Vikings Message Board.Com

StpViking wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:16 pm I am a Kirk Cousins Apologist, even I am starting to see that Cousins is another Tunnel Vision QB. When he gets pressured or feels pressured, he immediately zeros in on Thielen or Diggs. Down and distance, play concept, none of that matters, all he thinks about is getting the ball to them, covered or not.

Release Mannion, bring Sloter back. Tell the $84 million dollar QB he is on very short leash. He does this again where he cost the team a hard earned victory. Bench him and his guaranteed money.

And yes, I know he is a Cardinal now. Trade for him, hell trade Cousin for him.

StpViking wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:16 pm I am a Kirk Cousins Apologist, even I am starting to see that Cousins is another Tunnel Vision QB. When he gets pressured or feels pressured, he immediately zeros in on Thielen or Diggs. Down and distance, play concept, none of that matters, all he thinks about is getting the ball to them, covered or not.

Release Mannion, bring Sloter back. Tell the $84 million dollar QB he is on very short leash. He does this again where he cost the team a hard earned victory. Bench him and his guaranteed money.

And yes, I know he is a Cardinal now. Trade for him, hell trade Cousin for him.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:12 am

StpViking wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:16 pm I am a Kirk Cousins Apologist, even I am starting to see that Cousins is another Tunnel Vision QB. When he gets pressured or feels pressured, he immediately zeros in on Thielen or Diggs. Down and distance, play concept, none of that matters, all he thinks about is getting the ball to them, covered or not.

Release Mannion, bring Sloter back. Tell the $84 million dollar QB he is on very short leash. He does this again where he cost the team a hard earned victory. Bench him and his guaranteed money.

And yes, I know he is a Cardinal now. Trade for him, hell trade Cousin for him.

Dude just stop with sloter. Literally. The guy has never attempted a meaningful pass in the nfl. Stop acting like the guy is relevant. He’s not. Enough

mansquatch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:34 am What annoyed me most about Cousins in this game is we have seen him play A LOT better than he did on Sunday. He was missing a lot of throws.

I wonder if something else is at play here. Like maybe they spent most of training camp installing the zone running scheme and didn't give the passing game the time it needs to develop the crispness required to be successful in the NFL? That is just speculation, but we saw a lot of situations yesterday where Kirk overthrew receivers or, in the case of the Rudolph end zone throw they were not on the same page. It is one thing when a rookie WR / TE makes that mistake. It is another when two vets have it happen. It is obvious that the passing game is not where it needs to be right now in terms of execution. How soon can they fix it?

Given the veteran coaching on the offensive staff, there really isn't a good excuse, so in the end it is just frustrating.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:54 am

mansquatch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:34 am What annoyed me most about Cousins in this game is we have seen him play A LOT better than he did on Sunday. He was missing a lot of throws.

I wonder if something else is at play here. Like maybe they spent most of training camp installing the zone running scheme and didn't give the passing game the time it needs to develop the crispness required to be successful in the NFL? That is just speculation, but we saw a lot of situations yesterday where Kirk overthrew receivers or, in the case of the Rudolph end zone throw they were not on the same page. It is one thing when a rookie WR / TE makes that mistake. It is another when two vets have it happen. It is obvious that the passing game is not where it needs to be right now in terms of execution. How soon can they fix it?

Given the veteran coaching on the offensive staff, there really isn't a good excuse, so in the end it is just frustrating.

I saw the same. Most of his misses were overthrows, and he doesn't usually do that. It was like he was more jacked up or something and putting more mustard on it than necessary.

But his decision making sucked yesterday too. No need to force either pass that was intercepted.

But even deeper than that for me is that Cousins only becomes as relevant as he became because the Vikings got so far down so early. If the defense doesn't allow those early 21 points, the Vikings can play their game and Cousins doesn't have to be the hero. If Cousins doesn't have to be the hero and instead can just play QB, I think he doesn't press and he isn't as amped up.

Cousins is going to be effective when he can just play QB, and he's going to be able to just play QB when the team around him does their jobs. In other words, make field goals and keep the other team from getting ahead 21-0. If the 2019 Vikings are really that good of a team, then asking them to collectively do that isn't asking too much.

It's early in the season. Lucy is holding the ball and I find myself thinking like Charlie Brown right now that this time she's not going to yank the ball away when I try to kick it. This time is going to be different. One of these years it has to be different, doesn't it?

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:52 am We see this kind of play from him pretty consistently in big games I would say. The guy is great against bad teams, bad against good ones. That is who he is.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:03 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:52 am We see this kind of play from him pretty consistently in big games I would say. The guy is great against bad teams, bad against good ones. That is who he is.

I'd say the same about the Vikings defense under Mike Zimmer.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:03 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:52 am We see this kind of play from him pretty consistently in big games I would say. The guy is great against bad teams, bad against good ones. That is who he is.

I'd say the same about the Vikings defense under Mike Zimmer.

allday1991 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:08 am Id have to agree we are overrated all around. So how long do we take this before blowing it up?

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:42 am

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:03 am

I'd say the same about the Vikings defense under Mike Zimmer.

Well let's take a look at last year?

Against the Rams, 100% the defense sucked in that game.

Eagles? Nope, held the Eagles to 14 until a last minute garbage TD.

Saints? 23 points given up by the defense against a team that averaged 32. Didn't shut them down, but held them to well below their average.

Bears? Held them to 18, turned them over 3 times.

NE? Held an offense that averaged 27 to 24 and fell apart at the end giving up 14 points in the final quarter and a half. Against the greatest QB of all time with the offense doing nothing the entire game.

Seattle? 14 points given up.

Chicago? 24 points given up against a team that averaged 26.

One out of 7 playoff teams scored more points than they averaged on the season. 3 out of the 7 I would argue were really good defensive performances. 3 more were at least above average performances.

Room for improvement, but Zimmer's defenses are far from consistently "bad" against good teams.

Held an offense that averaged 27 to 24 and fell apart at the end giving up 14 points in the final quarter and a half.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:03 pm

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:42 am

Well let's take a look at last year?

Against the Rams, 100% the defense sucked in that game.

Eagles? Nope, held the Eagles to 14 until a last minute garbage TD.

Saints? 23 points given up by the defense against a team that averaged 32. Didn't shut them down, but held them to well below their average.

Bears? Held them to 18, turned them over 3 times.

NE? Held an offense that averaged 27 to 24 and fell apart at the end giving up 14 points in the final quarter and a half. Against the greatest QB of all time with the offense doing nothing the entire game.

Seattle? 14 points given up.

Chicago? 24 points given up against a team that averaged 26.

One out of 7 playoff teams scored more points than they averaged on the season. 3 out of the 7 I would argue were really good defensive performances. 3 more were at least above average performances.

Room for improvement, but Zimmer's defenses are far from consistently "bad" against good teams.

I love what you wrote about the game against New England:

Held an offense that averaged 27 to 24 and fell apart at the end giving up 14 points in the final quarter and a half.

My guess is I could point to stretches of those games where Cousins played well too.

My basic point is, it's a team game. 100% a team game. You absolve the defense while blaming Cousins. The defense is excused, their mistakes and errors minimized while Cousins is not excused, his mistakes and errors maximized, and in fact, his mistakes and errors portrayed as the SOLE cause of many of the losses.

Against the greatest QB of all time with the offense doing nothing the entire game.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:15 pm The defense wore down at the end, because the offense had them on the field the entire game. 16 first downs all game, 3 for 12 on 3rd down. Multiple 3 and outs combined with a bad turnover by the QB. Against the GOAT.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:50 pm

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:15 pm The defense wore down at the end, because the offense had them on the field the entire game. 16 first downs all game, 3 for 12 on 3rd down. Multiple 3 and outs combined with a bad turnover by the QB. Against the GOAT.

If you want to keep making excuses for the defense go ahead.

Maybe the 2019 Vikings will be the greatest defense in history not to make the playoffs, or that will be one-and-done in the playoffs.

Let's have a friendly wager. The loser just has to admit he was wrong. I'll admit I'm wrong about the greatness of the defense. You admit you're wrong to put all the blame on Cousins after every loss.

The wager will be this:

I think the defense lays another egg against the Bears in Chicago. It will be similar to what we saw against the Packers. It might not happen right away in the game, but against the vaunted Mitchell Trubisky-led offensive juggernaut that is the 2019 Bears offense, this Vikings defense will surrender another 21+ points and 100+ yards rushing.

I also predict Cousins will blow it again a few times in that game, probably with another fumble and a pick or two, so he won't be blameless either.

But after that game, if the defense surrenders 3 or more TDs to that offense, you come on here and state you were wrong to blame Cousins for the Packers loss and admit the defense isn't as great as you thought.

For my part, I'll be more than happy to acknowledge I was wrong about the defense if they shut down Trubisky and the Bears on the road.

You willing to agree to that?