Vikings Message Board.Com

Mothman wrote: All you did was complain more! You still didn't answer the question, which was "Which teams in your mind have a competent GM?"

Belichick, Ravens, Denver...

Purplekoolaid knows whats up and if Teddy turns out to be a bust, I'd say that's the end of the road for Spielman for me.

Mothman wrote: All you did was complain more! You still didn't answer the question, which was "Which teams in your mind have a competent GM?"

I would say teams that are consistently competitive like the Pats, Pack, Steelers, Ravens, to name a few. Draft well consistently and don't do anything too crazy in free agency.

VikingPaul73 wrote: I would say teams that are consistently competitive like the Pats, Pack, Steelers, Ravens, to name a few. Draft well consistently and don't do anything too crazy in free agency.

It's been analyzed numerous times, but I think it should be reiterated, the Pack and Patriots haven't done anything vastly superior to the Vikings in the personnel department other than fall #### backwards into an elite QB.

saint33 wrote:
It's been analyzed numerous times, but I think it should be reiterated, the Pack and Patriots haven't done anything vastly superior to the Vikings in the personnel department other than fall #### backwards into an elite QB.

Exactly. The Patriots have actually been pretty poor drafting as of late. I would think their GM has enough common sense to get them a legitimate #1 WR for Brady and he's yet to do that since Moss.

I have previously analyzed Seattle's past drafts and they are far from promising.

The Packers 1st round picks in 2012 and 2013 were Nick Perry and Datone Jones. Neither has done a thing for them and are below average players right now. Aaron Rodgers is what makes that team.

I can tell you right now, guys like Randall Cobb would be average at best on poor QB teams. He makes WR's. Just like Manning made Decker, Demaryius Thomas, Julius Thomas, Brandon Stokely back in the day, etc. Favre made Sidney Rice. Our biggest downfall is that we haven't had a QB like that outside of Favre. If you put Aaron Rodgers, Manning, Brees, etc on this team, we are a contender no doubt.

the Pack and Patriots haven't done anything vastly superior to the Vikings in the personnel department other than fall #### backwards into an elite QB.

The pack "fell" into Rodgers? They had Favre, didn't know for sure when he was retiring. Took a flyer on a guy. They hardly "fell" into him. Along with a number of other players. They don't throw a fat check at Greg Jennings. They don't over pay average players coming off rookie deals just hoping they improve from where they were.

Ricky boy has failed miserably, repeatedly. In Miami when he was given the control and traded for Jay Feeley. And then with Ponder. And not looking too hot with Pondwater. How people think a team with the record this team has had since he took over shouldn't look throw some blame his way. He took over, we were told three years to get his guys in here. Well here they are. Does anyone really see a ton of talent ready to explode into the playoffs? We're going to finish 4th in the division again, his 4th real with real control. Are we going to let another coaching staff hang for Spielman's incompetence?

And yeah, I think incompetent owners that now have two lost lawsuits, a number of losing seasons, and repeated screw ups with coach hires should share some of the blame. They have zero business making football decisions. The best thing that could have happened was Bill Parcells accepting that deal Zygi offered. We have bad ownership, and a bad General Manager, and people wonder why we are where we are.

A competent GM builds around his players. they hire coaches that can utilize the talented athletes.
I am in no way a Spielman fan, but he has built this offense around AD. He did that ! Some hits and some misses.
My issue is that he has failed to prepare for the future.
My opinion is that Norv Turner is the wrong OC for us. Realistically how many years do we have left in a superstar named Peterson ? Turner is perfect for the running game, but not much tread left on AD.
The great GM can build an offense for an offensive coach. Can supply great defensive personnel for the DC.
Finding guys that fit your schemes etc. BUT...... You have to stick with the coach!
We have a running OL but without AD we don't have that feature back.
Bridgewater is a play action QB, but no real threat in backfield. So current WR corps is okay when AD is there, but not tier 1 WR guys without AD.

saint33 wrote: It's been analyzed numerous times, but I think it should be reiterated, the Pack and Patriots haven't done anything vastly superior to the Vikings in the personnel department other than fall #### backwards into an elite QB.

Definitely. We saw how amazing the Packers' GM was last year when Rodgers was out. We have more talent than the Packers do outside of the QB position. They just happen to be really, really lucky.

Pats: Top five QB of all time
Steelers: Hall of Fame QB, yet still went 8-8 last year

Ravens: Here's an interesting one. Let's look at the last three years of drafts:
2012:
2-Courtney Upshaw - Mediocre at best
2-Kelechi Osemele - A starter
3-Bernard Pierce - Okay
4-Gino Gradkowski - Doesn't play but still on the team
4-Christian Thompson - Not in the league
5-Asa Jackson - Depth CB, still on team
6-Tommy Streeter - Not on team
7-Deangelo Tyson - Backup, 22 career tackles, still on team

2013:
1-Matt Elam - Bust. QBs complete 76% of passes, 21 yards per completion. 2nd worst in league.
2-Arthur Brown - Bust. 14 career tackles. A "healthy scratch" as they say in the business.
3-Brandon Williams - Depth player
4-John Simon - No longer on team
4-Kyle Juszczyk - Starting FB. Not sure how to evaluate him, but let's assume he's decent since he's starting
5-Ricky Wagner - starter, great pick
6-Kapron Lewis-Moore - 0 games played
6-Ryan Jenson - 0 games played
7-Aaron MAllette - Not in league
7-Marc Anthony - Not in league

2014:
1-CJ Mosley - Great Pick, playing really well
2-Timmy Jernigan - 11 tackles, no starts
3-Terrance Brooks - Depth Safety, no starts
3-Crockette Gilmore - 67 yards receiving
4-Brent Urban - Hasn't even played a single game
4-Lorenzo Taliaferro - Decent rotational RB
5-John Urshel - on team, played in a few games
6-Keith Wenning - practice squad QB
7-Michael Campanaro - 85 yards receiving


Look how much better we've drafted than the Raven in the last three years.

But they know how to draft qbs you say? In Ozzie Newsome's first draft he selected their QB of the future, Kyle Boller.

Orion wrote: Belichick, Ravens, Denver...

Purplekoolaid knows whats up and if Teddy turns out to be a bust, I'd say that's the end of the road for Spielman for me.

"Purplekoolaid knows whats up and if Teddy turns out to be a bust, I'd say that's the end of the road for Spielman for me"
That is hillarious You do know that he begged and pleaded on this board to DRAFT TEDDY, DRAFT TEDDY..... SO RICKY DRAFTS TEDDY AND IF HE IS A "BUST" GUESS WHO WILL GET CALLED OUT FOR DRAFTING TEDDY

Let's take this in another direction:

Let's say Spielman's out. He's gone, fired, and the Wilfs are gone too. You're the Vikings new owner. If you have a GM in mind, go ahead and name your guy. If not, no problem, we're fans and we aren't expected to know who would make the best hire. Here are the real questions: how long do you give your new GM to field a winner? how long to field a consistent winner?

Spielman's an odd case because he was hired as Personnel Director and spent years as part of an evolving management structure that finally ended in a more traditional management structure. As personnel director, he's been with the Vikings since May of 2006. He's been the General Manager since 2012 This is his third year as the actual GM and his first with the only head coach he chose and hired.

How much control does a GM need to successfully implement his vision for the team? How much time does he need to do that?

Except those teams made up for it by drafting an elite QB like Brady or Rodgers or even a franchise guy like Flacco.


Spielman has failed thus far and my patience is quickly running out. Maybe one more shot at a QB after Teddy (if he becomes a bust) but that's it.

Orion wrote:Except those teams made up for it by drafting an elite QB like Brady or Rodgers or even a franchise guy like Flacco.


Spielman has failed thus far and my patience is quickly running out. Maybe one more shot at a QB after Teddy (if he becomes a bust) but that's it.

The Pats didn't draft an elite QB they drafted a 6th rounder that became an elite QB and please don't say they saw his talent or they would have drafted him higher.

Suppose Seahawks got a ring just lucking on a QB?
Every other team is just lucky. We're doing everything right but just not working out. Not lucky? Always an excuse here or there. Biggest problem? Owners more interested in money than anything else.

Mothman wrote:Let's take this in another direction:

Let's say Spielman's out. He's gone, fired, and the Wilfs are gone too. You're the Vikings new owner. If you have a GM in mind, go ahead and name your guy. If not, no problem, we're fans and we aren't expected to know who would make the best hire. Here are the real questions: how long do you give your new GM to field a winner? how long to field a consistent winner?

Spielman's an odd case because he was hired as Personnel Director and spent years as part of an evolving management structure that finally ended in a more traditional management structure. As personnel director, he's been with the Vikings since May of 2006. He's been the General Manager since 2012 This is his third year as the actual GM and his first with the only head coach he chose and hired.

How much control does a GM need to successfully implement his vision for the team? How much time does he need to do that?

Listen I've tried this same thing a few months back and nobody seems to be able to answer it. They continue to criticize Spielman but can never answer what they would do. I actually had to post it more than once....and still, nobody would answer it. It's easy to point fingers behind a screen, but in reality, they don't know what they should do.

I have compared multiple drafts to our drafts and recently and ours are turning out better than a lot of teams. Maembe just analyzed the Ravens and that was pretty ugly looking as well. But guys sit here and call them legitimate GMs. Those are teams that have solid veterans but will buckle as the years go on after drafting like that.

Teams this young don't just succeed right off the bat with a new coaching staff. Look at the Rams and Jaguars. They have good players for the future, but struggle to make an impact now. Same goes for us.

maembe wrote:
Definitely. We saw how amazing the Packers' GM was last year when Rodgers was out. We have more talent than the Packers do outside of the QB position. They just happen to be really, really lucky.

Pats: Top five QB of all time
Steelers: Hall of Fame QB, yet still went 8-8 last year

Ravens: Here's an interesting one. Let's look at the last three years of drafts:
2012:
2-Courtney Upshaw - Mediocre at best
2-Kelechi Osemele - A starter
3-Bernard Pierce - Okay
4-Gino Gradkowski - Doesn't play but still on the team
4-Christian Thompson - Not in the league
5-Asa Jackson - Depth CB, still on team
6-Tommy Streeter - Not on team
7-Deangelo Tyson - Backup, 22 career tackles, still on team

2013:
1-Matt Elam - Bust. QBs complete 76% of passes, 21 yards per completion. 2nd worst in league.
2-Arthur Brown - Bust. 14 career tackles. A "healthy scratch" as they say in the business.
3-Brandon Williams - Depth player
4-John Simon - No longer on team
4-Kyle Juszczyk - Starting FB. Not sure how to evaluate him, but let's assume he's decent since he's starting
5-Ricky Wagner - starter, great pick
6-Kapron Lewis-Moore - 0 games played
6-Ryan Jenson - 0 games played
7-Aaron MAllette - Not in league
7-Marc Anthony - Not in league

2014:
1-CJ Mosley - Great Pick, playing really well
2-Timmy Jernigan - 11 tackles, no starts
3-Terrance Brooks - Depth Safety, no starts
3-Crockette Gilmore - 67 yards receiving
4-Brent Urban - Hasn't even played a single game
4-Lorenzo Taliaferro - Decent rotational RB
5-John Urshel - on team, played in a few games
6-Keith Wenning - practice squad QB
7-Michael Campanaro - 85 yards receiving


Look how much better we've drafted than the Raven in the last three years.

But they know how to draft qbs you say? In Ozzie Newsome's first draft he selected their QB of the future, Kyle Boller.

Yeah that is pretty bad. If this was our recent drafts, fans on here would be calling for Spielmans head. But since the Ravens had established veterans, they can get away with drafts like this. But since it's the Ravens, he must be a good GM.

So your saying GM's value is overstated? Why have them? Or whats your point with the Ravens? You need good team management, from the top down. That's how teams are good, year after year. So your happy with Ricks job? Or think he has the wrong coaching staff? I hope the Wilf's think more logically, before we waste another 3 years and have to clean house, when maybe replacing 1 person in management might be more. practical.