Let's play "Manage the Cap — 2021"

[VikingPaul73]

I actually think they will cut all of those guys save Rudy, who will take a massive pay cut to remain on the team. As good as Reiff was this season, the Vikings were willing to cut him at the start of the season, which means either they are incompetent or have a viable option outside of him at that spot.

That leaves the Vikings with about 10 million in cap I believe, to spend on free agents.

That 10 million is probably spread out among the following:
Odenigbo
Wilson
FA guard

Super Bowl here we come.

Don't forget Dozier is a FA too (I think).....so if they do cut Reiff and the rest of what you suggest, that will leave them with:

Ezra OT
FA guard OG
Bradbury C
Samia/Rookie OG (Yikes!!!!)
O'Neill OT

If they do get rid of Reiff, they absolutely HAVE to take a OG in the 1st. I just can't imagine going into 2021 with either Samia or a Rookie 3rd or 4th starting at OG. Maybe Rick can package some of the 3rd or 4th round picks to move back into the 2nd.......

The "opportunity" side of this whole thing is.....if the Vikings want to be aggressive in releasing some of their players who aren't performing up to their contracts, there could be A LOT of relatively cheap FA on the market this offseason. We might also see players willing to restructure their deals to avoid hitting FA in this market.....have to be smart rather than emotional.

[chicagopurple]

really, the entire Ol needs to be revamped anyway. Honestly the only part of the team that would be silly to lose would be RB, receiver corps as a whole incl TEs, and the secondary which is very young but doing pretty well in their learning year esp since they are not being helped much by the pressure put on by the Defensive lineman.

[S197]

There's a fair chance they move on from Reiff, I mean they came pretty close this year. If they do it's likely O'neill at LT and Udoh at RT. Cleveland stays at guard and they either re-sign Dozier or find a similar FA.

I would think eventually they try to move Cleveland to tackle but I don't think Udoh can play guard and everyone else they have is awful.

They may draft a lineman in the 3rd or 4th but does anyone trust Rick in finding even a serviceable player? Just a reminder, this is who he has drafted in the 3rd and 4th: Elflein, Clemmings, Beavers, and Samia. Woof.

[VikingPaul73]

There's a fair chance they move on from Reiff, I mean they came pretty close this year. If they do it's likely O'neill at LT and Udoh at RT. Cleveland stays at guard and they either re-sign Dozier or find a similar FA.

I would think eventually they try to move Cleveland to tackle but I don't think Udoh can play guard and everyone else they have is awful.

They may draft a lineman in the 3rd or 4th but does anyone trust Rick in finding even a serviceable player? Just a reminder, this is who he has drafted in the 3rd and 4th: Elflein, Clemmings, Beavers, and Samia. Woof.

Good point about Udoh, I hadn't considered that.

But yeah, the idea of starting either Samia or a 3rd or 4th round pick at OG next year is pretty scary

[J. Kapp 11]

Don't forget Dozier is a FA too (I think).....so if they do cut Reiff and the rest of what you suggest, that will leave them with:

Ezra OT
FA guard OG
Bradbury C
Samia/Rookie OG (Yikes!!!!)
O'Neill OT

If they do get rid of Reiff, they absolutely HAVE to take a OG in the 1st. I just can't imagine going into 2021 with either Samia or a Rookie 3rd or 4th starting at OG. Maybe Rick can package some of the 3rd or 4th round picks to move back into the 2nd.......

The "opportunity" side of this whole thing is.....if the Vikings want to be aggressive in releasing some of their players who aren't performing up to their contracts, their could be A LOT of relatively cheap FA on the market this offseason. We might also see players willing to restructure their deals to avoid hitting FA in this market.....have to be smart rather than emotional.

Dozier is dirt-cheap, though. His cap hit is around $800k. Plus, he's been starting all year. No, as starting guards go, he's not very good. But a guy with starting experience makes a good depth piece, especially if it's at a reasonable salary.

I understand your desire to take a guard in the1st, but guards who merit a first-round grade are incredibly rare. There just aren't many guys like Quenton Nelson out there. I will admit that I don't know who's out there in the college ranks at the moment.

The other thing is that we have a huge need along the D-line, especially if Hunter can't make it back. Hunter has the same basic injury as Peyton Manning had, and he plays a position that puts his head and neck at far greater risk than quarterback. To me, the D-line is a position of more critical need than the O-line, given that we're 5th in total offense and 14th in scoring with the guys we have. Meanwhile, our D-line is absolutely abysmal, perhaps worse than our O-line has been at any point in the Spielman regime.

Your comment about cheap FAs is right on the mark. If the cap drops to $175m, there are going to be a LOT of cap casualties out there. It's weird — given how little we throw the ball compared to other teams, you would think offensive linemen would line up to come to Minnesota. Every last one of them, to a man, would rather run block than pass block. But Spielman just never makes O-line a priority in free agency, unless you count guys like Josh Kline and Tom Compton. If ever there were an offseason to make an O-line splash in free agency, this would seem to be it.

[psjordan]

They may draft a lineman in the 3rd or 4th but does anyone trust Rick in finding even a serviceable player? Just a reminder, this is who he has drafted in the 3rd and 4th: Elflein, Clemmings, Beavers, and Samia. Woof.

Why do our OL coaches get a pass in all of this? I mean Dennison hasn't stuck with ANYONE other than just following Kubiak around the NFL in a game of musical chairs. Does anyone trust him to COACH any drafted player into a serviceable OL?

How about our strength and conditioning coaches/programs? We seem to be one of the few teams in the NFL that routinely has 300 pound offensive linemen tossed around like Barbie dolls. Really? EVERY SINGLE OL WE HAVE DRAFTED THE PAST 10 YEARS is a weakling with a crappy center of gravity?

And for goodness sake, does anyone even remember the Barone/Janocko "tandem co-coach" approach before Dennison?

Holy cow all of those coaches are a complete disaster. Yet no one ever seems to notice. SMH.

Sure, maybe Rick has whiffed on EVERY SINGLE lineman he has ever drafted. But somehow I doubt it.

[VikingLord]

It doesn't hurt the owners. It hurts the lower-leveled players. There are going to be a lot of guys playing in the league on a lot less money than they had hoped. Guys will guaranteed money will either get their money or restructure (see above, Cousins, Kirk). Others without guaranteed contracts will get cut before June 1 and have to renegotiate, either with their former teams or as free agents. In fact, I have a feeling there are going to be a lot of low- and mid-level free agents out there.

If this is the first time the cap has decreased under a modern CBA and there were no provisions made for that in the CBA, then this stands to be one of the more interesting offseasons in NFL history.

This could result in "The Great Reshuffling" of talent as teams have to make some hard decisions about who to keep and who to cut, and among that cut group, what they might be able to get from other teams under the lower cap. I'd say this environment favors teams that aren't heading into the offseason with a lot of guaranteed money on the books for 2021.

[J. Kapp 11]

It doesn't hurt the owners. It hurts the lower-leveled players. There are going to be a lot of guys playing in the league on a lot less money than they had hoped. Guys will guaranteed money will either get their money or restructure (see above, Cousins, Kirk). Others without guaranteed contracts will get cut before June 1 and have to renegotiate, either with their former teams or as free agents. In fact, I have a feeling there are going to be a lot of low- and mid-level free agents out there.

If this is the first time the cap has decreased under a modern CBA and there were no provisions made for that in the CBA, then this stands to be one of the more interesting offseasons in NFL history.

This could result in "The Great Reshuffling" of talent as teams have to make some hard decisions about who to keep and who to cut, and among that cut group, what they might be able to get from other teams under the lower cap. I'd say this environment favors teams that aren't heading into the offseason with a lot of guaranteed money on the books for 2021.

That's what I foresee, VL — a ton of cap casualties, which will make the market for mid-tier free agents very plentiful.

[VikingLord]

They may draft a lineman in the 3rd or 4th but does anyone trust Rick in finding even a serviceable player? Just a reminder, this is who he has drafted in the 3rd and 4th: Elflein, Clemmings, Beavers, and Samia. Woof.

He drafted O'Neill, Bradbury and Cleveland and found Reiff in FA.

Not sure if you're limiting your statement to players drafted in the 3rd round or later, but my guess is there aren't too many GMs in the NFL who have a lot to brag about under that condition either.

I'm not trying to defend Spielman per se. I just think it's unfair to paint him as totally incompetent in terms of finding OL talent. He's found some. Maybe he got a little lucky in a few instances, but he's pulled the trigger on guys who have played well.

[VikingPaul73]

I also wonder if we will see a lot of restructures before FA .... players should be nervous about hitting FA in this environment and could do better just re- negotiating with their current team rather than testing the waters..

Either way as many have said - it’s going to be a very interesting off-season!!!!

[S197]

They may draft a lineman in the 3rd or 4th but does anyone trust Rick in finding even a serviceable player? Just a reminder, this is who he has drafted in the 3rd and 4th: Elflein, Clemmings, Beavers, and Samia. Woof.

Why do our OL coaches get a pass in all of this? I mean Dennison hasn't stuck with ANYONE other than just following Kubiak around the NFL in a game of musical chairs. Does anyone trust him to COACH any drafted player into a serviceable OL?

How about our strength and conditioning coaches/programs? We seem to be one of the few teams in the NFL that routinely has 300 pound offensive linemen tossed around like Barbie dolls. Really? EVERY SINGLE OL WE HAVE DRAFTED THE PAST 10 YEARS is a weakling with a crappy center of gravity?

And for goodness sake, does anyone even remember the Barone/Janocko "tandem co-coach" approach before Dennison?

Holy cow all of those coaches are a complete disaster. Yet no one ever seems to notice. SMH.

Sure, maybe Rick has whiffed on EVERY SINGLE lineman he has ever drafted. But somehow I doubt it.

They don't get passes but all of those positions have turned over during Spielman's tenure. We've had a decade of poor OL play and there's only one common denominator. But his ability to find coaches that can, well coach, may also been an issue aside from his poor scouting but that's hardly a feather in his cap.

[chicagopurple]

spielman has had a decade to build a good OL and has done very little. He also has say so over the coaches and as someone has pointed out, the parade of OL coaches we have had have failed to develop talent from whet slick rick drafted. the Ol is the foundation of any good team and its really sad when you try to think back to the last quality Ol we had. When you get back there they are names that give you that sense of pride, guys you really respect. We havent had any in many many years.Even for much of APs career, he didnt really have a great Ol and I would imagine what insane numbers he would have racked up if Rick had built a better team around AP.

[S197]

They may draft a lineman in the 3rd or 4th but does anyone trust Rick in finding even a serviceable player? Just a reminder, this is who he has drafted in the 3rd and 4th: Elflein, Clemmings, Beavers, and Samia. Woof.

He drafted O'Neill, Bradbury and Cleveland and found Reiff in FA.

Not sure if you're limiting your statement to players drafted in the 3rd round or later, but my guess is there aren't too many GMs in the NFL who have a lot to brag about under that condition either.

I'm not trying to defend Spielman per se. I just think it's unfair to paint him as totally incompetent in terms of finding OL talent. He's found some. Maybe he got a little lucky in a few instances, but he's pulled the trigger on guys who have played well.

Well, I'm limiting it because I think it's unlikely we draft a guard in the 1st round and we threw away our 2nd round pick. The concentration of our picks are in the 3rd and 4th rounds, so it seems most logical this is where they'll target O-line and that's what he has drafted so far.

Bradbury currently sits in the bottom half of centers graded according to PFF. Part of that could be due to the guys to his left and right but I don't see him playing anywhere near a 1st round level. Same with Cleveland, the fact that he's better than Samia doesn't make him great. As I've said in the past, it's unfair to judge a guy on less than a year and he could turn out to be a great pick but as of right now he doesn't really show enough one way or the other to really make a case for Spielman. In any event, both of these guys are in the wait and see category more than evidence Rick can draft linemen.

O'Neill is probably the best example. I honestly think he's an average tackle but I know others disagree. Above average run blocker and puller, slightly below average is pass protection. He got a lot of praise for not giving up a sack his rookie year but I think that had more to do with how bad everyone else was. Notice how that stat hasn't been brought up this year? It's because he's surrendered a lot more pressures.

Reiff was probably Rick's best FA pick up. If you recall, he also made a big splash on Remmers that year who struggled greatly. But again, Reiff is the feather in Spielman's cap? Reiff ranks 29th in pass protection according to PFF.

Samia was the worst graded player in the entire NFL. Guess who ranks dead last amongst guards right now. Dakota Dozier.

https://twitter.com/samekstrom/status/1 ... 56993?s=21

I really don't see what's unfair. Can you name me a season in the last decade that we had a competent line? If a GM can't produce a competent line in 10-years, I'd say he's fairly incompetent at it.

[StumpHunter]

They may draft a lineman in the 3rd or 4th but does anyone trust Rick in finding even a serviceable player? Just a reminder, this is who he has drafted in the 3rd and 4th: Elflein, Clemmings, Beavers, and Samia. Woof.

He drafted O'Neill, Bradbury and Cleveland and found Reiff in FA.

That is 4/5ths of a below average Oline. Hardly a ringing endorsement for Rick's ability to find Oline talent.

[psjordan]

They don't get passes but all of those positions have turned over during Spielman's tenure. We've had a decade of poor OL play and there's only one common denominator. But his ability to find coaches that can, well coach, may also been an issue aside from his poor scouting but that's hardly a feather in his cap.

Huh? A HUGE common denominator - for 6 years - is Zimmer.

And where did the notion that our GM picks all of our coaches come from? I've seen it in several threads now. I don't know of a GM in the NFL (other than HC/GM combo guys) that picks assistant coaches.

When it comes to head coaches, yes Rick was involved as a peer (two years into GM role) in the process when Zim was hired, but the Wilf brothers absolutely were hip-deep in the process, the candidates, the interviews and the final decision. Anyone who states/implies that Rick, with two GM years under his belt, "hired Zimmer" and then "notified the Wilfs" is misremembering at best.

According to our org chart, both Zim and Rick are peers that report directly to Mark Wilf. All assistant coaches report to Zim. Yes, Rick and Zim seem to be tied at the hip at this point. But to even point in Rick's general direction as the source of our coaching failures the last 8 years is, well, not correct.

It's just insane to me that the mention of our GM as our "OL problem source" is 10,000 times higher on this board than mentions of our pathetic OL coaches the past 8 years. Rick needs to eat his share of the blame, sure. But jeez.