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I get that.84BreaksAnkles wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:41 pmI totally understand but my statement was in reply to mael’s hyperbolic claim that the “only qb worth taking went 1st overall”
Tua also had a 13 Wonderlic score. So injury prone and dumb as a box of rocks.. I'll pass. For reference Jameis Winston, a guy I don't think anyone would call bright, scored a 27.84BreaksAnkles wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:25 pmCmon mael, Tua’s worth a shot.Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:31 pm Why would you invest in a QB with a high pick when you just extended Kirk and have many glaring holes? The only QB worth taking this draft imo went first overall.
Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:05 pmTua also had a 13 Wonderlic score. So injury prone and dumb as a box of rocks.. I'll pass. For reference Jameis Winston, a guy I don't think anyone would call bright, scored a 27.
"We interviewed him. He's smart enough, but he's an RPO guy," an NFL scout told McGinn, referring to a run-pass option. "[Alabama offensive coordinator Steve] Sarkisian tried to do pro stuff, and [Tagovailoa] couldn't handle it mentally because all he'd ever done was RPO stuff. So they went back to RPO."
So he couldn't figure out college schemes but he's gonna do well against Belicheck?
All I see are facts. Both primarily won with their legs and never threw for more than 3,400 yards. You think Tua will win with his legs like them?kidfozzy. wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:32 pmMaelstrom88 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:05 pm
Tua also had a 13 Wonderlic score. So injury prone and dumb as a box of rocks.. I'll pass. For reference Jameis Winston, a guy I don't think anyone would call bright, scored a 27.
"We interviewed him. He's smart enough, but he's an RPO guy," an NFL scout told McGinn, referring to a run-pass option. "[Alabama offensive coordinator Steve] Sarkisian tried to do pro stuff, and [Tagovailoa] couldn't handle it mentally because all he'd ever done was RPO stuff. So they went back to RPO."
So he couldn't figure out college schemes but he's gonna do well against Belicheck?
Lamar Jackson and Steve McNair must be both dumb as rocks too. Both scored at/below 15 on their Wonderlic test.
Exactly. And how many teams in the league have back up QB's who are a serious challenge to their starter? Unless your starter is Mariotta or Winston or a declining Eli, you don't spend big money on a back up. Although many don't believe it, Kirk is a really good QB.Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:31 pm Why would you invest in a QB with a high pick when you just extended Kirk and have many glaring holes? The only QB worth taking this draft imo went first overall.
You'd have to give up the farm to move up far enough to get him, and he is pretty high risk.84BreaksAnkles wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:25 pmCmon mael, Tua’s worth a shot.Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:31 pm Why would you invest in a QB with a high pick when you just extended Kirk and have many glaring holes? The only QB worth taking this draft imo went first overall.
The Patriots, the Packers, the Colts, the Eagles to name a few. And the Washington Redskins when they drafted Cousins. Give or take depending on your definition of a high pick. But a lot of teams will invest a 3rd/4th or higher to find a backup at the most important position on the field. Just not this team.Fat Stupid Loser wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:03 pmExactly. And how many teams in the league have back up QB's who are a serious challenge to their starter? Unless your starter is Mariotta or Winston or a declining Eli, you don't spend big money on a back up. Although many don't believe it, Kirk is a really good QB.Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:31 pm Why would you invest in a QB with a high pick when you just extended Kirk and have many glaring holes? The only QB worth taking this draft imo went first overall.
It's definitely an interesting debate. I used to be in the camp of always trying to draft and develop QBs creating competition for the starter and flipping the ones you develop. However, over the years I've changed my thinking on it.S197 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:26 pm These QBs are not necessarily sunk costs if they’re not used either. You even see this with teams that have HOF QBs. They draft for contingency, develop them, then trade them for draft capital. The Patriots did this with Jimmy G and Brissett. The Packers did something similar during the Favre era with Brooks, Brunell, and Hasselbeck.
I think being able to flip players is more of a secondary benefit. The main reason to do it is still because you want a reliable backup to continue the season and also a potential heir apparent. The Eagles are a good example of this where even after Wentz went down, they were able to still win the championship in part due to Foles. The second case can be seen in the Favre/Rodgers era where Rodgers got the benefit of sitting and learning for many years and the Packers were given a smooth transition between franchise QBs.Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:48 pmIt's definitely an interesting debate. I used to be in the camp of always trying to draft and develop QBs creating competition for the starter and flipping the ones you develop. However, over the years I've changed my thinking on it.S197 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:26 pm These QBs are not necessarily sunk costs if they’re not used either. You even see this with teams that have HOF QBs. They draft for contingency, develop them, then trade them for draft capital. The Patriots did this with Jimmy G and Brissett. The Packers did something similar during the Favre era with Brooks, Brunell, and Hasselbeck.
For example, if you take a guy in the second round and your starter gets hurt then the second rounder plays what are the odds he's going to play well enough to make a team trade you a 1st in exchange for him? You would of course want a 1st so you could get a net plus on the second you spent plus the time invested in coaching him up. How much higher would the 1st be vs. where you took him in the second? What's the bust rate of second round Qbs vs. other positions? What's the bust rate of 4th, 5th, 6th round QBs etc.?
I've changed my mind as far as team building goes to what Bill Polian did with Manning. He knew it was going to be nigh impossible to create competition for Manning and if Manning gets hurt the season is a wash anyways. So why not use all your draft capital to build the best roster around that QB as you can? Of course, you must have confidence your QB is the guy to get you that Super Bowl to have this mentality which clearly the Vikings have that faith in Kirk. I think when you take a QB you're better off going all in on a high pick rather than rolling dice on a bunch of half measure guys hoping to strike gold.
Seems like the Eagles look at it as a primary benefit:
I wouldn't have been upset if the Vikings had drafted Eason in the 3rd for exactly the reasons you listed. It would have been a great situation for him to sit and develop and he has a high ceiling.S197 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:34 am I think that’s why I liked him as a late 3rd (practically a 4th) round pick. He could sit for two years behind Cousins and pick up the nuances. The physical traits you can’t teach are there. I like giving guys with the physical tools time to incubate rather than being thrust into a starting role. He would have had that here. And the cost was low enough it wouldn’t have been that prohibitive if he didn’t pan out.
If Cincinnati or Miami win the Super Bowl with Tua or Burrow I will become more interested in us doing so.808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:55 pm If we are all fine with 9-7, 10-6, one and done in the playoffs, let's never take a chance on another QB and extend Cousins until forever.