, hang in against heavy pressure, throw all different type of passes, has tremendous accuracy, has touch ect.... In other words be a QB. Most experts come out with this BS that a team has no chance unless you have a dual threat at QB. Then they think for once and say except for Brady and Rodgers ect..... The Pats currently have a dual threat former MVP QB and drafted a potential upgrade in round 1. Wonder why? Because his passing skills blow. But he's a good athlete and runner. You need to be able to pass the ball in today's game. Most rules are bent to favor the passing game. This isn't early 1970's football anymore. What Speilman picked is TJack act 2. I already seen act 1 and I don't need it again. It's boring football. Everybody has an opinion about Cousins also. What everybody forgets is he plays behind a swiss cheese offensive line. No QB performs well under that scenario just ask Mahomes. Speilman's view of an upgrade is draft a couple guys. Don't even worry about getting the blue chip player just get a guy. I don't agree with that approach at all. How can a GM think of not bringing in competition for Bradbury and Cleveland? They can't hold the point. It's hard to play QB with that going on in front of you. I seen them all crumble when that goes on. The Chiefs adjusted the CAP and brought in proven NFL players to help their QB. Speilman can't see that path. He's blinded and stuck in his way of doing things. That will never change. The plan now is to throw two rookies against the wolves. Good luck to the kids and good luck to Cousins health. Maybe he'll get knocked out and we can see the future this year.

You said it.. We all have opinions. Most opinionsg are more ones feeling, not fact on how one performs. Fact. I cannot project as fact that fields will succeed or fail.Nor can anyone the same with Mond.,Reality, the same can be said about Lawrence,Lance, hones or any other QB.

I am not disagreeing with much of what you said. You may be right on the money on Mond. He may not pan out worth a hill of beans. I will hope he pans out a Star.

Same with guys like Field, Lawrence.Lance, Jones etc. More than likely someone shine. Chances are some will be the trabiski’s or other star draftee hopefuls of past that flopped. I just hope we hit the jackpot of luck

Feelings play a bigger roll than a players performance there is no doubt about that. We have a good team and some very good and exciting players on offense. I give Speilman credit for that. I was hoping Speilman would look to improve the OL besides just the draft. The two guys he picked are fine prospects. They should become good players. But I don't expect that to happen right off the bat. That's unfair expectations. So that puts our QB in a very tough spot. No QB functions very well with weak pass blocking. Speilman doesn't see this and that's what POs me more than anything. I hope Fields bust and I think he will. If he turns out to be great and plays under a nothing CAP deal for 5 years they will probably be back in the Super Bowl soon. That would be a kick in the arse for sure.

[VikingTom]

No fact just gut feeling. Could be totally wrong.. my gut says fields will not pan out special. As discussed often. Qbs drafted with very high expectations are more often than not. BUSTS..Look at the Bears with Trabiski, late example, but maybe a chance, Mond May bust, but the expectations are not there as with Fields.

Wouldn’t it be something to see our players drafted in his spot. The ones we drafted and ones we saved our picks pan out stars. Fields becomes a journey,

Maybe I am wrong, maybe he Stars

Drafting a QB in the early part of the 1st round always carries risks. The expectations are high, yet few will attain an elite status. Certainly the fan base wants elite, and merely being good is often viewed as a failure for a high pick. Then of course regardless of position, there will be those who fail to attain even average production. There are few true certainties in the draft, just as there are a few later picks that surprise.

[VikingsVictorious]

No fact just gut feeling. Could be totally wrong.. my gut says fields will not pan out special. As discussed often. Qbs drafted with very high expectations are more often than not. BUSTS..Look at the Bears with Trabiski, late example, but maybe a chance, Mond May bust, but the expectations are not there as with Fields.

Wouldn’t it be something to see our players drafted in his spot. The ones we drafted and ones we saved our picks pan out stars. Fields becomes a journey,

Maybe I am wrong, maybe he Stars

Drafting a QB in the early part of the 1st round always carries risks. The expectations are high, yet few will attain an elite status. Certainly the fan base wants elite, and merely being good is often viewed as a failure for a high pick. Then of course regardless of position, there will be those who fail to attain even average production. There are few true certainties in the draft, just as there are a few later picks that surprise.

There are no certainties in the draft, but highly drafted OL and RBs almost always turn out great. Even Mat Kahlil was very good initially. QBs are far more risky, but a higher payoff if you hit on it. No risk = no reward.

[IIsweet]

I have been against Spielman and hsi trade down to accumulate 6th and 7th rd picks and very much against it. I feel that 3rd rd talent far exceeds multiple 7th rders.
With this draft, I was trading down in every mock I did to accumulate multiple 2nd and 3rds. I felt that it was a very deep OL draft and the WR group for the 2nd year in a row was deep with talent. So when we traded down and got 2 3rds... I was a little skeptical, because I would have preferred a 2nd, but that may not have been on the table.
To get Darrisaw, Mond, and Davis is in my opinion an AWESOME deal. I cannot believe we got all 3 of them !!
I had Darrisaw as a top 3-4 LT. Davis was a top 2 OG, and Mond to me is the kid who could be the Russell Wilson of the draft. The kid wins !!! Give me that all day long.

So if they were willing to move up to 8, and it didn't work out, I am in no way upset that it didn't, I think it worked out perfectly.
I was getting pretty excited on draft day as our pick kept getting closer and Fields was still there.
Hindsight, I am happier with what we have, than what we could have had !!!

[VikingsVictorious]

I have been against Spielman and hsi trade down to accumulate 6th and 7th rd picks and very much against it. I feel that 3rd rd talent far exceeds multiple 7th rders.
With this draft, I was trading down in every mock I did to accumulate multiple 2nd and 3rds. I felt that it was a very deep OL draft and the WR group for the 2nd year in a row was deep with talent. So when we traded down and got 2 3rds... I was a little skeptical, because I would have preferred a 2nd, but that may not have been on the table.
To get Darrisaw, Mond, and Davis is in my opinion an AWESOME deal. I cannot believe we got all 3 of them !!
I had Darrisaw as a top 3-4 LT. Davis was a top 2 OG, and Mond to me is the kid who could be the Russell Wilson of the draft. The kid wins !!! Give me that all day long.

So if they were willing to move up to 8, and it didn't work out, I am in no way upset that it didn't, I think it worked out perfectly.
I was getting pretty excited on draft day as our pick kept getting closer and Fields was still there.
Hindsight, I am happier with what we have, than what we could have had !!!

I'm very much in agreement with you on the Value of the three players we got in the trade. I can't see how it possibly could have worked out any better. As for Rick trading back and accumulating late picks I think that usually went pretty well. It seemed he usually got the player he would have drafted if he hadn't traded back (Mattison) plus the small asset of the late picks. It seemed we only got burned a time or two. I think they wanted Ian Smith but got sniped and settled for Conklin. Trading back and getting Samia at the time looked great, but Samia is now looking like a bust.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I have been against Spielman and hsi trade down to accumulate 6th and 7th rd picks and very much against it. I feel that 3rd rd talent far exceeds multiple 7th rders.
With this draft, I was trading down in every mock I did to accumulate multiple 2nd and 3rds. I felt that it was a very deep OL draft and the WR group for the 2nd year in a row was deep with talent. So when we traded down and got 2 3rds... I was a little skeptical, because I would have preferred a 2nd, but that may not have been on the table.
To get Darrisaw, Mond, and Davis is in my opinion an AWESOME deal. I cannot believe we got all 3 of them !!
I had Darrisaw as a top 3-4 LT. Davis was a top 2 OG, and Mond to me is the kid who could be the Russell Wilson of the draft. The kid wins !!! Give me that all day long.

So if they were willing to move up to 8, and it didn't work out, I am in no way upset that it didn't, I think it worked out perfectly.
I was getting pretty excited on draft day as our pick kept getting closer and Fields was still there.
Hindsight, I am happier with what we have, than what we could have had !!!

I agree that it worked out perfectly IMO.

In terms of the Spielman trading down part.... when Paton left for Denver, it came out that Paton was actually the big "trade down for later picks guy". I kind of said to myself, I'll believe it when I see it. However, in this years draft, outside of our initial round 1 trade down, Spielman never budged and even tried to make a big trade up in round 1. So I'm starting to believe this was true. I honestly couldnt tell you the last time the Vikings didnt move around in the mid to late rounds of a draft. I feel like the Vikings went into the draft this year with a completely different style approach. So it makes me wonder how big of a voice Paton was in previous drafts. I'm starting to think it was bigger than many might think. Especially in terms of trading.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I have been against Spielman and hsi trade down to accumulate 6th and 7th rd picks and very much against it. I feel that 3rd rd talent far exceeds multiple 7th rders.
With this draft, I was trading down in every mock I did to accumulate multiple 2nd and 3rds. I felt that it was a very deep OL draft and the WR group for the 2nd year in a row was deep with talent. So when we traded down and got 2 3rds... I was a little skeptical, because I would have preferred a 2nd, but that may not have been on the table.
To get Darrisaw, Mond, and Davis is in my opinion an AWESOME deal. I cannot believe we got all 3 of them !!
I had Darrisaw as a top 3-4 LT. Davis was a top 2 OG, and Mond to me is the kid who could be the Russell Wilson of the draft. The kid wins !!! Give me that all day long.

So if they were willing to move up to 8, and it didn't work out, I am in no way upset that it didn't, I think it worked out perfectly.
I was getting pretty excited on draft day as our pick kept getting closer and Fields was still there.
Hindsight, I am happier with what we have, than what we could have had !!!

I'm very much in agreement with you on the Value of the three players we got in the trade. I can't see how it possibly could have worked out any better. As for Rick trading back and accumulating late picks I think that usually went pretty well. It seemed he usually got the player he would have drafted if he hadn't traded back (Mattison) plus the small asset of the late picks. It seemed we only got burned a time or two. I think they wanted Ian Smith but got sniped and settled for Conklin. Trading back and getting Samia at the time looked great, but Samia is now looking like a bust.

I think you mean Ian Thomas? But to be honest, I think Conklin was an excellent pick that late. He's made some clutch catches and is a good complement to Irv. But yeah Samia is 100% a flop at this point. But you can say that for any GM in the NFL to be honest. It's all a crap shoot.

[VikingsVictorious]

I'm very much in agreement with you on the Value of the three players we got in the trade. I can't see how it possibly could have worked out any better. As for Rick trading back and accumulating late picks I think that usually went pretty well. It seemed he usually got the player he would have drafted if he hadn't traded back (Mattison) plus the small asset of the late picks. It seemed we only got burned a time or two. I think they wanted Ian Smith but got sniped and settled for Conklin. Trading back and getting Samia at the time looked great, but Samia is now looking like a bust.

I think you mean Ian Thomas? But to be honest, I think Conklin was an excellent pick that late. He's made some clutch catches and is a good complement to Irv. But yeah Samia is 100% a flop at this point. But you can say that for any GM in the NFL to be honest. It's all a crap shoot.

Yeah it was Ian Thomas. Whether it worked out in the end or not wasn't the point I was making. The point was the trade backs almost never cost us. We got who we were going to get anyway. Conklin I'm still very much undecided about at this time.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I think you mean Ian Thomas? But to be honest, I think Conklin was an excellent pick that late. He's made some clutch catches and is a good complement to Irv. But yeah Samia is 100% a flop at this point. But you can say that for any GM in the NFL to be honest. It's all a crap shoot.

Yeah it was Ian Thomas. Whether it worked out in the end or not wasn't the point I was making. The point was the trade backs almost never cost us. We got who we were going to get anyway. Conklin I'm still very much undecided about at this time.

Oh no I agree I've said that from day 1. The difference between, for example, 4th round talent and 5th round talent is marginal at best. So if you trade back from round 4 to round 5 and maybe gain an extra 7th, more power to ya. I would take my chances on 2 players over 1 player at that point in the draft. I've always said I liked their philosophy behind that. The more players you bring in, the better the chances of hitting on picks.

Whereas if you are the 2020 Saints and give up your 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th ALL to the Vikings for a 3rd round TE, that's just flat out stupid on the Saints part. Just part of the reason why the Saints are quickly starting to crumble.