Vikings Message Board.Com

PurpleMustReign wrote: ↑Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:45 pm He's been praised by whoever he's coached. I would be ok with him being made the full time OC. I think the fact that he's survived as many coaches as he has speaks volumes especially nowadays.
It annoys me that teams want the next Sean mcvay because he really hasn't done anything yet. He's clearly improved a team that struggled for a ong time but he's still 0-1 in the playoffs and is in his third year. Even Zimmer had early success.

Not to that degree that, he didn't...

I think McVay has accomplished a lot. He took over a 4 win team that hadn't had a winning record in 13 years and won 11 games in his first season and 13 in his second. That's a huge, swift turnaround.

He's in his second year so he's 0-1 in the playoffs after one appearance, with his second playoff game still to come.

Regarding Stefanski: his ability to stick with the team through several different coaching staffs is significant but I just don't see anything on his resumé that stands out and says "this is the guy to hire for this very important role". Maybe he'll make a great OC or HC but right now, I can't tell if he's gold or fool's gold and the job he did as interim OC didn't exactly blow me away. I'm just a little baffled by the buzz surrounding him.

Mothman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:57 am

PurpleMustReign wrote: ↑Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:45 pm He's been praised by whoever he's coached. I would be ok with him being made the full time OC. I think the fact that he's survived as many coaches as he has speaks volumes especially nowadays.
It annoys me that teams want the next Sean mcvay because he really hasn't done anything yet. He's clearly improved a team that struggled for a ong time but he's still 0-1 in the playoffs and is in his third year. Even Zimmer had early success.

Not to that degree that, he didn't...

I think McVay has accomplished a lot. He took over a 4 win team that hadn't had a winning record in 13 years and won 11 games in his first season and 13 in his second. That's a huge, swift turnaround.

He's in his second year so he's 0-1 in the playoffs after one appearance, with his second playoff game still to come.

Regarding Stefanski: his ability to stick with the team through several different coaching staffs is significant but I just don't see anything on his resumé that stands out and says "this is the guy to hire for this very important role". Maybe he'll make a great OC or HC but right now, I can't tell if he's gold or fool's gold and the job he did as interim OC didn't exactly blow me away. I'm just a little baffled by the buzz surrounding him.

I feel the same way, Jim. I'm also suspicious of the way names become the flavor of the day in the NFL after JDF. Zimmer needs someone who has had more experience; possibly an ex-coach even.

Mothman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:57 am

PurpleMustReign wrote: ↑Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:45 pm He's been praised by whoever he's coached. I would be ok with him being made the full time OC. I think the fact that he's survived as many coaches as he has speaks volumes especially nowadays.
It annoys me that teams want the next Sean mcvay because he really hasn't done anything yet. He's clearly improved a team that struggled for a ong time but he's still 0-1 in the playoffs and is in his third year. Even Zimmer had early success.

Not to that degree that, he didn't...

I think McVay has accomplished a lot. He took over a 4 win team that hadn't had a winning record in 13 years and won 11 games in his first season and 13 in his second. That's a huge, swift turnaround.

He's in his second year so he's 0-1 in the playoffs after one appearance, with his second playoff game still to come.

Regarding Stefanski: his ability to stick with the team through several different coaching staffs is significant but I just don't see anything on his resumé that stands out and says "this is the guy to hire for this very important role". Maybe he'll make a great OC or HC but right now, I can't tell if he's gold or fool's gold and the job he did as interim OC didn't exactly blow me away. I'm just a little baffled by the buzz surrounding him.

I'm not saying McVay isn't a good coach or whatever but at one point Mike Zimmer looked like he was the second coming as well. Fwiw, I think McVay will be a sustained good coach because he sustained success for two seasons, which is something Zimmer has yet to do but I don't want to out the cart before the horse either.

Zimmer's up and down years have pivoted on the OL, OL Cocahing, OC, and Kicking.

2014 - down year, AP child abuse suspension and Zim's first year building his defense
2015 - up year, despite horrible OL play. (Clemmings at RT all season long) Kicking issues cost them in playoffs
2016 - Bridgewater injury before season starts, OL disaster at both tackles, AP injury as well, OC drama, more kicking issues
2017 - up year, OL stayed reasonably healthy and stability at OC, Relatively healthy over most of season
2018 - OC issues again, Interior OL injuries, Sparnano died right before training camp, also kicking issues again


A few obvious themes emerge:
OL injuries are common on this team and have helped derail 2 of the past 5 seasons. (They played through them with AP in 2015) Lots of areas of concern: Coaching up young players, training staff/injuries, talent selection, etc.
OC stability and frankly, selection, has been a real problem. They need to figure this out.
OL Coaching stability has been an issue as well, but for different reasons. The canned Davidson after 2015. After 2017 it looked like they had a solid guy in place with Sparano, but then he died. Now are looking for a new one.
Kicking issues impacted 2015 playoffs, 2016 (cost us 2 games that year), and the 2018 playoffs. (we'd be in if no tie in GB...)

It is worth noting that when the OL and OC wasn't dysfunctional (2017) we had a great season, were an elite team, and beat up on teams with winning records.

It seems to me that Zimmer wants an OC who can run his own show. If that is the case I think they need to pay somebody some big bucks. Maybe Stefanski is that guy? I think Gase might be a better choice. He has been through the HC ringer and has a more established level of experience. FWIW, I think McVay is the exception vs the norm with respect to the "hot young talent" thing. I'd rather see them get Bruce Arians out of the announcer booth and bring his legion of experience to bear on the offense.

I think the OL coaching decision is almost as critical as the OC hire. From there the question is what they do about the interior OL. I expect Remmers to be a cap casualty.

I will be annoyed if they keep Priefer. 5 years of kicking issues should make the decision to move on a no-brainer. It obviously isn't working.

There is no possible way to even judge Stefanski at this point. He was just thrown into the position and had to overcome some major offensive hurdles. With this off season and pre-season to prepare, we'll see what things look like next year if he's given that opportunity.

PurpleMustReign wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:41 amI'm not saying McVay isn't a good coach or whatever but at one point Mike Zimmer looked like he was the second coming as well. Fwiw, I think McVay will be a sustained good coach because he sustained success for two seasons, which is something Zimmer has yet to do but I don't want to out the cart before the horse either.

I understand.

From an ownership perspective, I understand the appeal of finding a "McVay", especially if your team's spent over a decade without a winning record. A coach who can take over and post double-digit wins in his first two years must be immensely valuable. That probably raises the level of enthusiasm among fans significantly and makes more money for the team, not to mention that it clearly makes a championship seem like a realistic possibility. However, you're absolutely right that McVay still has plenty to prove.

Mothman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:32 am

PurpleMustReign wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:41 amI'm not saying McVay isn't a good coach or whatever but at one point Mike Zimmer looked like he was the second coming as well. Fwiw, I think McVay will be a sustained good coach because he sustained success for two seasons, which is something Zimmer has yet to do but I don't want to out the cart before the horse either.

I understand.

From an ownership perspective, I understand the appeal of finding a "McVay", especially if your team's spent over a decade without a winning record. A coach who can take over and post double-digit wins in his first two years must be immensely valuable. That probably raises the level of enthusiasm among fans significantly and makes more money for the team, not to mention that it clearly makes a championship seem like a realistic possibility. However, you're absolutely right that McVay still has plenty to prove.

With all of thst said, at least he gets to the playoffs. It's why Denny Green was my favorite coach in my lifetime. He at least knew how to get teams to the playoffs.

Hue Jackson being considered for OC.

Mothman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:57 am

PurpleMustReign wrote: ↑Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:45 pm He's been praised by whoever he's coached. I would be ok with him being made the full time OC. I think the fact that he's survived as many coaches as he has speaks volumes especially nowadays.
It annoys me that teams want the next Sean mcvay because he really hasn't done anything yet. He's clearly improved a team that struggled for a ong time but he's still 0-1 in the playoffs and is in his third year. Even Zimmer had early success.

Not to that degree that, he didn't...

I think McVay has accomplished a lot. He took over a 4 win team that hadn't had a winning record in 13 years and won 11 games in his first season and 13 in his second. That's a huge, swift turnaround.

He's in his second year so he's 0-1 in the playoffs after one appearance, with his second playoff game still to come.

Regarding Stefanski: his ability to stick with the team through several different coaching staffs is significant but I just don't see anything on his resumé that stands out and says "this is the guy to hire for this very important role". Maybe he'll make a great OC or HC but right now, I can't tell if he's gold or fool's gold and the job he did as interim OC didn't exactly blow me away. I'm just a little baffled by the buzz surrounding him.

I agree. I hope the Vikings dont take the easy way out hiring an OC again. A good OC is even more important to the Vikes then some other teams. Because Zim doesnt really help on the offensive side of the ball. I think he's too stubborn and set in his ways to change that.

Agree with the sentiment that we need an ex-HC as our OC for us to have a functioning offense under Zimmer. Kinda sucks that we have to go that route, but I think it's pretty clear now that Zimmer doesn't know what he's doing with the offense and can't really step in when our OC is in trouble (see JDF). Zimmer needs a guy where he can say - "the offense is all yours, I'll focus on defense and game-day stuff". Unless we're really lucky, the only guys who you can trust leading an entire offense are guys who've already led entire teams.

Hue Jackson
Bill Callahan
Adam Gase
Gary Kubiak

All those guys would fit the bill.

TSonn wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:27 pm Agree with the sentiment that we need an ex-HC as our OC for us to have a functioning offense under Zimmer. Kinda sucks that we have to go that route, but I think it's pretty clear now that Zimmer doesn't know what he's doing with the offense and can't really step in when our OC is in trouble (see JDF). Zimmer needs a guy where he can say - "the offense is all yours, I'll focus on defense and game-day stuff". Unless we're really lucky, the only guys who you can trust leading an entire offense are guys who've already led entire teams.

Hue Jackson
Bill Callahan
Adam Gase
Gary Kubiak

All those guys would fit the bill.

Good post. I see that Hue Jackson is being interviewed.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/1/2/ ... oordinator

Texas Vike wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:56 pmGood post. I see that Hue Jackson is being interviewed.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/1/2/ ... oordinator

That figures...

I assume the plan is to make the Vikings as much like those ultra-successful Bengals teams as possible.

Mothman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:05 pm

Texas Vike wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:56 pmGood post. I see that Hue Jackson is being interviewed.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/1/2/ ... oordinator

That figures...

I assume the plan is to make the Vikings as much like those ultra-successful Bengals teams as possible.

Seems like the AFC team that we most closely resemble. Perennially decent, but never a real contender.

Texas Vike wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:08 pmSeems like the AFC team that we most closely resemble. Perennially decent, but never a real contender.

That's an all-too-familiar spot for the Vikes. It's better than being a bottom-feeder but it would be nice to get a taste of "the good life".

Maybe Jackson would be the right hire. I don't know. Increasingly, I worry that the Vikes genuinely want to to win it all but just don't have any idea how to do it. Meanwhile, they are the only NFC team other than the Lions who haven't been to a Super Bowl since the '70s (the Lions have obviously never been to one at all). It's enough to make a fan a just a little bit frustrated.

Mothman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:05 pm

Texas Vike wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:56 pmGood post. I see that Hue Jackson is being interviewed.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/1/2/ ... oordinator

That figures...

I assume the plan is to make the Vikings as much like those ultra-successful Bengals teams as possible.

To be fair, he was only on Cincinnati for a few weeks.