Vikings Message Board.Com

Vikings haven't had QB play 2 back to back 16 game seasons. Ever. I want that to change. If it's Cousins great. If it's someone else. Great. By Friday we will know. Does Cousins break the bank? I don't know. If he's smart he takes less money to be on a winning team. IF it's all about the money..........then I don't really want him.

Pondering Her Percy wrote:

mike2mike wrote:I'd rather give Brees a 1 yr 40 million dollar contract (I'm exaggerating a little), draft a QB and give him a deal the Saints cannot match with a rookie QB contract next year giving us room to sign our guys afterwards. My next choice would be the decision to get 2 bargain basement QBs to set our future up for a very long time in terms of cap room defensive talent and flexibility moving forward, with the ability to fit in a QB or trade for one later on.
I don't really know the numbers to keep any one of our 3 QBs so I will omit the most as a choice for now.
Then Cousins...
After that I suppose I would do what we have to in order to trade way up and get who we like in the draft. The cost would be a little ridiculous, but if the alternative is paying a bunch of money to an unknown QB like AJ McCarron
Don't like the idea of not being able to keep all of our core players into their second contract without much compensation and sign free agents and having wiggle room for if/when things don't go as planned.
The reason we couldn't beat the Eagles was the battle in the trenches so we need to upgrade heavily inside at DT and OL before we make QB the priority IMO, unless the QB is a future hall of fame. Our OL and WRs and defense getting 3 and outs will make a QBs job easy.
So I'm totally on board getting high end DT and OL and going super super cheap at QB for a year and if the experiment of giving 2 $2M QBs and Kyle Sloter doesn't work out at least one of the most will emerge as a quality backup and by then we will have the resources to go and get a QB and have tons of cap flexibility and the pieces around him to succeed, just my outside the box take.

Let me get this straight, you’d rather get “2 bargain QBs” over Cousins. All in hopes that they work out? And that somehow “sets our future up long term”. Sorry but that makes no sense. If anything, it puts us behind. Because again, we would be fishing for QBs. The same thing we’ve been doing for the past how many years and look where it’s gotten us.

So many fans are so worried about “keeping the D together”. That’s on Spielman and Zim. No reason they can’t do it if hey keep drafting well. Not sure why this is so hard to figure out. Zims defensive drafts have been on point ever since he’s been here. Outside of Floyd (who was a stud when he played) he hasn’t missed on many early defensive picks. So if Barr or hunter have to leave because of cap reasons (which there is still a way to get around and the article of how has been posted on here) then we should be drafting behind these guys or drafting when the time comes. Are we really worried that Zim and Spielman are incapable of finding a good LB or DE?? If we draft Arden Key this year and let hunter walk next year, who cares. We already had his replacement.

Again, this D is always going to be good with Zim here. And he’s always going to be grooming new players. So why are we so worried there? It’s like some think if we lose one guy or two at the most this whole D is going to fall apart. 1.) there’s no reason we couldn’t keep those guys even with cousins and 2.) even if we lost one or two guys, I trust Zim to cover himself there.

I’m not worried at all. Sign cousins. Enough with the “let’s keep signing mediocre QBs just so we can save all our money for a rainy day”. It’s gotten us nowhere. Time for a change. And with flip now here, Cousins is even more appealing

"So many fans are so worried about “keeping the D together”. That’s on Spielman and Zim. No reason they can’t do it if hey keep drafting well. Not sure why this is so hard to figure out. Zims defensive drafts have been on point ever since he’s been here. Outside of Floyd (who was a stud when he played) he hasn’t missed on many early defensive picks. So if Barr or hunter have to leave because of cap reasons (which there is still a way to get around and the article of how has been posted on here) then we should be drafting behind these guys or drafting when the time comes. Are we really worried that Zim and Spielman are incapable of finding a good LB or DE?? If we draft Arden Key this year and let hunter walk next year, who cares. We already had his replacement. "

1. We aren't drafting in the high teens anymore ( Barr and Waynes taken w/ top teen picks)
2. Waynes is a missed based on draft position. Unless you think he has played like the 11th best player in any draft. Not arguing this point. I will let you live in Delusionalville, USA if you believe that.
3. There are real-world ramifications for assigning 27million to one player and it should be concerned. This amount large piece of the cap is for multiple years and will affect each year as we move forward. It might be losing Barr this year and Diggs the next. Since football is extremely volatile, Theilan may want a new contract after 2 years (probably not given his personality bu the 4mill a year he is getting is a sin). One devastating injury and a miss in the draft and the defense falls apart.
4. I'm not saying Brees @ 40 million a year makes sense at all
5. I have concerns about Cousins at 27.

YikesVikes wrote:

Pondering Her Percy wrote:

mike2mike wrote:I'd rather give Brees a 1 yr 40 million dollar contract (I'm exaggerating a little), draft a QB and give him a deal the Saints cannot match with a rookie QB contract next year giving us room to sign our guys afterwards. My next choice would be the decision to get 2 bargain basement QBs to set our future up for a very long time in terms of cap room defensive talent and flexibility moving forward, with the ability to fit in a QB or trade for one later on.
I don't really know the numbers to keep any one of our 3 QBs so I will omit the most as a choice for now.
Then Cousins...
After that I suppose I would do what we have to in order to trade way up and get who we like in the draft. The cost would be a little ridiculous, but if the alternative is paying a bunch of money to an unknown QB like AJ McCarron
Don't like the idea of not being able to keep all of our core players into their second contract without much compensation and sign free agents and having wiggle room for if/when things don't go as planned.
The reason we couldn't beat the Eagles was the battle in the trenches so we need to upgrade heavily inside at DT and OL before we make QB the priority IMO, unless the QB is a future hall of fame. Our OL and WRs and defense getting 3 and outs will make a QBs job easy.
So I'm totally on board getting high end DT and OL and going super super cheap at QB for a year and if the experiment of giving 2 $2M QBs and Kyle Sloter doesn't work out at least one of the most will emerge as a quality backup and by then we will have the resources to go and get a QB and have tons of cap flexibility and the pieces around him to succeed, just my outside the box take.

Let me get this straight, you’d rather get “2 bargain QBs” over Cousins. All in hopes that they work out? And that somehow “sets our future up long term”. Sorry but that makes no sense. If anything, it puts us behind. Because again, we would be fishing for QBs. The same thing we’ve been doing for the past how many years and look where it’s gotten us.

So many fans are so worried about “keeping the D together”. That’s on Spielman and Zim. No reason they can’t do it if hey keep drafting well. Not sure why this is so hard to figure out. Zims defensive drafts have been on point ever since he’s been here. Outside of Floyd (who was a stud when he played) he hasn’t missed on many early defensive picks. So if Barr or hunter have to leave because of cap reasons (which there is still a way to get around and the article of how has been posted on here) then we should be drafting behind these guys or drafting when the time comes. Are we really worried that Zim and Spielman are incapable of finding a good LB or DE?? If we draft Arden Key this year and let hunter walk next year, who cares. We already had his replacement.

Again, this D is always going to be good with Zim here. And he’s always going to be grooming new players. So why are we so worried there? It’s like some think if we lose one guy or two at the most this whole D is going to fall apart. 1.) there’s no reason we couldn’t keep those guys even with cousins and 2.) even if we lost one or two guys, I trust Zim to cover himself there.

I’m not worried at all. Sign cousins. Enough with the “let’s keep signing mediocre QBs just so we can save all our money for a rainy day”. It’s gotten us nowhere. Time for a change. And with flip now here, Cousins is even more appealing

"So many fans are so worried about “keeping the D together”. That’s on Spielman and Zim. No reason they can’t do it if hey keep drafting well. Not sure why this is so hard to figure out. Zims defensive drafts have been on point ever since he’s been here. Outside of Floyd (who was a stud when he played) he hasn’t missed on many early defensive picks. So if Barr or hunter have to leave because of cap reasons (which there is still a way to get around and the article of how has been posted on here) then we should be drafting behind these guys or drafting when the time comes. Are we really worried that Zim and Spielman are incapable of finding a good LB or DE?? If we draft Arden Key this year and let hunter walk next year, who cares. We already had his replacement. "

1. We aren't drafting in the high teens anymore ( Barr and Waynes taken w/ top teen picks)
2. Waynes is a missed based on draft position. Unless you think he has played like the 11th best player in any draft. Not arguing this point. I will let you live in Delusionalville, USA if you believe that.
3. There are real-world ramifications for assigning 27million to one player and it should be concerned. This amount large piece of the cap is for multiple years and will affect each year as we move forward. It might be losing Barr this year and Diggs the next. Since football is extremely volatile, Theilan may want a new contract after 2 years (probably not given his personality bu the 4mill a year he is getting is a sin). One devastating injury and a miss in the draft and the defense falls apart.
4. I'm not saying Brees @ 40 million a year makes sense at all
5. I have concerns about Cousins at 27.

I'm done with your drivel. All you've done is argue with every member of the board.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

PurpleMustReign wrote: I'm done with your drivel. All you've done is argue with every member of the board.

So agree when I don't. All this while you are posting in a thread I posted.
There is a block function and you can choose not to post in my topic.
Why did you take this so personally?
1. Person A makes a statement
2. Person B responds to them
3. I respond to person B
4. You get upset????
Man, go post about something else please!

I don’t have a problem with us signing Cousins.
The #1 reason the offense stalled in the playoffs was pressure on the QB. I do think Keenum is better under pressure than Cousins.
So we will need to still improve the OL if we want to go further this upcoming season.

halfgiz wrote:I don’t have a problem with us signing Cousins.
The #1 reason the offense stalled in the playoffs was pressure on the QB. I do think Keenum is better under pressure than Cousins.
So we will need to still improve the OL if we want to go further this upcoming season.

I think you are correct with that assessment. Both Qbs are not good under pressure typically. Kennum performed admirably vs. the Blitz stats but that is not always indicative of pressure. I really hope that the additional scoring potential Cousins brings, outweighs his untimely INTs. I really think that this team could do very well if the offense can feed of the defense's typically stringent nature early in games and allow them to simply rush the passer and create choas the rest of the game instead of the offense keeping the other guys in it by kicking FG or wasting opportunities.

YikesVikes wrote:

halfgiz wrote:I don’t have a problem with us signing Cousins.
The #1 reason the offense stalled in the playoffs was pressure on the QB. I do think Keenum is better under pressure than Cousins.
So we will need to still improve the OL if we want to go further this upcoming season.

I think you are correct with that assessment. Both Qbs are not good under pressure typically. Kennum performed admirably vs. the Blitz stats but that is not always indicative of pressure. I really hope that the additional scoring potential Cousins brings, outweighs his untimely INTs. I really think that this team could do very well if the offense can feed of the defense's typically stringent nature early in games and allow them to simply rush the passer and create choas the rest of the game instead of the offense keeping the other guys in it by kicking FG or wasting opportunities.

He not only throws INTS, he bad under pressure period. And he fumbles a lot. He kind of a turn over machine. And yet doesnt have the wins to support him, like Favre did with all his INTs. I hate saying Favre did anything good. It hurts my stomach.

PurpleKoolaid wrote:

YikesVikes wrote:

halfgiz wrote:I don’t have a problem with us signing Cousins.
The #1 reason the offense stalled in the playoffs was pressure on the QB. I do think Keenum is better under pressure than Cousins.
So we will need to still improve the OL if we want to go further this upcoming season.

I think you are correct with that assessment. Both Qbs are not good under pressure typically. Kennum performed admirably vs. the Blitz stats but that is not always indicative of pressure. I really hope that the additional scoring potential Cousins brings, outweighs his untimely INTs. I really think that this team could do very well if the offense can feed of the defense's typically stringent nature early in games and allow them to simply rush the passer and create choas the rest of the game instead of the offense keeping the other guys in it by kicking FG or wasting opportunities.

He not only throws INTS, he bad under pressure period. And he fumbles a lot. He kind of a turn over machine. And yet doesnt have the wins to support him, like Favre did with all his INTs. I hate saying Favre did anything good. It hurts my stomach.

Yeah let’s keep bringing up that record. Only explained that 10 times at this point

YikesVikes wrote:
1. We aren't drafting in the high teens anymore ( Barr and Waynes taken w/ top teen picks)
2. Waynes is a missed based on draft position. Unless you think he has played like the 11th best player in any draft. Not arguing this point. I will let you live in Delusionalville, USA if you believe that.
3. There are real-world ramifications for assigning 27million to one player and it should be concerned. This amount large piece of the cap is for multiple years and will affect each year as we move forward. It might be losing Barr this year and Diggs the next. Since football is extremely volatile, Theilan may want a new contract after 2 years (probably not given his personality bu the 4mill a year he is getting is a sin). One devastating injury and a miss in the draft and the defense falls apart.
4. I'm not saying Brees @ 40 million a year makes sense at all
5. I have concerns about Cousins at 27.

Your arrogance is really starting to show. You get locked out of the Waynes thread and then you try to bring it back up here. Usually when nobody on here agrees with you regarding a player, it's usually a tell that you're NOT a good evaluator of talent. Common sense.

Regarding #1.) what sense does "not drafting in the teens anymore"?? We had no first round pick last year, didn't make our first pick until 9th in the 2nd round and still landed Dalvin Cook and then Pat Elflein in the 3rd. If you continue to draft well like they have, this shouldn't be a worry. Again, when was the last time Mike Zimmer had a "bad" defense anywhere he's been? I can tell you its been a long time.

2.) Not addressing this joke of an argument anymore

3.) With what we have in cap room coming up, there should be no reason we lose both Diggs and Barr. No less, there are cut candidates coming up like Robison, Wright, Murray, Sendejo, whatever happens with Floyd, maybe even Rudy by 2019. Spielman and Zim plan two years ahead when it comes to cap space. You think if they are throwing Cousins a deal, they probably know what they're doing? I would say so. If they don't see it as an issue, then I would say we are fine.

4.) Brees at 40? No. I really don't want him. I want stability at the position. Not a 1-2 year window like we had with Favre.

5.) I have zero concerns with Cousins at $27.


Maybe if you pull back on the arrogance, people would actually take your posts seriously. I can already tell a lot of fans don't. Especially when you try and say you're some great evaluator of talent when nobody agrees with you regarding your opinion. That's never a good sign. If you had a couple people backing you, then it's probably a reasonable argument. When you have none, you're beat. And you're just annoying people at this point

Zulgad is saying Cousins isn't making anymore visits. Sounds like a decision may be made but we won't know for sure until Wednesday.

S197 wrote:Zulgad is saying Cousins isn't making anymore visits. Sounds like a decision may be made but we won't know for sure until Wednesday.

Interesting, I just heard on one of those stupid internet sports shows (they do seem to break some stories every once in a while, but its mainly rumors, and something to spend a little more time on NFL related things lol) that we can hear by Monday, but the official paperwork wouldnt be done till Wednesday. I would lean towards Wen too. This would be one of the biggest moves since ive been watching the Vikes because he would most likely be the highest paid Vikings in history. Which should both excite and scare you, because we will be watching the cap closely, no matter how smart Zim and Rick are.

It is kind of funny, I was one of the last on the Case bandwagon, but now I wouldnt be upset, as long as his price wasnt unreasonable, if he was our QB for years to come. I love the players that get better the more they play. Waynes is another example. Started out rough, and now i have little worries when the ball is thrown his way, and happy when they run at him.

If it would turn out to be Teddy or Bradford had been resigned, I think that would seal the doom for Zim or Rick. Ad the Vikings. Unless we could get Teddy as the backup.

Pondering Her Percy wrote:

YikesVikes wrote:
1. We aren't drafting in the high teens anymore ( Barr and Waynes taken w/ top teen picks)
2. Waynes is a missed based on draft position. Unless you think he has played like the 11th best player in any draft. Not arguing this point. I will let you live in Delusionalville, USA if you believe that.
3. There are real-world ramifications for assigning 27million to one player and it should be concerned. This amount large piece of the cap is for multiple years and will affect each year as we move forward. It might be losing Barr this year and Diggs the next. Since football is extremely volatile, Theilan may want a new contract after 2 years (probably not given his personality bu the 4mill a year he is getting is a sin). One devastating injury and a miss in the draft and the defense falls apart.
4. I'm not saying Brees @ 40 million a year makes sense at all
5. I have concerns about Cousins at 27.

Your arrogance is really starting to show. You get locked out of the Waynes thread and then you try to bring it back up here. Usually when nobody on here agrees with you regarding a player, it's usually a tell that you're NOT a good evaluator of talent. Common sense.

Regarding #1.) what sense does "not drafting in the teens anymore"?? We had no first round pick last year, didn't make our first pick until 9th in the 2nd round and still landed Dalvin Cook and then Pat Elflein in the 3rd. If you continue to draft well like they have, this shouldn't be a worry. Again, when was the last time Mike Zimmer had a "bad" defense anywhere he's been? I can tell you its been a long time.

2.) Not addressing this joke of an argument anymore

3.) With what we have in cap room coming up, there should be no reason we lose both Diggs and Barr. No less, there are cut candidates coming up like Robison, Wright, Murray, Sendejo, whatever happens with Floyd, maybe even Rudy by 2019. Spielman and Zim plan two years ahead when it comes to cap space. You think if they are throwing Cousins a deal, they probably know what they're doing? I would say so. If they don't see it as an issue, then I would say we are fine.

4.) Brees at 40? No. I really don't want him. I want stability at the position. Not a 1-2 year window like we had with Favre.

5.) I have zero concerns with Cousins at $27.


Maybe if you pull back on the arrogance, people would actually take your posts seriously. I can already tell a lot of fans don't. Especially when you try and say you're some great evaluator of talent when nobody agrees with you regarding your opinion. That's never a good sign. If you had a couple people backing you, then it's probably a reasonable argument. When you have none, you're beat. And you're just annoying people at this point

So the guy comes into the thread and insults my evaluation of talent but because I tell him I think I'm better at evaluating talent than he is, I am arrogant?

I don't really care who cares to take my posts seriously. I addressed something in your post that I felt was wrong and I will continue to do so when I disagree with a point that has been made. The bottom line is I'm having a discussion and you and your fan club feel the need to talk about everything else but so accurate points that I'm making. But continue....

S197 wrote:Zulgad is saying Cousins isn't making anymore visits. Sounds like a decision may be made but we won't know for sure until Wednesday.

I think his refusal to take visits could potentially be dangerous for us if he doesn't need signed with us. It could be innocent or it could point to us tampering. I also expect to hear a lot of reports about gun deals before Wednesday.

YikesVikes wrote:

S197 wrote:Zulgad is saying Cousins isn't making anymore visits. Sounds like a decision may be made but we won't know for sure until Wednesday.

I think his refusal to take visits could potentially be dangerous for us if he doesn't need signed with us. It could be innocent or it could point to us tampering. I also expect to hear a lot of reports about gun deals before Wednesday.

gun details?

Pondering Her Percy wrote:

mike2mike wrote:I'd rather give Brees a 1 yr 40 million dollar contract (I'm exaggerating a little), draft a QB and give him a deal the Saints cannot match with a rookie QB contract next year giving us room to sign our guys afterwards. My next choice would be the decision to get 2 bargain basement QBs to set our future up for a very long time in terms of cap room defensive talent and flexibility moving forward, with the ability to fit in a QB or trade for one later on.
I don't really know the numbers to keep any one of our 3 QBs so I will omit the most as a choice for now.
Then Cousins...
After that I suppose I would do what we have to in order to trade way up and get who we like in the draft. The cost would be a little ridiculous, but if the alternative is paying a bunch of money to an unknown QB like AJ McCarron
Don't like the idea of not being able to keep all of our core players into their second contract without much compensation and sign free agents and having wiggle room for if/when things don't go as planned.
The reason we couldn't beat the Eagles was the battle in the trenches so we need to upgrade heavily inside at DT and OL before we make QB the priority IMO, unless the QB is a future hall of fame. Our OL and WRs and defense getting 3 and outs will make a QBs job easy.
So I'm totally on board getting high end DT and OL and going super super cheap at QB for a year and if the experiment of giving 2 $2M QBs and Kyle Sloter doesn't work out at least one of the most will emerge as a quality backup and by then we will have the resources to go and get a QB and have tons of cap flexibility and the pieces around him to succeed, just my outside the box take.

Let me get this straight, you’d rather get “2 bargain QBs” over Cousins. All in hopes that they work out? And that somehow “sets our future up long term”. Sorry but that makes no sense. If anything, it puts us behind. Because again, we would be fishing for QBs. The same thing we’ve been doing for the past how many years and look where it’s gotten us.

So many fans are so worried about “keeping the D together”. That’s on Spielman and Zim. No reason they can’t do it if hey keep drafting well. Not sure why this is so hard to figure out. Zims defensive drafts have been on point ever since he’s been here. Outside of Floyd (who was a stud when he played) he hasn’t missed on many early defensive picks. So if Barr or hunter have to leave because of cap reasons (which there is still a way to get around and the article of how has been posted on here) then we should be drafting behind these guys or drafting when the time comes. Are we really worried that Zim and Spielman are incapable of finding a good LB or DE?? If we draft Arden Key this year and let hunter walk next year, who cares. We already had his replacement.

Again, this D is always going to be good with Zim here. And he’s always going to be grooming new players. So why are we so worried there? It’s like some think if we lose one guy or two at the most this whole D is going to fall apart. 1.) there’s no reason we couldn’t keep those guys even with cousins and 2.) even if we lost one or two guys, I trust Zim to cover himself there.

I’m not worried at all. Sign cousins. Enough with the “let’s keep signing mediocre QBs just so we can save all our money for a rainy day”. It’s gotten us nowhere. Time for a change. And with flip now here, Cousins is even more appealing

Exactly, let's not keep signing mediocre QBs to way too much money.

We lost the chance to go to the Super Bowl because we overpaid for Bradford in terms of draft choices and salary cap allowing the Eagles tons of cap room to utilize that salary cap while depriving us of the salary cap and using draft choices while depriving us of those draft choices. The Eagles had numerous free agent signings that composed their team.

Watch Bradford week 1 vs the Saints. He looks like an All Pro. Of course he couldn't stay healthy and he isn't a good bet to stay healthy moving forward... but we (the front office of the Vikings) thought he would end our QB problems as if QB is the solution to our problems rather than the cause of our problems.

We spent a first rounder on Ponder, several draft picks trading for the Brooks Bollinger and Sage Rosenthals of the world, a first rounder on Teddy, cap room on Favre and McNabb and Bradford and an early pick on Tavarius Jackson.
This is just a continuation of short sightedness making QB out to be something it's not. It is just another's position, not the savior to all other problems... ironically those problems are largely caused by depriving ourselves of resources to improve elsewhere because we made QB such a high priority. Meanwhile, the Packers considered QB an afterthought when they landed Rodgers. the Patriots didn't even need a QB when they drafted Brady, nor did they care if a 5th round pick busted. Same thing with Seahawks and Russel Wilson. Yet the Browns have gone QB like every other year for decades. It is foolish to force the issue at QB unless we are clearly a QB away from a Lombardi. We are a very good team, and we MAY be a QB away, but most likely we need interior OL and interior DL and we better have depth because we were fortunate to stay relatively healthy outside of QB and RB. Brees may be good enough to overcome that. Cousins isn't.

Only outliers win it all. 2 bargain basement QB give us a shot at outlier QBs in terms of value while leveraging the cap room to actually find players that are among the best at their position like Andrew Norwell or Nate Soldier on the OL. We could also sign Sheldon Richardson or someone of that's caliber on the DL and keep Hunter, Barr and Kendricks who are in or will be in the conversation. More than likely it is buying cap room and an eventual quality backup for multiple years with starting experience. THEN we can come back in 2019 and trade for a QB if that is all that is missing and still continue to add free agents year after year as needed.

Meanwhile, Carson Wentz is on a rookie contract and although they gave up a lot to get them, they got back a lot from the Bradford trade and the pending Nick Foles trade that may happen depending on the recovery of Wentz.
Meanwhile, Tom Brady is getting paid as the 17th richest QB contract in the league. IF he continues to play at a high level (he may not) then NO ONE can compete with that, doing things conventionally, certainly not teams that tie up $30M to a mediocre (by comparison) QB.
But doing things unconventionally we can buy cap room for the future by paying more up front to the players we keep and going without a high ticket QB

I would much rather have a dynasty than a window and Cousins is a shiny new toy that looks good now and it may work out for awhile, but as players fading out due to age and injuries pile up and in a year or two or three that window will be gone and we willl be in cap hell on top of having an aging team. No thanks. Drafting well only takes us so far. One big signing in 3 years only takes us so far. Everyone loved the Jennings signing when we made it too... but things don't work out as expected and we had better have a margin for error in the form of smart spending or we will be a bad team in only a few years.