Cousins is actually better under the bright lights

[StumpHunter]

"Our analysis suggests that Kirk Cousins is a step above the average quarterback that teams tend to face on Sunday afternoon but a step below the average quarterback that teams tend to face in prime time." All I'm saying is that Cousins and the Vikings may consistently be able to beat poor and average teams but not consistently beat good and above average teams, especially in prime time. As you know the blame and credit most likely is directed at the QB. Stay safe brother.

Agree to disagree. The media, for the most part, directs the blame and credit to the QB. But anyone that knows football knows it's a team game. If Cousins' defenses are giving up 35 points in most prime time games, how can anyone realistically expect him to have a winning record in those games, or one even close to being .500?? I can 100% guarantee that if you looked up every QBs defense in primetime games throughout their careers, Cousins' has been BY FAR the worst of any QB. Literally guarantee it. It's exactly why I think that stat that the media wants to throw around about him in prime time games is a crock of crap. Especially given he's played well in prime time games for the most part

I would love to see the numbers of his defenses in prime time versus what other QBs have faced. Do you have a link?

[S197]

Article is a little dated. A week after it was written he and the team would go on to put on a pathetic attempt against the 49ers. A game where Sage, a former NFL QB, broke down something like 8 plays where Cousins missed guys that were open.

When you’re at the top of this list:

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/minnesota-vikings/

You damn well better expect to shoulder a lot.

[VikingsVictorious]

Do you think Cousins doesn't hold any responsibility for his record as a QB then?

Cousins never had a good Redskins team so how is that Cousins’ fault?

Holding a QB accountable for a team's win/loss record where he is one player out of 50 is ridiculous. Might as well hold the left guard, the free safety or the long snapper accountable for the team's record. If the defense is giving up 34 PPG what are the QBs chances of having a good win/loss record.

[VikingsVictorious]

Agree to disagree. The media, for the most part, directs the blame and credit to the QB. But anyone that knows football knows it's a team game. If Cousins' defenses are giving up 35 points in most prime time games, how can anyone realistically expect him to have a winning record in those games, or one even close to being .500?? I can 100% guarantee that if you looked up every QBs defense in primetime games throughout their careers, Cousins' has been BY FAR the worst of any QB. Literally guarantee it. It's exactly why I think that stat that the media wants to throw around about him in prime time games is a crock of crap. Especially given he's played well in prime time games for the most part

I don't think it is just the "media" that does that (maybe I'm the only person getting tired of the "media" being blamed for everything, but it is getting old for me). Lots of fans do it too.

You're right that assigning total responsibility to the outcome of those games to the QB is not fair. As you note, it is a team game first and foremost, and as you note, the outcome of any given game is a combination of how the overall offense, defense, special teams, coaching and key penalties called or not called come out at the end. An individual QB can have an outstanding game and still come up on the losing end if any or all of those other elements go against him.

I re-watched the last game between the Packers and Vikings again recently and watched Cousins in that game in particular. He didn't play great in that game, but he was under almost constant duress from 4 rushers and sometimes from 3. The offensive line offered little resistance. They also did little to make the run game effective as the Packer front 7 consistently shut down the run past the first quarter. It was really pretty pathetic in terms of blocking and scheme. The Packers looked amped up and looked like the team playing at home and playing for something meaningful rather than the Vikings.

Defensively, the Vikings looked outclassed as well. The Packers ran and passed with relative ease and Rodgers hit some big throws.

Yeah, it would have been great to see Cousins put on his Superman costume and make magic out of nothing, but that isn't his game. He's never been a Superman QB and that isn't going to change at this point in his career. Had the offensive line done a better job and kept the running game as a credible threat, Cousins would have done better throwing the ball. Had the defense done a better job, the game might have come out in the Vikings' favor.

The game that defines what Cousins is capable of doing if he's given time and credible play in front of him and the overall team does its job is the playoff win against the Saints. That OT drive was a thing of beauty and it happened because Cousins was put in a position to unleash that beauty to Thielen and then followed up with the rainbow arc to Rudolph to win the game. THAT is what Cousins can do if the rest of the offense is firing. And that is good enough to win big games.

On the TD pass to Rudy Cousins had two pass rushers in his face. I would say he was wearing the Superman cape on that one.

[StumpHunter]

Cousins never had a good Redskins team so how is that Cousins’ fault?

Holding a QB accountable for a team's win/loss record where he is one player out of 50 is ridiculous. Might as well hold the left guard, the free safety or the long snapper accountable for the team's record. If the defense is giving up 34 PPG what are the QBs chances of having a good win/loss record.

You should tell that to Cousins:

"I think the next level, really, is all about winning," Cousins said during mandatory minicamp on Wednesday. "I'm pretty much a .500 quarterback in my career so far and I don't think that's where you want to be, and that's not why you are brought in or people or excited about you.

[fiestavike]

It's a shame we have to find the flimsiest strawman arguments to knock down in an effort to 'be right' and 'win', or to 'defend our guy'. The 'bright lights' arent really the point. Silly. We all know where cousins is good and where he isnt after the last couple seasons, not to mention his Redskins days. Finding the ways to frame criticism of Cousins that are easiest to knock down, is not impressive or insighful. It's just a silly and masturbatory waste of time.

[VikingLord]

On the TD pass to Rudy Cousins had two pass rushers in his face. I would say he was wearing the Superman cape on that one.

I didn't mean to take anything away from Cousins. It was a tough throw as the Saints brought extra pressure and you're right that made the throw much tougher. I wouldn't call what Cousins did on that play a Superman throw, but it wasn't an easy play.

[VikingsVictorious]

Holding a QB accountable for a team's win/loss record where he is one player out of 50 is ridiculous. Might as well hold the left guard, the free safety or the long snapper accountable for the team's record. If the defense is giving up 34 PPG what are the QBs chances of having a good win/loss record.

You should tell that to Cousins:

"I think the next level, really, is all about winning," Cousins said during mandatory minicamp on Wednesday. "I'm pretty much a .500 quarterback in my career so far and I don't think that's where you want to be, and that's not why you are brought in or people or excited about you.

I agree with everything Cousins said in that quote and I still stand behind my statement 100%. Cousins wants to be the guy who leads our team to greatness and that's admirable, but it's 90% out of his control. The Vikings will win or lose as a team. Cousins will not win or lose at all.

[VikingsVictorious]

It's a shame we have to find the flimsiest strawman arguments to knock down in an effort to 'be right' and 'win', or to 'defend our guy'. The 'bright lights' arent really the point. Silly. We all know where cousins is good and where he isnt after the last couple seasons, not to mention his Redskins days. Finding the ways to frame criticism of Cousins that are easiest to knock down, is not impressive or insighful. It's just a silly and masturbatory waste of time.

Fiesta I respect that you aren't the one making the flimsy arguments. However, Cousins Monday night record isn't a strawman. It's probably the #1 argument that people make against him. That and his record against winning teams. The problem with those is he can't control the results of those games as one player out of 50. It's not possible. He does his best and most of the time his best is pretty darn good.

[StumpHunter]

Fiesta I respect that you aren't the one making the flimsy arguments. However, Cousins Monday night record isn't a strawman. It's probably the #1 argument that people make against him. That and his record against winning teams.

I had to go all the way back to December to find a single post of anyone knocking Cousins for his play in primetime or prime time. Plenty of posts where people are doing what you are doing, claiming that is people's main knock on him. None where anyone brought up his record in that spot as the basis for their dislike of him.

The problem with those is he can't control the results of those games as one player out of 50. It's not possible. He does his best and most of the time his best is pretty darn good.

What is this now? If he only has 1/50th of the impact on whether we win or lose a game, why the heck are we paying him 1/8th of the cap?

Let's just throw Mannion out there at a fraction of the price if that is the case.

[VikingsVictorious]

Fiesta I respect that you aren't the one making the flimsy arguments. However, Cousins Monday night record isn't a strawman. It's probably the #1 argument that people make against him. That and his record against winning teams.

I had to go all the way back to December to find a single post of anyone knocking Cousins for his play in primetime or prime time. Plenty of posts where people are doing what you are doing, claiming that is people's main knock on him. None where anyone brought up his record in that spot as the basis for their dislike of him.

The problem with those is he can't control the results of those games as one player out of 50. It's not possible. He does his best and most of the time his best is pretty darn good.

What is this now? If he only has 1/50th of the impact on whether we win or lose a game, why the heck are we paying him 1/8th of the cap?

Let's just throw Mannion out there at a fraction of the price if that is the case.

Stump I'm going to discuss Cousins with you just a little bit because I know how that can get out of hand. First why go looking throughout our board to check for incidences of whining about Cousins Prime Time record? When I go on Social Media and share all of Cousins great stats people have a high preponderence of bringing up his MNF win/loss record and record against winning teams. Those are easily the two biggest knocks against him. Where did I say that Cousins only had 1/50th impact on winning. It never happened. I said he was one player out of 50 give or take for game day actives and that is a fact. I would agree that he should be 1/8th responsible for our w/l record due to taking up 1/8th of our cap. He is more responsible for our Ws and Ls than the long snapper. Still not nearly enough to hold him accountable when the rest of the team takes up 87.5 % of our cap. Remember when I said he couldn't control 90% of whether we win or lose. If your 1/8th figure is accurate I should have said 87.5%. I would much prefer Cousins having a 12.5% impact on us winning or losing than going with Mannion having a 1% impact.

[StumpHunter]

I had to go all the way back to December to find a single post of anyone knocking Cousins for his play in primetime or prime time. Plenty of posts where people are doing what you are doing, claiming that is people's main knock on him. None where anyone brought up his record in that spot as the basis for their dislike of him.



What is this now? If he only has 1/50th of the impact on whether we win or lose a game, why the heck are we paying him 1/8th of the cap?

Let's just throw Mannion out there at a fraction of the price if that is the case.

Stump I'm going to discuss Cousins with you just a little bit because I know how that can get out of hand. First why go looking throughout our board to check for incidences of whining about Cousins Prime Time record? When I go on Social Media and share all of Cousins great stats people have a high preponderence of bringing up his MNF win/loss record and record against winning teams. Those are easily the two biggest knocks against him. Where did I say that Cousins only had 1/50th impact on winning. It never happened. I said he was one player out of 50 give or take for game day actives and that is a fact. I would agree that he should be 1/8th responsible for our w/l record due to taking up 1/8th of our cap. He is more responsible for our Ws and Ls than the long snapper. Still not nearly enough to hold him accountable when the rest of the team takes up 87.5 % of our cap. Remember when I said he couldn't control 90% of whether we win or lose. If your 1/8th figure is accurate I should have said 87.5%. I would much prefer Cousins having a 12.5% impact on us winning or losing than going with Mannion having a 1% impact.

Cousins has the most impact on wins/losses of any other player on the team, almost twice as much as the next player based on the contract. He also touches the ball on every play on offense, and a little over half of the plays go through his arm. He does not play defense, but he can put his defense in a bad spot with turnovers and keep them on the field and give bad field position with short drives.

There is a reason QBs like Russel Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady and Mahomes consistently win. It isn't coincidence or luck, it is them making the team significantly better with their play on the field. Can a great QB have losing seasons because of the team around him? Sure, we saw that with Brees a few years back when his defense was truly bad. Not Washington 16th, 24th or 12th in scoring bad, but 31st, 32nd, and 32nd in scoring bad:


https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats ... tsdef/2014
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats ... tsdef/2015
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats ... tsdef/2016

So, while you are correct that a team can be so bad that no QB can win with them, Cousins has never played on a team that bad. Certainly not in MN.

[VikingsVictorious]

Stump I'm going to discuss Cousins with you just a little bit because I know how that can get out of hand. First why go looking throughout our board to check for incidences of whining about Cousins Prime Time record? When I go on Social Media and share all of Cousins great stats people have a high preponderence of bringing up his MNF win/loss record and record against winning teams. Those are easily the two biggest knocks against him. Where did I say that Cousins only had 1/50th impact on winning. It never happened. I said he was one player out of 50 give or take for game day actives and that is a fact. I would agree that he should be 1/8th responsible for our w/l record due to taking up 1/8th of our cap. He is more responsible for our Ws and Ls than the long snapper. Still not nearly enough to hold him accountable when the rest of the team takes up 87.5 % of our cap. Remember when I said he couldn't control 90% of whether we win or lose. If your 1/8th figure is accurate I should have said 87.5%. I would much prefer Cousins having a 12.5% impact on us winning or losing than going with Mannion having a 1% impact.

Cousins has the most impact on wins/losses of any other player on the team, almost twice as much as the next player based on the contract. He also touches the ball on every play on offense, and a little over half of the plays go through his arm. He does not play defense, but he can put his defense in a bad spot with turnovers and keep them on the field and give bad field position with short drives.

There is a reason QBs like Russel Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady and Mahomes consistently win. It isn't coincidence or luck, it is them making the team significantly better with their play on the field. Can a great QB have losing seasons because of the team around him? Sure, we saw that with Brees a few years back when his defense was truly bad. Not Washington 16th, 24th or 12th in scoring bad, but 31st, 32nd, and 32nd in scoring bad:


https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats ... tsdef/2014
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats ... tsdef/2015
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats ... tsdef/2016

So, while you are correct that a team can be so bad that no QB can win with them, Cousins has never played on a team that bad. Certainly not in MN.

Of course it isn't coincidence when teams that have very good QBs do well. We've done pretty well with Cousins so far IMO, coming off a 5th place season . If the D played like 2017 we might have won a Super Bowl already and I will leave it at that.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Cousins never had a good Redskins team so how is that Cousins’ fault?

He had some great weapons and a great line for 2 of his 3 years there.

Defensively his teams averaged out to be 17th in scoring efficiency.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats ... tsdef/2017


Here he has had the 3rd best and 8th best scoring defenses, a great WR corp and a great run game in 2019. His Oline, which was the biggest weakness in 2019, still gave up the 7th fewest sacks and allowed him the most time to throw in the NFL last year.

That amounted to 10 wins and a divisional round loss. That isn't all on him, but still, last season was a pretty good year to be a Vikings QB. 2017 was better, but that was probably the 2nd best team, outside of QB, we have fielded in this decade. Maybe the 3rd best team of the 2000's.

And we got beat by the NFC champs. We would’ve had to play 3 consecutive road games in the playoffs to get to the SB. That feat has only been done a couple of times in the history of the nfl. The saints, 49ers and packers on the road to get to the SB? If you win two of those you’re lucky.

Just because it was a “good year to be a Vikings QB” doesnt carry much weight. Our TEAM wasn’t anywhere near as good as SFs TEAM. Hell we had a better QB. But their defense and OL were absolutely dominant and it showed. Our defense and OL were NEVER that dominant at any point in the season. So just because it’s a good Vikings team, doesn’t mean he had some great opportunity to walk through the playoffs and get to the SB. Case keenum had a first round bye, a home game and then on the road in the NFC championship game. The only “easier” road that year was being the 1 seed. We were the 6 this year, that is the toughest possible road you could have.

As for Washington, he had a below average defense the 3 years he was the starter. They ranked 18th, 19th and 27th in points allowed per game those years. Just don’t even go there defending that defense. That team hasn’t had a relevant defense in years and I can tell you it sure wasn’t relevant when he was there. He also had no run game. They ranked 28th, 20th and 20th in those 3 years in rushing offense. Again, terrible. You’re trying to defend a team that would’ve been lucky to win 4 games if Kirk cousins wasn’t there. They weren’t good and haven’t been good quite some time. They are quickly turning into the browns of the nfl. There is no defending the redskins. Simple as that.

[RandyMoss84]

He had some great weapons and a great line for 2 of his 3 years there.

Defensively his teams averaged out to be 17th in scoring efficiency.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats ... tsdef/2017


Here he has had the 3rd best and 8th best scoring defenses, a great WR corp and a great run game in 2019. His Oline, which was the biggest weakness in 2019, still gave up the 7th fewest sacks and allowed him the most time to throw in the NFL last year.

That amounted to 10 wins and a divisional round loss. That isn't all on him, but still, last season was a pretty good year to be a Vikings QB. 2017 was better, but that was probably the 2nd best team, outside of QB, we have fielded in this decade. Maybe the 3rd best team of the 2000's.

And we got beat by the NFC champs. We would’ve had to play 3 consecutive road games in the playoffs to get to the SB. That feat has only been done a couple of times in the history of the nfl. The saints, 49ers and packers on the road to get to the SB? If you win two of those you’re lucky.

Just because it was a “good year to be a Vikings QB” doesnt carry much weight. Our TEAM wasn’t anywhere near as good as SFs TEAM. Hell we had a better QB. But their defense and OL were absolutely dominant and it showed. Our defense and OL were NEVER that dominant at any point in the season. So just because it’s a good Vikings team, doesn’t mean he had some great opportunity to walk through the playoffs and get to the SB. Case keenum had a first round bye, a home game and then on the road in the NFC championship game. The only “easier” road that year was being the 1 seed. We were the 6 this year, that is the toughest possible road you could have.

As for Washington, he had a below average defense the 3 years he was the starter. They ranked 18th, 19th and 27th in points allowed per game those years. Just don’t even go there defending that defense. That team hasn’t had a relevant defense in years and I can tell you it sure wasn’t relevant when he was there. He also had no run game. They ranked 28th, 20th and 20th in those 3 years in rushing offense. Again, terrible. You’re trying to defend a team that would’ve been lucky to win 4 games if Kirk cousins wasn’t there. They weren’t good and haven’t been good quite some time. They are quickly turning into the browns of the nfl. There is no defending the redskins. Simple as that.

Well said!