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Re: Vikings Roster Review
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:40 pm
by J. Kapp 11
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:29 pm
fiestavike wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:20 pm
Reiff probably stays because they likely can't get better for much less. I know there are those who hate him, but unless they deem Hill to be not a significant downgrade, I can't see them seriously advocating letting him go. There are going to be some interesting decisions, which is basically what I was trying to initiate a discussion about.
Rhodes might go, but for 8 million, who can they retain/get to replace him? There is a big chunk of dead cap with his contract either way.
A big question is whether the Vikings are focused primarily on 2020 or on long term consistency. In 2020, Griffen might be worth keeping, but do you want to let Weatherly and/or Odenigbo walk to keep Griffen for 1, maybe 2 less than prime years?
If Griffen were on the same contract and didn't need a new one with more guarantees, he is a great value. Unfortunately, they had to re-work him this year and now we are looking at paying a large chunk of guaranteed cash to an aging DE. Like you said, great for next season, but probably not long term.
I don't even think Griffen's deal is good for next season. In fact, I'd say in our current situation of cap hell, there is no way we can possibly keep Griffen on his current deal. His cap hit for next year is $13.9 million. OTOH, it costs $800,000 in dead cap to cut him. I don't even see the point in restructuring. No matter what, he's going to cost more than Odenigbo, who we can probably sign fairly cheaply, and who can likely match or exceed Griffen's production if he takes his place as a starter.
Re: Vikings Roster Review
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:26 pm
by StumpHunter
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:40 pm
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:29 pm
If Griffen were on the same contract and didn't need a new one with more guarantees, he is a great value. Unfortunately, they had to re-work him this year and now we are looking at paying a large chunk of guaranteed cash to an aging DE. Like you said, great for next season, but probably not long term.
I don't even think Griffen's deal is good for next season. In fact, I'd say in our current situation of cap hell, there is no way we can possibly keep Griffen on his current deal. His cap hit for next year is $13.9 million. OTOH, it costs $800,000 in dead cap to cut him. I don't even see the point in restructuring. No matter what, he's going to cost more than Odenigbo, who we can probably sign fairly cheaply, and who can likely match or exceed Griffen's production if he takes his place as a starter.
Bumping this because talking about the current season sucks now.
If Odenigbo can match Griffen's production, why would we be able sign him cheaply?
Re: Vikings Roster Review
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:29 pm
by fiestavike
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:26 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:40 pm
I don't even think Griffen's deal is good for next season. In fact, I'd say in our current situation of cap hell, there is no way we can possibly keep Griffen on his current deal. His cap hit for next year is $13.9 million. OTOH, it costs $800,000 in dead cap to cut him. I don't even see the point in restructuring. No matter what, he's going to cost more than Odenigbo, who we can probably sign fairly cheaply, and who can likely match or exceed Griffen's production if he takes his place as a starter.
Bumping this because talking about the current season sucks now.
If Odenigbo can match Griffen's production, why would we be able sign him cheaply?
I was very disappointed with the character of the offense in this one. Clearly the 9ers were the better team, but after Bosa cheap shotted O'neill, nobody even took out his knees to send a message? In the end, this Vikings offense is soft.
Re: Vikings Roster Review
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:29 pm
by Maelstrom88
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:26 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:40 pm
I don't even think Griffen's deal is good for next season. In fact, I'd say in our current situation of cap hell, there is no way we can possibly keep Griffen on his current deal. His cap hit for next year is $13.9 million. OTOH, it costs $800,000 in dead cap to cut him. I don't even see the point in restructuring. No matter what, he's going to cost more than Odenigbo, who we can probably sign fairly cheaply, and who can likely match or exceed Griffen's production if he takes his place as a starter.
Bumping this because talking about the current season sucks now.
If Odenigbo can match Griffen's production, why would we be able sign him cheaply?
He's still relatively unknown. He is also already signed for next year.
https://overthecap.com/player/ifeadi-odenigbo/5806/
Re: Vikings Roster Review
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:32 pm
by J. Kapp 11
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:26 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:40 pm
I don't even think Griffen's deal is good for next season. In fact, I'd say in our current situation of cap hell, there is no way we can possibly keep Griffen on his current deal. His cap hit for next year is $13.9 million. OTOH, it costs $800,000 in dead cap to cut him. I don't even see the point in restructuring. No matter what, he's going to cost more than Odenigbo, who we can probably sign fairly cheaply, and who can likely match or exceed Griffen's production if he takes his place as a starter.
Bumping this because talking about the current season sucks now.
If Odenigbo can match Griffen's production, why would we be able sign him cheaply?
Because he hasn't done it yet. It's based mostly on potential, not so much resume.
Remember when Griffen was in this situation? 4th-round draft choice, stuck behind Jared Allen and Ray Edwards. But you could see the potential. Remember? He was the gunner on the punt team. Finally they made him the starter, and he was cheap at first.
Odenigbo has no negotiating leverage at this point. Seventh-round draft choice. Getting his first meaningful snaps this year. He's also a restricted free agent. Can probably get him for maybe $2 million. Compared to Griffen's $14 million, that's cheap.
Re: Vikings Roster Review
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:35 pm
by fiestavike
Griffen didnt really show up strong for this game anyway.
Re: Vikings Roster Review
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:23 pm
by Pondering Her Percy
fiestavike wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:35 pm
Griffen didnt really show up strong for this game anyway.
Deciding griffens future on one game isn’t smart if you ask me. Why create a hole at DE when we have plenty of others to fill? I don’t have faith that weatherly or Odenigbo solve that. Our DTs are already pathetic at rushing the passer. If we get rid of griffen, we might as well blitz every play because we aren’t getting to the QB
Re: Vikings Roster Review
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:24 pm
by StumpHunter
fiestavike wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:35 pm
Griffen didnt really show up strong for this game anyway.
No he did not.
I think some team with a ton of cap, like Miami, will overpay for him and we won't be able to compete.
Moving on to who we will keep, and how we can make this team better.
Cutting Joseph and Rhodes gives this team 28 million in cap. Restructuring Diggs and Hunter could get us to 36.
Harris and Mack will cost about half that. With the rest, the Vikings will probably pay Waynes (9 million) out of necessity and Bailey (3 million). That doesn't leave anything else really for free agents.
I did like Hill when he was in this year, and if the Vikings think he can start, by all means cut Reiff. That doesn't save us a ton of cap, because Hill might make a decent contract this year based on how much FA Oline were paid this past free agency.
A controversial take: Trade Cook. Avoid a messy camp hold out, and don't pay a guy who has never proven he can hold up an entire season. I know he was the most important part of the offense this year, but there are no guarantees he can be that again.
That leaves the Vikings with the following holes that need to be filled via the draft, and actual draft capital to fill those needs:
DT x 2
DE
LG
Re: Vikings Roster Review
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:31 pm
by RandyMoss84
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:24 pm
fiestavike wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:35 pm
Griffen didnt really show up strong for this game anyway.
A controversial take: Trade Cook. Avoid a messy camp hold out, and don't pay a guy who has never proven he can hold up an entire season. I know he was the most important part of the offense this year, but there are no guarantees he can be that again.
I saw that Vikings are discussing an extension with Cook, it seems like a big mistake, Cook can not prove that he can stay healthy for a full season
Re: Vikings Roster Review
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:49 pm
by StumpHunter
RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:31 pm
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:24 pm
A controversial take: Trade Cook. Avoid a messy camp hold out, and don't pay a guy who has never proven he can hold up an entire season. I know he was the most important part of the offense this year, but there are no guarantees he can be that again.
I saw that Vikings are discussing an extension with Cook, it seems like a big mistake, Cook can not prove that he can stay healthy for a full season
That makes sense. Rick really does value the RB position a good deal, even before Zimmer was the HC.
If it is a reasonable contract, fine, but I don't think it will be.
Re: Vikings Roster Review
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:24 pm
by Maelstrom88
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:24 pm
fiestavike wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:35 pm
Griffen didnt really show up strong for this game anyway.
No he did not.
I think some team with a ton of cap, like Miami, will overpay for him and we won't be able to compete.
Moving on to who we will keep, and how we can make this team better.
Cutting Joseph and Rhodes gives this team 28 million in cap. Restructuring Diggs and Hunter could get us to 36.
Harris and Mack will cost about half that. With the rest, the Vikings will probably pay Waynes (9 million) out of necessity and Bailey (3 million). That doesn't leave anything else really for free agents.
I did like Hill when he was in this year, and if the Vikings think he can start, by all means cut Reiff. That doesn't save us a ton of cap, because Hill might make a decent contract this year based on how much FA Oline were paid this past free agency.
A controversial take: Trade Cook. Avoid a messy camp hold out, and don't pay a guy who has never proven he can hold up an entire season. I know he was the most important part of the offense this year, but there are no guarantees he can be that again.
That leaves the Vikings with the following holes that need to be filled via the draft, and actual draft capital to fill those needs:
DT x 2
DE
LG
I like the idea of trading Cook. Great talent but can't carry the load and stay healthy. Also, I don't believe in giving runningbacks a lot of money.
I agree Griffen will get more than we can afford. Joseph is old and can't rush the passer. I have a lot of confidence in Odenigbo. Whats Jalen Holmes up to? I'd like to see a pass rushing DT in the first or an offensive tackle to replace Reiff (who I would also cut). Elflein needs to be replaced too.
Re: Vikings Roster Review
Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:13 am
by fiestavike
Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:23 pm
fiestavike wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:35 pm
Griffen didnt really show up strong for this game anyway.
Deciding griffens future on one game isn’t smart if you ask me.
oh good.
Re: Vikings Roster Review
Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:31 am
by Pondering Her Percy
Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:24 pm
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:24 pm
No he did not.
I think some team with a ton of cap, like Miami, will overpay for him and we won't be able to compete.
Moving on to who we will keep, and how we can make this team better.
Cutting Joseph and Rhodes gives this team 28 million in cap. Restructuring Diggs and Hunter could get us to 36.
Harris and Mack will cost about half that. With the rest, the Vikings will probably pay Waynes (9 million) out of necessity and Bailey (3 million). That doesn't leave anything else really for free agents.
I did like Hill when he was in this year, and if the Vikings think he can start, by all means cut Reiff. That doesn't save us a ton of cap, because Hill might make a decent contract this year based on how much FA Oline were paid this past free agency.
A controversial take: Trade Cook. Avoid a messy camp hold out, and don't pay a guy who has never proven he can hold up an entire season. I know he was the most important part of the offense this year, but there are no guarantees he can be that again.
That leaves the Vikings with the following holes that need to be filled via the draft, and actual draft capital to fill those needs:
DT x 2
DE
LG
I like the idea of trading Cook. Great talent but can't carry the load and stay healthy. Also, I don't believe in giving runningbacks a lot of money.
I agree Griffen will get more than we can afford. Joseph is old and can't rush the passer. I have a lot of confidence in Odenigbo. Whats Jalen Holmes up to? I'd like to see a pass rushing DT in the first or an offensive tackle to replace Reiff (who I would also cut). Elflein needs to be replaced too.
Well this is kind of my point. We can’t just walk away from every underperforming player otherwise we are going to create too many holes to fill. We need to pick and choose wisely who we need to walk away from.
Trading cook is the last thing I’d do. I think it would be absolutely asinine to trade him. He’s a top back in the nfl. How many RBs stay healthy from start to finish anymore? Hence why teams go with 2 RBs. Cook is the focal point of this offense. And I don’t understand why anyone thinks griffen is a lock to go elsewhere. There is so little we know about these contracts and what can be done. We have the best cap guy in the nfl. All guys did last year was say we’d be losing a ton because of our cap issues. And we lost what? Richardson? A guy that was on a one year rental contract. Not saying we aren’t going to lose anyone but I think we’re going overboard with some of these takes. At this point, why don’t we just cut everyone and start from scratch
Re: Vikings Roster Review
Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:42 am
by StumpHunter
fiestavike wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:13 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:23 pm
Deciding griffens future on one game isn’t smart if you ask me.
oh good.
Let's all pretend you didn't say you wanted to move on from Griffen BEFORE this one game.
Re: Vikings Roster Review
Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:53 am
by Pondering Her Percy
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:42 am
Let's all pretend you didn't say you wanted to move on from Griffen BEFORE this one game.
Regardless?, his play has proven he is still a productive DE and a veteran leader on this team. I simply don’t think it’s a guarantee he is gone by any means. Again, cutting this guy and that guy and this guy and that guy because fans are frustrated and want to blow everything up isn’t the answer. This opens up more holes than one could handle in an offseason. If we had a DL like SF and had pass rushers all along it, I’d be willing to part with a guy like griff. But when he’s your only other legitimate pass rusher outside of hunter, we’d be lucky to touch a QB next year. We’d be about as good as that Oakland pass rush
