Vikings tried to trade up for Fields

[CharVike]

The Bears had no problem moving up ... The Bears saw a player that could change the franchise and made the move. That's a chance that needs to be taken.

Never thought I'd see a post defending the Bears approach to drafting QB's [Mitch Trubisky has entered the chat].

Rick mentioned in one of the interviews that he was not interested in moving up AT THE PRICE BEING DEMANDED. One writer used the word "shocked", as in the Vikes FO was shocked at the price paid for Fields. I have no issue with Mond vs Fields at the respective prices asked for/paid. No guarantees on drafted QB's and all that.

Admittedly, over the years Rick has had a very tough time moving up at the price he wants to pay. Makes me think either he's out of touch on what it takes to move up in the draft or there are a bunch of cooler heads in the draft room.

I am certainly not disgruntled with this draft, although I may not quite be gruntled. This is about as close to a "wait and see" draft as I can recall.

Rick said he couldn't move and I said that's BS because the Bears did it. I never said anything about the QB the bears selected but I think he sucks. Rick goes down because it's easy. Moving up takes balls. You need to know how to get it and not be afraid. He also called the 3rd round premium. I've never heard the 3rd round mentioned as premium in my 50 years of following this. He's lost his mind. This GM job has taken it's toll. He's at the point were he will do the same thing over and over. I knew he would trade down because that's what he does. End of story. If he was offered pick 1 for the 11th pick and a 3rd he would have said it's to expensive. His mind was made up months ago. The player he wanted was known months ago. That's not working the draft. Lawerence could have slide to us and he would have passed. "Not what we needed" would have been the excuse. You pick Lawerence now your sitting on gold. Now start dealing and the chips will come flying. And not premium picks but 1st rounders. He can't handle that type of action. Jimmy Johnson could. If he lets Rodgers take him out again it's over.

[VikingsVictorious]

Never thought I'd see a post defending the Bears approach to drafting QB's [Mitch Trubisky has entered the chat].

Rick mentioned in one of the interviews that he was not interested in moving up AT THE PRICE BEING DEMANDED. One writer used the word "shocked", as in the Vikes FO was shocked at the price paid for Fields. I have no issue with Mond vs Fields at the respective prices asked for/paid. No guarantees on drafted QB's and all that.

Admittedly, over the years Rick has had a very tough time moving up at the price he wants to pay. Makes me think either he's out of touch on what it takes to move up in the draft or there are a bunch of cooler heads in the draft room.

I am certainly not disgruntled with this draft, although I may not quite be gruntled. This is about as close to a "wait and see" draft as I can recall.

Rick said he couldn't move and I said that's BS because the Bears did it. I never said anything about the QB the bears selected but I think he sucks. Rick goes down because it's easy. Moving up takes balls. You need to know how to get it and not be afraid. He also called the 3rd round premium. I've never heard the 3rd round mentioned as premium in my 50 years of following this. He's lost his mind. This GM job has taken it's toll. He's at the point were he will do the same thing over and over. I knew he would trade down because that's what he does. End of story. If he was offered pick 1 for the 11th pick and a 3rd he would have said it's to expensive. His mind was made up months ago. The player he wanted was known months ago. That's not working the draft. Lawerence could have slide to us and he would have passed. "Not what we needed" would have been the excuse. You pick Lawerence now your sitting on gold. Now start dealing and the chips will come flying. And not premium picks but 1st rounders. He can't handle that type of action. Jimmy Johnson could. If he lets Rodgers take him out again it's over.

Of course he could have moved up. You can always move up. All it takes is your next 5 seasons of first through 4th round picks. I doubt if any team would turn you down for that offer. However, it often makes zero sense to move up. Rick did the exactly right thing in this draft. He moved down, got the LT he would have drafted at 14 anyway and also got a potentially very good QBotF and a good guard. Spectacular job by Slick Rick.

[fiestavike]

Haha i tweeted at RG3 right after he made this idiot comment. I said

Hey RG3, are you mad that Kirk took your job? Are you mad that Kirk is better than you? Are you mad that Kirk has made way more money than you? Are you mad that Kirk is still starting and you are riding the pine and have been for a long time? Sounds to me that you are just Jelly.

gross.

[StumpHunter]

Rick said he couldn't move and I said that's BS because the Bears did it. I never said anything about the QB the bears selected but I think he sucks. Rick goes down because it's easy. Moving up takes balls. You need to know how to get it and not be afraid. He also called the 3rd round premium. I've never heard the 3rd round mentioned as premium in my 50 years of following this. He's lost his mind. This GM job has taken it's toll. He's at the point were he will do the same thing over and over. I knew he would trade down because that's what he does. End of story. If he was offered pick 1 for the 11th pick and a 3rd he would have said it's to expensive. His mind was made up months ago. The player he wanted was known months ago. That's not working the draft. Lawerence could have slide to us and he would have passed. "Not what we needed" would have been the excuse. You pick Lawerence now your sitting on gold. Now start dealing and the chips will come flying. And not premium picks but 1st rounders. He can't handle that type of action. Jimmy Johnson could. If he lets Rodgers take him out again it's over.

Of course he could have moved up. You can always move up. All it takes is your next 5 seasons of first through 4th round picks. I doubt if any team would turn you down for that offer. However, it often makes zero sense to move up. Rick did the exactly right thing in this draft. He moved down, got the LT he would have drafted at 14 anyway and also got a potentially very good QBotF and a good guard. Spectacular job by Slick Rick.

When you trade down in the first it is usually because you have a bunch of guys similarly graded and are okay with getting any of them. The Vikings for instance likely had Leatherwood, Darrisaw, Paye and Phillips all at the same value and were okay with taking any of them at 23 if they fell. That isn't necessarily being "slick" it is letting the draft board dictate your pick.

[StumpHunter]

MOVING UP to draft a QB in the first and jeopardizing the team's future would have been the height of stupidity, with the potential of absolutely wrecking the team if he busts.

You have to weigh the risks versus the likelihood of the reward. Moving up to draft a QB in the first was a brilliant move for KC in 2017, because Mahomes was worth that risk. I don't think Fields was worth a 1st and 3rd (what it probably would have taken to move up) based on how good of a prospect he is, and apparently neither did the GM. If it was for a better prospect, like if that was Zack Wilson falling, you absolutely give up a 1st and a 3rd or even what Chicago gave up, to go get him.

[J. Kapp 11]

MOVING UP to draft a QB in the first and jeopardizing the team's future would have been the height of stupidity, with the potential of absolutely wrecking the team if he busts.

You have to weigh the risks versus the likelihood of the reward. Moving up to draft a QB in the first was a brilliant move for KC in 2017, because Mahomes was worth that risk. I don't think Fields was worth a 1st and 3rd (what it probably would have taken to move up) based on how good of a prospect he is, and apparently neither did the GM. If it was for a better prospect, like if that was Zack Wilson falling, you absolutely give up a 1st and a 3rd or even what Chicago gave up, to go get him.

All this is true.

My comment is based on the context that we already have a quarterback we're paying $76 million over the next two years. Chicago has Andy Dalton. They're in a different situation.

If we think about this from the perspective of a teammate of Cousins, it changes things. Let's say I'm a guy who has just been through a tough contract negotiation. I didn't get everything I wanted or deserved, but I got a lot of it. I got some security, and I do have some loyalty to the organization. All the while, I know my quarterback is making $76 million guaranteed, and that's a big reason why I couldn't get everything I wanted.

Now my team drafts a quarterback in the first round. And it not only drafts a quarterback, but trades up to do it. How do you think I feel at this point?

I'm going, "Wait a minute. You can't pay me what I want because you're up against the cap. You're up against the cap because of Kirk Cousins. And now you give up draft choices and weaken the rest of the team just so you can replace him?"

Everybody on the team earning a paycheck would take offense to it. They're all going, "They're paying this guy the most money in the league, and they don't even believe in him." That's what I mean by destroying the locker room.

On the other hand, if I'm on a team like Chicago that has no legitimate starting quarterback, I'm saying, "Heck yes ... trade up ... do what it takes ... we need a quarterback!" In other words, it made perfect sense for Chicago. It made perfect sense for KC because Andy Reid believed Mahomes was a generational talent, and Alex Smith had one year left on his deal. But given what we're paying Cousins, it would have made no sense for us to draft Fields, and less sense to move up to do it.

Then you have a situation like Green Bay. Instead of getting Rodgers a weapon, the Packers basically said, "Sorry HOF quarterback. We plan to move on from you." And I guarantee you, most of the players on that team, particularly the veterans, looked at the choice of Jordan Love and asked, "What the hell are they doing? We've got Aaron Freaking Rodgers! We don't need this guy. We need somebody who can actually play."

Drafting players isn't done in a vacuum. The team has to weigh all the consequences. Kirk Cousins is a good guy, a mature dude. But I guarantee you, in the back of his mind, he's thinking, "Kellen Mond in the third? Guess I'm not retiring a Viking after all." You can't blame him if he takes it as a bit of a slap in the face.

[Bowhunting Viking]

Haha i tweeted at RG3 right after he made this idiot comment. I said

Hey RG3, are you mad that Kirk took your job? Are you mad that Kirk is better than you? Are you mad that Kirk has made way more money than you? Are you mad that Kirk is still starting and you are riding the pine and have been for a long time? Sounds to me that you are just Jelly.

Guess that's why he was called RGMe.

You are correct on this nickname. That comes from direct statements from one of RG3's lineman. The guy definitely was NOT well liked a very large number of teammates. The best one I heard was " If he was on fire I wouldn't even stop to piss on him". I was told that he was not at all the Mr. Humble All about Team guy that he played up in the media. Said he was a pampered , arrogant pampered entitled guy. And Snyder's man crush on him and the favoritism he showed him and his girlfriend (future wife) made it even worse. I heard quite a few stories. The arrogant/embarrassing way that he and his bride treated the workers that were serving at his wedding really sticks out. All in all the guy was a total jerk. His fall from grace wasn't mourned for sure

[CharVike]

Rick said he couldn't move and I said that's BS because the Bears did it. I never said anything about the QB the bears selected but I think he sucks. Rick goes down because it's easy. Moving up takes balls. You need to know how to get it and not be afraid. He also called the 3rd round premium. I've never heard the 3rd round mentioned as premium in my 50 years of following this. He's lost his mind. This GM job has taken it's toll. He's at the point were he will do the same thing over and over. I knew he would trade down because that's what he does. End of story. If he was offered pick 1 for the 11th pick and a 3rd he would have said it's to expensive. His mind was made up months ago. The player he wanted was known months ago. That's not working the draft. Lawerence could have slide to us and he would have passed. "Not what we needed" would have been the excuse. You pick Lawerence now your sitting on gold. Now start dealing and the chips will come flying. And not premium picks but 1st rounders. He can't handle that type of action. Jimmy Johnson could. If he lets Rodgers take him out again it's over.

Of course he could have moved up. You can always move up. All it takes is your next 5 seasons of first through 4th round picks. I doubt if any team would turn you down for that offer. However, it often makes zero sense to move up. Rick did the exactly right thing in this draft. He moved down, got the LT he would have drafted at 14 anyway and also got a potentially very good QBotF and a good guard. Spectacular job by Slick Rick.

I looked at Ricks past draft and he has had the most success in round 2. Basically hits it out of the park.
2nd Round
2020 — Ezra Cleveland (T) 58
2019 — Irv Smith Jr. (TE) 50
2018 — Brian O’Neill (T) 62
2017 — Dalvin Cook (RB) 41
2016 — Mackensie Alexander (CB) 54
2015 — Eric Kendricks (ILB) 45
That's a fantastic job. He called round 3 premo no round 2 is premo and he had nothing because he was unwilling to trade up. He's into body count over getting the best bodies. The amount of 7th round picks he has had is incredible. 1 player Bisi. That should register at some point that those picks have very little value.

[StumpHunter]

Of course he could have moved up. You can always move up. All it takes is your next 5 seasons of first through 4th round picks. I doubt if any team would turn you down for that offer. However, it often makes zero sense to move up. Rick did the exactly right thing in this draft. He moved down, got the LT he would have drafted at 14 anyway and also got a potentially very good QBotF and a good guard. Spectacular job by Slick Rick.

I looked at Ricks past draft and he has had the most success in round 2. Basically hits it out of the park.
2nd Round
2020 — Ezra Cleveland (T) 58
2019 — Irv Smith Jr. (TE) 50
2018 — Brian O’Neill (T) 62
2017 — Dalvin Cook (RB) 41
2016 — Mackensie Alexander (CB) 54
2015 — Eric Kendricks (ILB) 45
That's a fantastic job. He called round 3 premo no round 2 is premo and he had nothing because he was unwilling to trade up. He's into body count over getting the best bodies. The amount of 7th round picks he has had is incredible. 1 player Bisi. That should register at some point that those picks have very little value.

Of those listed I would say Kendricks and Cook are out of the park picks, with O'Neil being a stand up do double. The rest are solid singles which is still pretty good.

Going back to 2011, he has done a good job in the 3rd too though. Hunter is the best draft pick of Rick's career and Dantzler looks like a solid CB if he can bulk up a little. Mattison and Mckinnon were both good backup RBs for us as well.

He has had 7 picks in each of those rounds since 2011 which is probably the lowest number of picks in round 2 and 3 of any team, but he has also picked better in those rounds than most teams during that time period. Ironically the rounds he covets picks in, 4,5,6 and 7 he has had the most picks and done the worst.

This year he didn't appear to really want those late round picks so maybe he is finally learning.

[CharVike]

I looked at Ricks past draft and he has had the most success in round 2. Basically hits it out of the park.
2nd Round
2020 — Ezra Cleveland (T) 58
2019 — Irv Smith Jr. (TE) 50
2018 — Brian O’Neill (T) 62
2017 — Dalvin Cook (RB) 41
2016 — Mackensie Alexander (CB) 54
2015 — Eric Kendricks (ILB) 45
That's a fantastic job. He called round 3 premo no round 2 is premo and he had nothing because he was unwilling to trade up. He's into body count over getting the best bodies. The amount of 7th round picks he has had is incredible. 1 player Bisi. That should register at some point that those picks have very little value.

Of those listed I would say Kendricks and Cook are out of the park picks, with O'Neil being a stand up do double. The rest are solid singles which is still pretty good.

Going back to 2011, he has done a good job in the 3rd too though. Hunter is the best draft pick of Rick's career and Dantzler looks like a solid CB if he can bulk up a little. Mattison and Mckinnon were both good backup RBs for us as well.

He has had 7 picks in each of those rounds since 2011 which is probably the lowest number of picks in round 2 and 3 of any team, but he has also picked better in those rounds than most teams during that time period. Ironically the rounds he covets picks in, 4,5,6 and 7 he has had the most picks and done the worst.

This year he didn't appear to really want those late round picks so maybe he is finally learning.

This year he had a pick to move up. If your sitting at 20 something forget it. At our pick we could have moved up for Surtain. That's a great cover guy. That's what is needed. He picks CBs put he doesn't get in the spot for the studs. Dantzler did well. Do I see him as a shut down guy eventually? No. That's why these picks are made and then told to hit the road. We need to defend against that guy in Green Bay. That's not easy. Of course it all starts with pass rush. This year I liked the QB that fell to us. You pick him and these teams later in the draft who have zero chance of getting a QB would be begging you for that player. That's how you make a killing. You call the shot at that point because there will be multiple teams involved. He didn't even consider that. And it pisses me off because we will never be in that spot again. That was a once in a career shot and he ignored it. Instead of having a couple 3rds your walking away with multiple 1st and that's just getting the ball rolling. Then it's 2nd ect.... The Lions got the farm for there guy. Doesn't Rick see that? He's in a habit. That will never change. If he's still around next year it will be the same old. We don't have the talent for the big prize but we won't be picking as low.

[CharVike]

Of those listed I would say Kendricks and Cook are out of the park picks, with O'Neil being a stand up do double. The rest are solid singles which is still pretty good.

Going back to 2011, he has done a good job in the 3rd too though. Hunter is the best draft pick of Rick's career and Dantzler looks like a solid CB if he can bulk up a little. Mattison and Mckinnon were both good backup RBs for us as well.

He has had 7 picks in each of those rounds since 2011 which is probably the lowest number of picks in round 2 and 3 of any team, but he has also picked better in those rounds than most teams during that time period. Ironically the rounds he covets picks in, 4,5,6 and 7 he has had the most picks and done the worst.

This year he didn't appear to really want those late round picks so maybe he is finally learning.

This year he had a pick to move up. If your sitting at 20 something forget it. At our pick we could have moved up for Surtain. That's a great cover guy. That's what is needed. He picks CBs put he doesn't get in the spot for the studs. Dantzler did well. Do I see him as a shut down guy eventually? No. That's why these picks are made and then told to hit the road. We need to defend against that guy in Green Bay. That's not easy. Of course it all starts with pass rush. This year I liked the QB that fell to us. You pick him and these teams later in the draft who have zero chance of getting a QB would be begging you for that player. That's how you make a killing. You call the shot at that point because there will be multiple teams involved. He didn't even consider that. And it pisses me off because we will never be in that spot again. That was a once in a career shot and he ignored it. Instead of having a couple 3rds your walking away with multiple 1st and that's just getting the ball rolling. Then it's 2nd ect.... The Lions got the farm for there guy. Doesn't Rick see that? He's in a habit. That will never change. If he's still around next year it will be the same old. We don't have the talent for the big prize but we won't be picking as low.

He had Bill B by the balls. I would have said you open the vault or that guy is in our pocket. Next thing Indy is begging, next its the Steelers and it goes on from there. The biding becomes out of control. If Jax put that 1 pick up for grabs they would have walked away with a haul that would make the Walker deal look like nothing. But that player was to important and I understanding that.

[VikingsVictorious]

Of those listed I would say Kendricks and Cook are out of the park picks, with O'Neil being a stand up do double. The rest are solid singles which is still pretty good.

Going back to 2011, he has done a good job in the 3rd too though. Hunter is the best draft pick of Rick's career and Dantzler looks like a solid CB if he can bulk up a little. Mattison and Mckinnon were both good backup RBs for us as well.

He has had 7 picks in each of those rounds since 2011 which is probably the lowest number of picks in round 2 and 3 of any team, but he has also picked better in those rounds than most teams during that time period. Ironically the rounds he covets picks in, 4,5,6 and 7 he has had the most picks and done the worst.

This year he didn't appear to really want those late round picks so maybe he is finally learning.

This year he had a pick to move up. If your sitting at 20 something forget it. At our pick we could have moved up for Surtain. That's a great cover guy. That's what is needed. He picks CBs put he doesn't get in the spot for the studs. Dantzler did well. Do I see him as a shut down guy eventually? No. That's why these picks are made and then told to hit the road. We need to defend against that guy in Green Bay. That's not easy. Of course it all starts with pass rush. This year I liked the QB that fell to us. You pick him and these teams later in the draft who have zero chance of getting a QB would be begging you for that player. That's how you make a killing. You call the shot at that point because there will be multiple teams involved. He didn't even consider that. And it pisses me off because we will never be in that spot again. That was a once in a career shot and he ignored it. Instead of having a couple 3rds your walking away with multiple 1st and that's just getting the ball rolling. Then it's 2nd ect.... The Lions got the farm for there guy. Doesn't Rick see that? He's in a habit. That will never change. If he's still around next year it will be the same old. We don't have the talent for the big prize but we won't be picking as low.

The QB that "Fell" to us was Mac Jones. If there were multiple first round pick offers for him we would have accepted them rather than the one we got. I call BS on your whole line of reasoning here. Also a very highly regarded QB evaluator Chris Simms considers the guy we got in the 3rd as superior to Lance and Fields. I see your reasoning as actually lack of reasoning.

[StumpHunter]

Of those listed I would say Kendricks and Cook are out of the park picks, with O'Neil being a stand up do double. The rest are solid singles which is still pretty good.

Going back to 2011, he has done a good job in the 3rd too though. Hunter is the best draft pick of Rick's career and Dantzler looks like a solid CB if he can bulk up a little. Mattison and Mckinnon were both good backup RBs for us as well.

He has had 7 picks in each of those rounds since 2011 which is probably the lowest number of picks in round 2 and 3 of any team, but he has also picked better in those rounds than most teams during that time period. Ironically the rounds he covets picks in, 4,5,6 and 7 he has had the most picks and done the worst.

This year he didn't appear to really want those late round picks so maybe he is finally learning.

This year he had a pick to move up. If your sitting at 20 something forget it. At our pick we could have moved up for Surtain. That's a great cover guy. That's what is needed. He picks CBs put he doesn't get in the spot for the studs. Dantzler did well. Do I see him as a shut down guy eventually? No. That's why these picks are made and then told to hit the road. We need to defend against that guy in Green Bay. That's not easy. Of course it all starts with pass rush. This year I liked the QB that fell to us. You pick him and these teams later in the draft who have zero chance of getting a QB would be begging you for that player. That's how you make a killing. You call the shot at that point because there will be multiple teams involved. He didn't even consider that. And it pisses me off because we will never be in that spot again. That was a once in a career shot and he ignored it. Instead of having a couple 3rds your walking away with multiple 1st and that's just getting the ball rolling. Then it's 2nd ect.... The Lions got the farm for there guy. Doesn't Rick see that? He's in a habit. That will never change. If he's still around next year it will be the same old. We don't have the talent for the big prize but we won't be picking as low.

Of the teams that hadn't already passed on Jones, NE, TB, Pitt and NO were looking to get a QB when we picked at 14, so there were teams who could have traded up if they really liked Jones. None did. NE in particular was perfectly content to stand pat at 15 and let whatever happened happen. They liked him enough to give up the 15th overall pick, but nothing more apparently.

I think you are inflating Jones' value a bit.

[VikingsVictorious]

This year he had a pick to move up. If your sitting at 20 something forget it. At our pick we could have moved up for Surtain. That's a great cover guy. That's what is needed. He picks CBs put he doesn't get in the spot for the studs. Dantzler did well. Do I see him as a shut down guy eventually? No. That's why these picks are made and then told to hit the road. We need to defend against that guy in Green Bay. That's not easy. Of course it all starts with pass rush. This year I liked the QB that fell to us. You pick him and these teams later in the draft who have zero chance of getting a QB would be begging you for that player. That's how you make a killing. You call the shot at that point because there will be multiple teams involved. He didn't even consider that. And it pisses me off because we will never be in that spot again. That was a once in a career shot and he ignored it. Instead of having a couple 3rds your walking away with multiple 1st and that's just getting the ball rolling. Then it's 2nd ect.... The Lions got the farm for there guy. Doesn't Rick see that? He's in a habit. That will never change. If he's still around next year it will be the same old. We don't have the talent for the big prize but we won't be picking as low.

He had Bill B by the balls. I would have said you open the vault or that guy is in our pocket. Next thing Indy is begging, next its the Steelers and it goes on from there. The biding becomes out of control. If Jax put that 1 pick up for grabs they would have walked away with a haul that would make the Walker deal look like nothing. But that player was to important and I understanding that.

Bill B was apparently the only guy interested in Jones or Indy or Pittsburgh would have been offering us. Once again wild speculation with no reason backing it up.

[VikingsVictorious]

This year he had a pick to move up. If your sitting at 20 something forget it. At our pick we could have moved up for Surtain. That's a great cover guy. That's what is needed. He picks CBs put he doesn't get in the spot for the studs. Dantzler did well. Do I see him as a shut down guy eventually? No. That's why these picks are made and then told to hit the road. We need to defend against that guy in Green Bay. That's not easy. Of course it all starts with pass rush. This year I liked the QB that fell to us. You pick him and these teams later in the draft who have zero chance of getting a QB would be begging you for that player. That's how you make a killing. You call the shot at that point because there will be multiple teams involved. He didn't even consider that. And it pisses me off because we will never be in that spot again. That was a once in a career shot and he ignored it. Instead of having a couple 3rds your walking away with multiple 1st and that's just getting the ball rolling. Then it's 2nd ect.... The Lions got the farm for there guy. Doesn't Rick see that? He's in a habit. That will never change. If he's still around next year it will be the same old. We don't have the talent for the big prize but we won't be picking as low.

Of the teams that hadn't already passed on Jones, NE, TB, Pitt and NO were looking to get a QB when we picked at 14, so there were teams who could have traded up if they really liked Jones. None did. NE in particular was perfectly content to stand pat at 15 and let whatever happened happen. They liked him enough to give up the 15th overall pick, but nothing more apparently.

I think you are inflating Jones' value a bit.

Jones could end up a Hall of Famer, but during this draft he had very little value to just about anybody.