The Zimmer Principle

[CharVike]

This thread is absolutely spot on and what makes me most apathetic about being a Vikings fan for the rest of the Zimmer era. While he shows flashes of flexibility and adjustment in his defensive philosophies at times, the last few years have been glaringly clear on what Zimmer's philosophy is, to the detriment of the strengths of the roster. Two great receivers as mentioned with Thielen and either Diggs or Jefferson. The focus still? Run the ball....with seeing the biggest free agent signing, again, a run stuffing defensive tackle who seems to be extremely good at stopping the run, yet has not graded so well on the pass rush. Who is he going to be teamed with? Another huge defensive tackle who is a run stopper.

What is the biggest problem here? Not only not taking advantage of your most talented guys on offense (not trying to slight Dalvin at all because he is fantastic) but it's completely ignoring where this league has trended for years....towards a passing offensive oriented league. It just seems to be a complete throwback philosophy which is nostalgic to think about in a fun way but in a winning championships way? I feel like they are going the opposite overall direction for success in the current structure of the league.

The biggest glaring holes or underperformers on this team (which so many have been talking about for years) have been the O line. And the effect it has on a quarterback with limited mobility and ability to feel pressure in the pocket. To not address that at all in free agency and sign some really questionable players from a fit standpoint really has me scratching my head over the direction of this team and where they are allocating their resources.

Part of me wonders how much of an overreaction this is to the Saints game where they completely ran all over the Vikes......

We have dam good balance on offense. Our QB threw 35 TD passes and our back had a monster year. I don't see that as a major problem. Do we have some OL issues. Sure. Every team does. You can't afford an all pro at every position unless you have no skill players. Our defense is so bad they don't even have the right to take the field. That's a problem big time. At least get to playing average. They are trying to fix it. FA is a tough way because the best aren't available. The top defensive guys are signed by there teams. We do that also. Barr, Kendricks, Smith and Hunter are signed. We let some guys walk but that happens in the CAP world. But I wouldn't call any of those guys world beaters. We signed this Peterson guy. When he could play he was always under contract. He was told to get out. Maybe Zimmer can get him to play at a decent level. He has proven he can do that. Indy got Rhodes to play decent. The 49ers just won a champ game attempting 8 passes with a high priced FA QB. That's not the norm by any stretch. I never thought I would see that. You can win in many different ways. But you need the pieces in place to make it happen.

[fiestavike]

This thread is absolutely spot on and what makes me most apathetic about being a Vikings fan for the rest of the Zimmer era. While he shows flashes of flexibility and adjustment in his defensive philosophies at times, the last few years have been glaringly clear on what Zimmer's philosophy is, to the detriment of the strengths of the roster. Two great receivers as mentioned with Thielen and either Diggs or Jefferson. The focus still? Run the ball....with seeing the biggest free agent signing, again, a run stuffing defensive tackle who seems to be extremely good at stopping the run, yet has not graded so well on the pass rush. Who is he going to be teamed with? Another huge defensive tackle who is a run stopper.

What is the biggest problem here? Not only not taking advantage of your most talented guys on offense (not trying to slight Dalvin at all because he is fantastic) but it's completely ignoring where this league has trended for years....towards a passing offensive oriented league. It just seems to be a complete throwback philosophy which is nostalgic to think about in a fun way but in a winning championships way? I feel like they are going the opposite overall direction for success in the current structure of the league.

The biggest glaring holes or underperformers on this team (which so many have been talking about for years) have been the O line. And the effect it has on a quarterback with limited mobility and ability to feel pressure in the pocket. To not address that at all in free agency and sign some really questionable players from a fit standpoint really has me scratching my head over the direction of this team and where they are allocating their resources.

Part of me wonders how much of an overreaction this is to the Saints game where they completely ran all over the Vikes......

A case could be made that actually, Kirk Cousins is not suited to an offense that is not a run first offense. He does his best passing work in complimenting a run first offense. This may be part of the Cousins conundrum, why he can put up good numbers and yet not carry a team to a lot of wins...why he plays well enough to get big money, but not well enough to find a team willing to clearly commit to him as the clear franchise QB...why fans love him and yet find him hopelessly insufficient depending on the day. He is a good QB for a run first team, but puts up numbers that demand he be paid like the top tier QB of a pass first team which he could never be in a million years.

[S197]

This thread is absolutely spot on and what makes me most apathetic about being a Vikings fan for the rest of the Zimmer era. While he shows flashes of flexibility and adjustment in his defensive philosophies at times, the last few years have been glaringly clear on what Zimmer's philosophy is, to the detriment of the strengths of the roster. Two great receivers as mentioned with Thielen and either Diggs or Jefferson. The focus still? Run the ball....with seeing the biggest free agent signing, again, a run stuffing defensive tackle who seems to be extremely good at stopping the run, yet has not graded so well on the pass rush. Who is he going to be teamed with? Another huge defensive tackle who is a run stopper.

What is the biggest problem here? Not only not taking advantage of your most talented guys on offense (not trying to slight Dalvin at all because he is fantastic) but it's completely ignoring where this league has trended for years....towards a passing offensive oriented league. It just seems to be a complete throwback philosophy which is nostalgic to think about in a fun way but in a winning championships way? I feel like they are going the opposite overall direction for success in the current structure of the league.

The biggest glaring holes or underperformers on this team (which so many have been talking about for years) have been the O line. And the effect it has on a quarterback with limited mobility and ability to feel pressure in the pocket. To not address that at all in free agency and sign some really questionable players from a fit standpoint really has me scratching my head over the direction of this team and where they are allocating their resources.

Part of me wonders how much of an overreaction this is to the Saints game where they completely ran all over the Vikes......

A case could be made that actually, Kirk Cousins is not suited to an offense that is not a run first offense. He does his best passing work in complimenting a run first offense. This may be part of the Cousins conundrum, why he can put up good numbers and yet not carry a team to a lot of wins...why he plays well enough to get big money, but not well enough to find a team willing to clearly commit to him as the clear franchise QB...why fans love him and yet find him hopelessly insufficient depending on the day. He is a good QB for a run first team, but puts up numbers that demand he be paid like the top tier QB of a pass first team which he could never be in a million years.

Exactly. We tried pass first when JDF was here and it did not end well. This offense needs Cook to function. This is why the Bears consistently beat us year after year despite being a below average team. They have monster DTs that take away the run and all of a sudden the offense sputters.

[MikethePurple]

This thread is absolutely spot on and what makes me most apathetic about being a Vikings fan for the rest of the Zimmer era. While he shows flashes of flexibility and adjustment in his defensive philosophies at times, the last few years have been glaringly clear on what Zimmer's philosophy is, to the detriment of the strengths of the roster. Two great receivers as mentioned with Thielen and either Diggs or Jefferson. The focus still? Run the ball....with seeing the biggest free agent signing, again, a run stuffing defensive tackle who seems to be extremely good at stopping the run, yet has not graded so well on the pass rush. Who is he going to be teamed with? Another huge defensive tackle who is a run stopper.

What is the biggest problem here? Not only not taking advantage of your most talented guys on offense (not trying to slight Dalvin at all because he is fantastic) but it's completely ignoring where this league has trended for years....towards a passing offensive oriented league. It just seems to be a complete throwback philosophy which is nostalgic to think about in a fun way but in a winning championships way? I feel like they are going the opposite overall direction for success in the current structure of the league.

The biggest glaring holes or underperformers on this team (which so many have been talking about for years) have been the O line. And the effect it has on a quarterback with limited mobility and ability to feel pressure in the pocket. To not address that at all in free agency and sign some really questionable players from a fit standpoint really has me scratching my head over the direction of this team and where they are allocating their resources.

Part of me wonders how much of an overreaction this is to the Saints game where they completely ran all over the Vikes......

We have dam good balance on offense. Our QB threw 35 TD passes and our back had a monster year. I don't see that as a major problem. Do we have some OL issues. Sure. Every team does. You can't afford an all pro at every position unless you have no skill players. Our defense is so bad they don't even have the right to take the field. That's a problem big time. At least get to playing average. They are trying to fix it. FA is a tough way because the best aren't available. The top defensive guys are signed by there teams. We do that also. Barr, Kendricks, Smith and Hunter are signed. We let some guys walk but that happens in the CAP world. But I wouldn't call any of those guys world beaters. We signed this Peterson guy. When he could play he was always under contract. He was told to get out. Maybe Zimmer can get him to play at a decent level. He has proven he can do that. Indy got Rhodes to play decent. The 49ers just won a champ game attempting 8 passes with a high priced FA QB. That's not the norm by any stretch. I never thought I would see that. You can win in many different ways. But you need the pieces in place to make it happen.

I'd agree but part of the reason the defense was so bad was having key pieces of the defense missing last year that are theoretically coming back this year. Pierce, Hunter, Barr all missed all of (or most of the year in Barr's case) the year. Not to mention Kendricks missed significant time. They were going to be key contributors and the big reason the Vikes signed Pierce was for the rush defense. The young corners also would have another year under their belt and hopefully will have progressed. I'm absolutely not against signing a veteran corner but I just wish they would have gone a little cheaper route and used some of the other funds towards an O line that has been bad and even now has two holes in the left side. We can talk about the options they have for potentially moving guys around but none of it's proven and given the track record of this team, I don't think they deserve to get the benefit of the doubt when the best case scenario we have seen for a while was an average O-line.

I get there are limited resources but to not prioritize the O-line again just seems to be a huge mistake. This is not even mentioning what kind of problem there is going to be if the Hunter issue becomes worse.

[MikethePurple]

This thread is absolutely spot on and what makes me most apathetic about being a Vikings fan for the rest of the Zimmer era. While he shows flashes of flexibility and adjustment in his defensive philosophies at times, the last few years have been glaringly clear on what Zimmer's philosophy is, to the detriment of the strengths of the roster. Two great receivers as mentioned with Thielen and either Diggs or Jefferson. The focus still? Run the ball....with seeing the biggest free agent signing, again, a run stuffing defensive tackle who seems to be extremely good at stopping the run, yet has not graded so well on the pass rush. Who is he going to be teamed with? Another huge defensive tackle who is a run stopper.

What is the biggest problem here? Not only not taking advantage of your most talented guys on offense (not trying to slight Dalvin at all because he is fantastic) but it's completely ignoring where this league has trended for years....towards a passing offensive oriented league. It just seems to be a complete throwback philosophy which is nostalgic to think about in a fun way but in a winning championships way? I feel like they are going the opposite overall direction for success in the current structure of the league.

The biggest glaring holes or underperformers on this team (which so many have been talking about for years) have been the O line. And the effect it has on a quarterback with limited mobility and ability to feel pressure in the pocket. To not address that at all in free agency and sign some really questionable players from a fit standpoint really has me scratching my head over the direction of this team and where they are allocating their resources.

Part of me wonders how much of an overreaction this is to the Saints game where they completely ran all over the Vikes......

A case could be made that actually, Kirk Cousins is not suited to an offense that is not a run first offense. He does his best passing work in complimenting a run first offense. This may be part of the Cousins conundrum, why he can put up good numbers and yet not carry a team to a lot of wins...why he plays well enough to get big money, but not well enough to find a team willing to clearly commit to him as the clear franchise QB...why fans love him and yet find him hopelessly insufficient depending on the day. He is a good QB for a run first team, but puts up numbers that demand he be paid like the top tier QB of a pass first team which he could never be in a million years.

Definitely agree on the part for Cousins. I don't disagree with you necessarily Cousins being a complement to a good run game but part of that also can be that we have had such a poor pass blocking O-line for some time now overall, that has not been addressed again, and in fact has two holes on the left side that we do not know what the plan is. The question is, if Cousins had a more competent O-line, could he be more successful at a more passing first offense? I think we all see that scrambling, extending plays, or playing off script is not Cousins's strong suit, but if he had a more competent O-line that wasn't letting up immediate pressure in his face, would he be able to perform better in a more passing first structure offense? Especially with the talent the Vikes have at wide receiver, tight end, and Dalvin's ability to catch passes and make good gains.

Because all of these factors influence the outcome its hard to give a definite answer but looking at the strengths of the personnel on the team it just is frustrating to think what could be. I feel like we've seen this philosophy for quite some time and it's only gotten the Vikes so far. I'm just skeptical that this year will be any different with running (no pun intended) the same philosophy back and expecting different results.

[fiestavike]

A case could be made that actually, Kirk Cousins is not suited to an offense that is not a run first offense. He does his best passing work in complimenting a run first offense. This may be part of the Cousins conundrum, why he can put up good numbers and yet not carry a team to a lot of wins...why he plays well enough to get big money, but not well enough to find a team willing to clearly commit to him as the clear franchise QB...why fans love him and yet find him hopelessly insufficient depending on the day. He is a good QB for a run first team, but puts up numbers that demand he be paid like the top tier QB of a pass first team which he could never be in a million years.

Definitely agree on the part for Cousins. I don't disagree with you necessarily Cousins being a complement to a good run game but part of that also can be that we have had such a poor pass blocking O-line for some time now overall, that has not been addressed again, and in fact has two holes on the left side that we do not know what the plan is. The question is, if Cousins had a more competent O-line, could he be more successful at a more passing first offense? I think we all see that scrambling, extending plays, or playing off script is not Cousins's strong suit, but if he had a more competent O-line that wasn't letting up immediate pressure in his face, would he be able to perform better in a more passing first structure offense? Especially with the talent the Vikes have at wide receiver, tight end, and Dalvin's ability to catch passes and make good gains.

Because all of these factors influence the outcome its hard to give a definite answer but looking at the strengths of the personnel on the team it just is frustrating to think what could be. I feel like we've seen this philosophy for quite some time and it's only gotten the Vikes so far. I'm just skeptical that this year will be any different with running (no pun intended) the same philosophy back and expecting different results.

This is where the point about Cousins salary comes into play. The Vikings might win just as many games with a cheaper option at QB given the way the team is built, and have more money to improve other areas of the team.

Cousins is a conundrum. His best qualities are maximized in a run first O, but his inability to handle the nuance of the position to extend drives and maximize the benefits of a run first offense is also highlighted. Kirk should probably be a 20mil/yr QB.

[J. Kapp 11]

This thread is absolutely spot on and what makes me most apathetic about being a Vikings fan for the rest of the Zimmer era. While he shows flashes of flexibility and adjustment in his defensive philosophies at times, the last few years have been glaringly clear on what Zimmer's philosophy is, to the detriment of the strengths of the roster. Two great receivers as mentioned with Thielen and either Diggs or Jefferson. The focus still? Run the ball....with seeing the biggest free agent signing, again, a run stuffing defensive tackle who seems to be extremely good at stopping the run, yet has not graded so well on the pass rush. Who is he going to be teamed with? Another huge defensive tackle who is a run stopper.

What is the biggest problem here? Not only not taking advantage of your most talented guys on offense (not trying to slight Dalvin at all because he is fantastic) but it's completely ignoring where this league has trended for years....towards a passing offensive oriented league. It just seems to be a complete throwback philosophy which is nostalgic to think about in a fun way but in a winning championships way? I feel like they are going the opposite overall direction for success in the current structure of the league.

The biggest glaring holes or underperformers on this team (which so many have been talking about for years) have been the O line. And the effect it has on a quarterback with limited mobility and ability to feel pressure in the pocket. To not address that at all in free agency and sign some really questionable players from a fit standpoint really has me scratching my head over the direction of this team and where they are allocating their resources.

Part of me wonders how much of an overreaction this is to the Saints game where they completely ran all over the Vikes......

Man, you are my new best friend.

Last year, when I was saying I wouldn't sign a running back for more than $4 million a season, I got crucified for it. But you have hit the nail on the head. It's not about Cook. We all love Dalvin Cook. He's the best. But if you're going to compete in today's NFL, you have to allocate your resources in areas that allow you to compete. Waiting for Dalvin to break an 80-yard run is not the way to win in the NFL. And heck, if the Vikings used him in the way Carolina uses Christian McCaffrey and threw him 90 passes a year, it might be different. But they don't. They run him into the line 30 times, the way the Cowboys used to run Emmitt Smith in the '90s.

It's a bad investment to pay $12 million a year to a running back, then do everything in your power to get him hurt.

But take that $8 million extra you're paying Cook (his $12 million minus the $4 million max I'd pay a RB). What could you do with that toward building your offensive line? Could you have been in play for Joe Thuney? Kevin Zeitler? Trent Williams? Brandon Scherff?

Now let's add a $30 million quarterback with no ability to escape, which further exacerbates the issues on the O-line, both physically and financially, and what do you have? The Minnesota Vikings.

Now listen you guys ... DO NOT take this to mean I don't like Dalvin Cook, or that I don't root for him. As I said, when they signed him to the big new deal, he remained part of the purple. And I root for every Viking. When the game starts, he's among my favorite players.

But until the league starts moving back toward the running game — which is unlikely given the HUGE MONEY that is to be made in TV deals, sports betting, fantasy, etc. that is ALL based on passing and high-scoring offenses — then all I have to say is this.

Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be running backs.

[CharVike]

This thread is absolutely spot on and what makes me most apathetic about being a Vikings fan for the rest of the Zimmer era. While he shows flashes of flexibility and adjustment in his defensive philosophies at times, the last few years have been glaringly clear on what Zimmer's philosophy is, to the detriment of the strengths of the roster. Two great receivers as mentioned with Thielen and either Diggs or Jefferson. The focus still? Run the ball....with seeing the biggest free agent signing, again, a run stuffing defensive tackle who seems to be extremely good at stopping the run, yet has not graded so well on the pass rush. Who is he going to be teamed with? Another huge defensive tackle who is a run stopper.

What is the biggest problem here? Not only not taking advantage of your most talented guys on offense (not trying to slight Dalvin at all because he is fantastic) but it's completely ignoring where this league has trended for years....towards a passing offensive oriented league. It just seems to be a complete throwback philosophy which is nostalgic to think about in a fun way but in a winning championships way? I feel like they are going the opposite overall direction for success in the current structure of the league.

The biggest glaring holes or underperformers on this team (which so many have been talking about for years) have been the O line. And the effect it has on a quarterback with limited mobility and ability to feel pressure in the pocket. To not address that at all in free agency and sign some really questionable players from a fit standpoint really has me scratching my head over the direction of this team and where they are allocating their resources.

Part of me wonders how much of an overreaction this is to the Saints game where they completely ran all over the Vikes......

Man, you are my new best friend.

Last year, when I was saying I wouldn't sign a running back for more than $4 million a season, I got crucified for it. But you have hit the nail on the head. It's not about Cook. We all love Dalvin Cook. He's the best. But if you're going to compete in today's NFL, you have to allocate your resources in areas that allow you to compete. Waiting for Dalvin to break an 80-yard run is not the way to win in the NFL. And heck, if the Vikings used him in the way Carolina uses Christian McCaffrey and threw him 90 passes a year, it might be different. But they don't. They run him into the line 30 times, the way the Cowboys used to run Emmitt Smith in the '90s.

It's a bad investment to pay $12 million a year to a running back, then do everything in your power to get him hurt.

But take that $8 million extra you're paying Cook (his $12 million minus the $4 million max I'd pay a RB). What could you do with that toward building your offensive line? Could you have been in play for Joe Thuney? Kevin Zeitler? Trent Williams? Brandon Scherff?

Now let's add a $30 million quarterback with no ability to escape, which further exacerbates the issues on the O-line, both physically and financially, and what do you have? The Minnesota Vikings.

Now listen you guys ... DO NOT take this to mean I don't like Dalvin Cook, or that I don't root for him. As I said, when they signed him to the big new deal, he remained part of the purple. And I root for every Viking. When the game starts, he's among my favorite players.

But until the league starts moving back toward the running game — which is unlikely given the HUGE MONEY that is to be made in TV deals, sports betting, fantasy, etc. that is ALL based on passing and high-scoring offenses — then all I have to say is this.

Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be running backs.

The NFL is wide open with this run first pass first stuff what ever that means. The Titans guy ran for 2000 yards and they won the division. I'd call that ground first and it worked for them. They also have a high CAP QB. I call them balanced with a heavy towards the ground game. They should have been garbage passed on a passing league. Our guy had 1500 yards and a high CAP QB and we didn't win the division. Didn't challenge. Ground first worked for one team it didn't for another. I like being balanced. Even the Packers had a guy rush for over a 1000 yards. They have a high cap QB. Balanced. They won the division easily. I'll call them pass first I guess with an expensive RB. So it works the other way also. The Bucs guy had 978 yards 5.1 per carry. Their QB threw 43 TD. Balanced pass first and they won it all. A team needs to do what they think is a best fit. I like watching Cook get the ball. I think Zim likes to pound the ball to keep it out of the Rodger's type of QBs hands. I totally agree with that. You keep giving the top dogs chance after chance and they will get you. It's not when but will eventually and he likes to limit that with the ground attack. It hasn't worked so far.

[J. Kapp 11]

Man, you are my new best friend.

Last year, when I was saying I wouldn't sign a running back for more than $4 million a season, I got crucified for it. But you have hit the nail on the head. It's not about Cook. We all love Dalvin Cook. He's the best. But if you're going to compete in today's NFL, you have to allocate your resources in areas that allow you to compete. Waiting for Dalvin to break an 80-yard run is not the way to win in the NFL. And heck, if the Vikings used him in the way Carolina uses Christian McCaffrey and threw him 90 passes a year, it might be different. But they don't. They run him into the line 30 times, the way the Cowboys used to run Emmitt Smith in the '90s.

It's a bad investment to pay $12 million a year to a running back, then do everything in your power to get him hurt.

But take that $8 million extra you're paying Cook (his $12 million minus the $4 million max I'd pay a RB). What could you do with that toward building your offensive line? Could you have been in play for Joe Thuney? Kevin Zeitler? Trent Williams? Brandon Scherff?

Now let's add a $30 million quarterback with no ability to escape, which further exacerbates the issues on the O-line, both physically and financially, and what do you have? The Minnesota Vikings.

Now listen you guys ... DO NOT take this to mean I don't like Dalvin Cook, or that I don't root for him. As I said, when they signed him to the big new deal, he remained part of the purple. And I root for every Viking. When the game starts, he's among my favorite players.

But until the league starts moving back toward the running game — which is unlikely given the HUGE MONEY that is to be made in TV deals, sports betting, fantasy, etc. that is ALL based on passing and high-scoring offenses — then all I have to say is this.

Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be running backs.

The NFL is wide open with this run first pass first stuff what ever that means. The Titans guy ran for 2000 yards and they won the division. I'd call that ground first and it worked for them. They also have a high CAP QB. I call them balanced with a heavy towards the ground game. They should have been garbage passed on a passing league. Our guy had 1500 yards and a high CAP QB and we didn't win the division. Didn't challenge. Ground first worked for one team it didn't for another. I like being balanced. Even the Packers had a guy rush for over a 1000 yards. They have a high cap QB. Balanced. They won the division easily. I'll call them pass first I guess with an expensive RB. So it works the other way also. The Bucs guy had 978 yards 5.1 per carry. Their QB threw 43 TD. Balanced pass first and they won it all. A team needs to do what they think is a best fit. I like watching Cook get the ball. I think Zim likes to pound the ball to keep it out of the Rodger's type of QBs hands. I totally agree with that. You keep giving the top dogs chance after chance and they will get you. It's not when but will eventually and he likes to limit that with the ground attack. It hasn't worked so far.

That's fine. I'm not talking about offensive balance. Yes, balance is great. Wonderful. Yes, the better teams do both well. Yes, it's fun to watch Cook run. But that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about how much you combine to PAY your QB1 and your RB1.

In the original post of this thread, my comment was that it's wise to choose: Pay your QB or the RB big money, but not both. It's when you start to pay them both that you get into trouble. The magic number is 17%. When teams pay their QB1 and RB1 a combined 17% or more of their total cap, they are losing teams 70% of the time.

You mention Green Bay. Yes, Aaron Jones rushed for 1K in 2020, but he also made just $2.3 million. Rodgers was $21.6 million against the cap. A total of $23.9 million, or 12% of the salary cap. Reasonable, and well under the 17%.

In 2020, Derrick Henry rushed for 2K but only counted $6 million against the cap, with Ryan Tannehill at $22.5 million. A total of $28.5 million, or 14% of the cap. Again, reasonable and under 17%.

In 2022, Cousins and Cook will combine for $57 million. That's about 30% of the projected cap. It's nearly a guaranteed recipe for disaster.

Do you see the disparity?

[MikethePurple]

This thread is absolutely spot on and what makes me most apathetic about being a Vikings fan for the rest of the Zimmer era. While he shows flashes of flexibility and adjustment in his defensive philosophies at times, the last few years have been glaringly clear on what Zimmer's philosophy is, to the detriment of the strengths of the roster. Two great receivers as mentioned with Thielen and either Diggs or Jefferson. The focus still? Run the ball....with seeing the biggest free agent signing, again, a run stuffing defensive tackle who seems to be extremely good at stopping the run, yet has not graded so well on the pass rush. Who is he going to be teamed with? Another huge defensive tackle who is a run stopper.

What is the biggest problem here? Not only not taking advantage of your most talented guys on offense (not trying to slight Dalvin at all because he is fantastic) but it's completely ignoring where this league has trended for years....towards a passing offensive oriented league. It just seems to be a complete throwback philosophy which is nostalgic to think about in a fun way but in a winning championships way? I feel like they are going the opposite overall direction for success in the current structure of the league.

The biggest glaring holes or underperformers on this team (which so many have been talking about for years) have been the O line. And the effect it has on a quarterback with limited mobility and ability to feel pressure in the pocket. To not address that at all in free agency and sign some really questionable players from a fit standpoint really has me scratching my head over the direction of this team and where they are allocating their resources.

Part of me wonders how much of an overreaction this is to the Saints game where they completely ran all over the Vikes......

Man, you are my new best friend.

Last year, when I was saying I wouldn't sign a running back for more than $4 million a season, I got crucified for it. But you have hit the nail on the head. It's not about Cook. We all love Dalvin Cook. He's the best. But if you're going to compete in today's NFL, you have to allocate your resources in areas that allow you to compete. Waiting for Dalvin to break an 80-yard run is not the way to win in the NFL. And heck, if the Vikings used him in the way Carolina uses Christian McCaffrey and threw him 90 passes a year, it might be different. But they don't. They run him into the line 30 times, the way the Cowboys used to run Emmitt Smith in the '90s.

It's a bad investment to pay $12 million a year to a running back, then do everything in your power to get him hurt.

But take that $8 million extra you're paying Cook (his $12 million minus the $4 million max I'd pay a RB). What could you do with that toward building your offensive line? Could you have been in play for Joe Thuney? Kevin Zeitler? Trent Williams? Brandon Scherff?

Now let's add a $30 million quarterback with no ability to escape, which further exacerbates the issues on the O-line, both physically and financially, and what do you have? The Minnesota Vikings.

Now listen you guys ... DO NOT take this to mean I don't like Dalvin Cook, or that I don't root for him. As I said, when they signed him to the big new deal, he remained part of the purple. And I root for every Viking. When the game starts, he's among my favorite players.

But until the league starts moving back toward the running game — which is unlikely given the HUGE MONEY that is to be made in TV deals, sports betting, fantasy, etc. that is ALL based on passing and high-scoring offenses — then all I have to say is this.

Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be running backs.

Ha, exactly. I wish we could be bonding on a more positive topic but this is the Vikings we're talking about I really do think the team has a good amount of talent and could move forward positively, but where the money is allocated (like Fiesta Vike mentioned) and where the philosophy is taking them is just not a championship recipe. I think it gets the Vikes to the playoffs but I don't think it gets them all the way.

Their current philosophy is based on a recipe for slim margin success and little room for errors. Whenever they run into a good team that can stop what they do, they just don't have an answer. Look at the 49ers game in the playoffs a couple of years ago. No answer and a steamroll. In kind of a strange way, they had a similar philosophy at the time that is close to Zimmer's idea of success. An amazingly stout defense ( their defense was incredible that year) and a complementary offense that minimizes quarterback mistakes with a dominant run game. They even got close to a championship with it, but once the offense of the Chiefs ramped up, they couldn't keep up either.

[Maelstrom88]

I think a big reason why we have run into a team that has dominated us in the playoffs is Keenum wasn't very good but more so than that the offensive line has not been very good either and eventually you are going to run into a team like the 49ers or the Bucs and that line will lose you the game.

[VikingTom]

Excellent discussion. Many points I am in agreement on. Certainly Cousins is too costly for this team at this moment. Then having a season with reduced revenue due to the pandemic exacerbates the problem. I have nothing against Cousins, he is a good, but not quite elite QB. The Vikings threw coin at him with the belief they were one good QB from the SB. Turned out not to be the case. That one big season with a journeyman QB turned out to be a mirage, which is why Cousins was not the answer. I get the rationale, just turned out to be wrong, needs went beyond QB.

Easy to pick apart past decisions, that whole 20-20 vision in hindsight thing. How does the team realistically move forward now? These can be risky things that can cost coaches and GMs their jobs. Which in turn may make them dig in even more as they stubbornly stay the course.

This is JMO, but I think there are only two choices. One is convince Cousins he has to give the Vikings some cap room. That means a contract redo that lowers the cap hit in 2022 and provides a more reasonable cap hit over x number of years. The other option is to absorb the 45 million in 22, then move on from Cousins and admit they are in rebuild mode.

This is kind of the vexing point that I see the Vikings at.

[StumpHunter]

The NFL is wide open with this run first pass first stuff what ever that means. The Titans guy ran for 2000 yards and they won the division. I'd call that ground first and it worked for them. They also have a high CAP QB. I call them balanced with a heavy towards the ground game. They should have been garbage passed on a passing league. Our guy had 1500 yards and a high CAP QB and we didn't win the division. Didn't challenge. Ground first worked for one team it didn't for another. I like being balanced. Even the Packers had a guy rush for over a 1000 yards. They have a high cap QB. Balanced. They won the division easily. I'll call them pass first I guess with an expensive RB. So it works the other way also. The Bucs guy had 978 yards 5.1 per carry. Their QB threw 43 TD. Balanced pass first and they won it all. A team needs to do what they think is a best fit. I like watching Cook get the ball. I think Zim likes to pound the ball to keep it out of the Rodger's type of QBs hands. I totally agree with that. You keep giving the top dogs chance after chance and they will get you. It's not when but will eventually and he likes to limit that with the ground attack. It hasn't worked so far.

That's fine. I'm not talking about offensive balance. Yes, balance is great. Wonderful. Yes, the better teams do both well. Yes, it's fun to watch Cook run. But that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about how much you combine to PAY your QB1 and your RB1.

In the original post of this thread, my comment was that it's wise to choose: Pay your QB or the RB big money, but not both. It's when you start to pay them both that you get into trouble. The magic number is 17%. When teams pay their QB1 and RB1 a combined 17% or more of their total cap, they are losing teams 70% of the time.

You mention Green Bay. Yes, Aaron Jones rushed for 1K in 2020, but he also made just $2.3 million. Rodgers was $21.6 million against the cap. A total of $23.9 million, or 12% of the salary cap. Reasonable, and well under the 17%.

In 2020, Derrick Henry rushed for 2K but only counted $6 million against the cap, with Ryan Tannehill at $22.5 million. A total of $28.5 million, or 14% of the cap. Again, reasonable and under 17%.

In 2022, Cousins and Cook will combine for $57 million. That's about 30% of the projected cap. It's nearly a guaranteed recipe for disaster.

Do you see the disparity?

You are kind of comparing apples to oranges here.

In 2020 the Vikings RB and QB counted as 25 million against the cap. So right in line with the Packers and TN. Cook didn't make a lot in 2020, but did provide a lot of value, similar to Jones and Henry.

In 2022 Henry and Tannehill will account for 49 million against the cap, the same with Jones and Rodgers. For both of those teams, just like the Vikings, the RB is making a fraction of what the QB is.

It is a recipe for disaster, but mostly because TN and the Vikings are overpaying average QBs and Rodgers is likely to regress due to his age. Not because the RB salaries.

I will also point out that the Vikings can cut Cook after this season and only eat 9 million in dead cap. 9 million that could be spread over 2 seasons to make that number pretty insignificant. Jones and Henry have similar outs, albeit cheaper ones. In other words those RBs are only going to get paid for as long as they produce. Nothing to be concerned about.

[StanM]

I am not going to analyze players or the cap but will only give my hunch on the wilff, Zimmer, and Speilman situation going into this season. They way they are stacking the roster suggests that this is an all in year. The Wilffs like Mike and Rick and firing coaches and GM’s while common sends out a negative message publicly.

My prognostication is that they will go all in on this 2021 season. If they fail I think Zim will be allowed to retire in a face saving move, hang around at the ranch and “unretire” and end up as a defensive coordinator on some other team. Rick will discretely be given the opportunity to seek other options and leave the Vikings without us ever getting the satisfaction of seeing the Vikings fire them publicly.

The result will be another mess that will take years to pull ourselves out of. As someone who started following the Vikings in game #1 in 1961 at 10 years old I will have to start taking more vitamins and exercising more so I can ride out another Vikings rebuild in my quest to see a Super Bowl win. My time as a Vikings fan goes back to before there was such thing as a Super Bowl so I have been waiting for a while.

[J. Kapp 11]

That's fine. I'm not talking about offensive balance. Yes, balance is great. Wonderful. Yes, the better teams do both well. Yes, it's fun to watch Cook run. But that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about how much you combine to PAY your QB1 and your RB1.

In the original post of this thread, my comment was that it's wise to choose: Pay your QB or the RB big money, but not both. It's when you start to pay them both that you get into trouble. The magic number is 17%. When teams pay their QB1 and RB1 a combined 17% or more of their total cap, they are losing teams 70% of the time.

You mention Green Bay. Yes, Aaron Jones rushed for 1K in 2020, but he also made just $2.3 million. Rodgers was $21.6 million against the cap. A total of $23.9 million, or 12% of the salary cap. Reasonable, and well under the 17%.

In 2020, Derrick Henry rushed for 2K but only counted $6 million against the cap, with Ryan Tannehill at $22.5 million. A total of $28.5 million, or 14% of the cap. Again, reasonable and under 17%.

In 2022, Cousins and Cook will combine for $57 million. That's about 30% of the projected cap. It's nearly a guaranteed recipe for disaster.

Do you see the disparity?

You are kind of comparing apples to oranges here.

In 2020 the Vikings RB and QB counted as 25 million against the cap. So right in line with the Packers and TN. Cook didn't make a lot in 2020, but did provide a lot of value, similar to Jones and Henry.

In 2022 Henry and Tannehill will account for 49 million against the cap, the same with Jones and Rodgers. For both of those teams, just like the Vikings, the RB is making a fraction of what the QB is.

It is a recipe for disaster, but mostly because TN and the Vikings are overpaying average QBs and Rodgers is likely to regress due to his age. Not because the RB salaries.

I will also point out that the Vikings can cut Cook after this season and only eat 9 million in dead cap. 9 million that could be spread over 2 seasons to make that number pretty insignificant. Jones and Henry have similar outs, albeit cheaper ones. In other words those RBs are only going to get paid for as long as they produce. Nothing to be concerned about.

I'm not comparing apples to oranges.

I've provided historical data for teams that pay more than 17.5% to their QB1 and RB1. Exactly 70% of teams who have been in that situation have ended up with losing records. Green Bay and Tennessee weren't in that situation last year, so I don't see where comparing anything to 2020 is relevant. But if you really want to go there, you actually help support my point. The issue isn't VALUE at the positions. The issue is the amount of salary allocated to the positions. Which is exactly why, if I were GM, I would spend the money on the QB (assuming he's worth the money) and replace the RB every 3-4 years. Even if that RB is named Dalvin Cook. This isn't the NBA. The team with the most superstars doesn't win. The team with the deepest roster, without glaring holes at any position, wins.

As for the Titans and Packers, time will tell. But I would say that since they'll both be paying more than 25% to their QB1 and RB1 in 2022, at least one of them will flame out. The Packers will be in the hurt locker because most of Aaron Jones' contract is already bonus. Rodgers has a lot of salary built in that could be converted to bonus, so maybe they can get by. Maybe. Meanwhile, 80% of Henry's cap hit is salary, which could be restructured. But this is a guy who will have carried the ball 1,100 times from 2019 through 2021. At what point does he slow down? Most of Tannehill's contract is salary, convertible to bonus. But his contract expires in 2023, so you'd either have to extend him or pay him $40 million to $50 million in 2023.

Neither situation is one I'd care to be in if I were GM. And both situations pale in comparison to that of the Vikings. Kirk Cousins, all by himself, will account for almost 24% of the Vikings' cap in 2022. That. Is. Ridiculous.

History says that if things stay as they are, at least two of those three teams will not make the 2022 playoffs. That makes my comparison spot-on.