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Re: Treadwell trade?
Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:09 am
by CharVike
S197 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:50 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:34 pm
From what the coaches are saying in training camp, it appears the WR3 position is Beebe's to lose. Zimmer raves about how he doesn't have to slow down at the top of his route, like most receivers. Beebe's problem has been staying healthy. Gotta stay on the field.
Treadwell has no trade value. Zero. Unfortunately his dead hit of $2.5 million makes him tough to cut, especially given our tight cap situation.
Zimmer hasn’t sounded very happy with the rookie WRs either making Treadwell’s chances better. I think he makes it if they keep 6, otherwise it will be Bebee, Zylstra, and Taylor most likely.
The rookies are 7th round picks. They both lack something big time. And this Mitchell guy is a pain in the a@@ with daddy involved. He should have been cut right then and there. Now we have this joke, who thinks is a top WR, and his daddy involved. I would never put up with that BS if I was serious about getting to the show. If either of those 7th rounders make the practice squad I will be shocked. Better players with some upside will be cut and we are better off signing one of them. I've read some good things about that TE I like Conklin. Beebe almost seems like the perfect fit for the slot. I'm still hoping Treadwell does something. Having a new OC every year may have slowed his development. And WR is a tough position. But his lack of speed and zero separation ability are major concerns.
Re: Treadwell trade?
Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:43 am
by StumpHunter
CharVike wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:09 am
S197 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:50 am
Zimmer hasn’t sounded very happy with the rookie WRs either making Treadwell’s chances better. I think he makes it if they keep 6, otherwise it will be Bebee, Zylstra, and Taylor most likely.
The rookies are 7th round picks. They both lack something big time. And this Mitchell guy is a pain in the a@@ with daddy involved. He should have been cut right then and there. Now we have this joke, who thinks is a top WR, and his daddy involved. I would never put up with that BS if I was serious about getting to the show. If either of those 7th rounders make the practice squad I will be shocked. Better players with some upside will be cut and we are better off signing one of them. I've read some good things about that TE I like Conklin. Beebe almost seems like the perfect fit for the slot. I'm still hoping Treadwell does something. Having a new OC every year may have slowed his development. And WR is a tough position. But his lack of speed and zero separation ability are major concerns.
I question this coaching staff's ability to evaluate WR talent on the team. I know it is a new OC, but Zim makes the final decision on who starts, and he felt Diggs wasn't as good as Charlie Johnson before the 2015 season, and refused to play Theilen in significant time until 2016. Even after he proved he was really good against the best secondary in the NFL early in 2015 against the Broncos.
I am a big Zim guy, but those are two huge misses in my opinion. Misses that were eventually rectified, but it should have been obvious to anyone that Diggs and Theilen were the best two WRs on the team in 2015.
Re: Treadwell trade?
Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:43 pm
by S197
Norv Zimmer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:10 am
I think the vikings keep 5 wr. Diggs, theilen, Beebe, zylstra, Taylor. They will utilize irv Smith as a wr often.
If Treadwell can't be moved he will be cut .
Just my opinion
I could see this happening. Especially since it sounds like Conklin has been having a pretty good camp so far.
Re: Treadwell trade?
Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:09 am
by S197
It’s still early but based on some of the blog reports there’s a pretty big drop off after Beebe. Dillon Mitchell hasn’t had one good day yet and Zylstra had some bad drops today. Treadwell apparently made some nice plays but against backups.
Re: Treadwell trade?
Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:31 am
by CharVike
Norv Zimmer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:10 am
I think the vikings keep 5 wr. Diggs, theilen, Beebe, zylstra, Taylor. They will utilize irv Smith as a wr often.
If Treadwell can't be moved he will be cut .
Just my opinion
I hear Smith will play WR but I wonder how that will benefit us? Should be interesting.
Re: Treadwell trade?
Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:36 pm
by CharVike
S197 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:09 am
It’s still early but based on some of the blog reports there’s a pretty big drop off after Beebe. Dillon Mitchell hasn’t had one good day yet and Zylstra had some bad drops today. Treadwell apparently made some nice plays but against backups.
I'm still holding out some hope for Treadwell. I certainly don't expect him to be at our starters level but it would be nice if they could find a niche for him. The guy has some solid skills. He was a 1st round pick. You never know with the right coaching and him finally getting it maybe he can help. That would be a huge plus for us. But I'm certainly not taking that as a given. I also don't think Mitchell even makes the practice squad. Nothing stands out with this guy. Basically a camp body. There will be better players cut. At least Treadwell has some experience.
Re: Treadwell trade?
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:10 am
by CharVike
Norv Zimmer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:10 am
I think the vikings keep 5 wr. Diggs, theilen, Beebe, zylstra, Taylor. They will utilize irv Smith as a wr often.
If Treadwell can't be moved he will be cut .
Just my opinion
I hear Smith will play WR but I wonder how that will benefit us? Should be interesting. Not sure if the D will use a S/CB or LB to cover him.
Dillon Mitchell’s hands are officially a concern. He had a couple more drops and has yet to register a “clean” practice. Kyle Sloter continued his alarmingly uneven camp with a few nice passes and a couple absolute head scratchers. One throw was particularly egregious:
Say bye bye to Mitchell. Can't catch in practice. Maybe Daddy will jump in now and get this straight for him. Practice squad is out of the questions. Sloter won't be going anywhere.
Re: Treadwell trade?
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:25 am
by Maelstrom88
I'd rather just let him play this year out and see if he can turn it around. The off-season has made me forget.
Re: Treadwell trade?
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:01 pm
by S197
Dailynorseman seems to think Treadwell won’t make it. They project the Vikings keeping 5 with Taylor and Badet taking the last two spots. Both Zylstra and Treadwell cut. In their place, an extra TE spot.
Re: Treadwell trade?
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:33 am
by PurpleMustReign
S197 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:01 pm
Dailynorseman seems to think Treadwell won’t make it. They project the Vikings keeping 5 with Taylor and Badet taking the last two spots. Both Zylstra and Treadwell cut. In their place, an extra TE spot.
The extra TE makes sense with who they have. They've got 4 decent to good ones, and Smith could easily line up as a WR at times.
Re: Treadwell trade?
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:23 pm
by VikingLord
S197 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:01 pm
Dailynorseman seems to think Treadwell won’t make it. They project the Vikings keeping 5 with Taylor and Badet taking the last two spots. Both Zylstra and Treadwell cut. In their place, an extra TE spot.
Sucks to take that cap hit for no benefit, but Spielman needs to take the long view and if there is a younger, better option that he needs to protect from waivers or even has a chance to get on the field, Treadwell has to go if he can't break into the starting WR rotation.
Re: Treadwell trade?
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:40 pm
by S197
VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:23 pm
S197 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:01 pm
Dailynorseman seems to think Treadwell won’t make it. They project the Vikings keeping 5 with Taylor and Badet taking the last two spots. Both Zylstra and Treadwell cut. In their place, an extra TE spot.
Sucks to take that cap hit for no benefit, but Spielman needs to take the long view and if there is a younger, better option that he needs to protect from waivers or even has a chance to get on the field, Treadwell has to go if he can't break into the starting WR rotation.
Vikings released their first depth chart and both Badet and Treadwell are 3rd string so it will likely come down to who plays better in preseason. Unless they keep 6.
Other notables I saw was Samia is still 3rd string guard. Watts is buried in a deep DT field. Derron Smith is ahead of Epps at safety. Holton Hill is at the very bottom of the depth chart. Abdullah is ahead of Boone.
Things will definitely move over the coming weeks but right now, no rookie taken after the 3rd round is in position to make the team.
Re: Treadwell trade?
Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:13 pm
by VikingLord
The Treadwell situation just underscores why I think rookie contracts should offer less guaranteed money. Just because a guy is taken in the 1st, or high in the 1st, doesn't mean he's going to work out, and when he doesn't, the team that signed him is stuck in the situation the Vikings are this year with possibly significant dead weight for a player who may not even see the field or be on the team.
Plus, that dead money is cash that can't go to a worthy vet, either a player who is already on the team or a FA the team could use to improve itself. It's just wasteful in every way to ink guys who haven't done anything as pros to big money contracts based solely on potential.
While I'm sure the player's union probably wouldn't go for it, the argument for allocating more money to established vets who have proven their worth in the league should be a good one that looks after the interest of players just as much as richly rewarding untested rookies.
Re: Treadwell trade?
Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:31 pm
by CharVike
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:43 am
CharVike wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:09 am
The rookies are 7th round picks. They both lack something big time. And this Mitchell guy is a pain in the a@@ with daddy involved. He should have been cut right then and there. Now we have this joke, who thinks is a top WR, and his daddy involved. I would never put up with that BS if I was serious about getting to the show. If either of those 7th rounders make the practice squad I will be shocked. Better players with some upside will be cut and we are better off signing one of them. I've read some good things about that TE I like Conklin. Beebe almost seems like the perfect fit for the slot. I'm still hoping Treadwell does something. Having a new OC every year may have slowed his development. And WR is a tough position. But his lack of speed and zero separation ability are major concerns.
I question this coaching staff's ability to evaluate WR talent on the team. I know it is a new OC, but Zim makes the final decision on who starts, and he felt Diggs wasn't as good as Charlie Johnson before the 2015 season, and refused to play Theilen in significant time until 2016. Even after he proved he was really good against the best secondary in the NFL early in 2015 against the Broncos.
I am a big Zim guy, but those are two huge misses in my opinion. Misses that were eventually rectified, but it should have been obvious to anyone that Diggs and Theilen were the best two WRs on the team in 2015.
Are you sure Zim decides who starts on offense? Theilman was a project. Maybe they thought he wasn't ready and didn't want to ruin him. Zim wants to run the ball and last year it was nothing but pass. Why didn't he stop that if he is the offensive guy. IMO I think he turns the offense over to the OC, which he should, and the OC makes the decisions. Now we have two guys which is another joke and him running the offense. Just based on that we will struggle big time. Even Rodgers would struggle with 3 guys running the show. You can't have that. One guy likes to run another likes shorter passing and the other likes the long ball. That will never work and not many would think it could. 3 guys cover one position.
Re: Treadwell trade?
Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:32 pm
by S197
VikingLord wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:13 pm
The Treadwell situation just underscores why I think rookie contracts should offer less guaranteed money. Just because a guy is taken in the 1st, or high in the 1st, doesn't mean he's going to work out, and when he doesn't, the team that signed him is stuck in the situation the Vikings are this year with possibly significant dead weight for a player who may not even see the field or be on the team.
Plus, that dead money is cash that can't go to a worthy vet, either a player who is already on the team or a FA the team could use to improve itself. It's just wasteful in every way to ink guys who haven't done anything as pros to big money contracts based solely on potential.
While I'm sure the player's union probably wouldn't go for it, the argument for allocating more money to established vets who have proven their worth in the league should be a good one that looks after the interest of players just as much as richly rewarding untested rookies.
The rookies already get less guaranteed as part of a deal to give more to vets. They used to get $100M contracts at the peak. I don’t see another negotiation anytime soon.
