VikingBolt wrote:
I haven't posted here much, but just HAVE to say this:
Did you see who won comeback player of the year? Philip Rivers of the San Diego Chargers.
Hmmm, just so happens this occurs the first year after Norv Turner is gone. Turner started out with a good team, and they went downhill after he became head coach.
And? Norv Turner is not the head coach in Minnesota, he is the offensive coordinator. A position he's been successful in his entire career. There's a reason why he's been hired as the head coach of 3 different teams, despite his relatively poor results in that position. Because his work as a coordinator has continued to put him in the spot light for those positions
saint33 wrote:And? Norv Turner is not the head coach in Minnesota, he is the offensive coordinator. A position he's been successful in his entire career.
If I'm not mistaken, the last time a team went to a Super Bowl with Turner as an OC was the Cowboys more than 20 years ago. He hasn't been back as either a head coach or OC since.
Ack. I quoted and typed a reply, but it didn't post. I got some kind of message about saving as a draft, but can't find that.
Anyway, what I had said was that Turner was being touted as a great coach for QB's , but that proved to not be true.
Eli wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the last time a team went to a Super Bowl with Turner as an OC was the Cowboys more than 20 years ago. He hasn't been back as either a head coach or OC since.
Yes, he was head coach for the Chargers, and dragged them down from a young good team.
Eli wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the last time a team went to a Super Bowl with Turner as an OC was the Cowboys more than 20 years ago. He hasn't been back as either a head coach or OC since.
If the criteria for our OC position was that they must have held that position or one hirer in the Superbowl within the last 20 years, our search would be fairly narrow.
Just because a coordinator is not coaching in the Superbowl, does not mean he isn't successfully doing his job.
saint33 wrote:
And? Norv Turner is not the head coach in Minnesota, he is the offensive coordinator. A position he's been successful in his entire career. There's a reason why he's been hired as the head coach of 3 different teams, despite his relatively poor results in that position. Because his work as a coordinator has continued to put him in the spot light for those positions
I realize he's not head coach. But, as head coach with the Chargers, he spent much time working with Philip in his (Turner's) attempts to cause Philip to improve. At first, all the talk was that he was great working with QB's.
Ah well, just wanted to give a head's up, nobody has to believe me. You will see for yourselves, eventually.
Orion wrote:we are headed to the super bowl within the next 3 years.
We are still far from a playoff team now, let alone a playoff contender.
I guess anything can happen, but if we don't find a true honest to god franchise QB come draft day, we can forget about contending with Rodgers and the Pack for the division.
You do realize that Phillip Rivers had a QB rating over 100 for 3 of Norv's 6 years with SD. You also do realize that AJ Smith let a majority of the talented players on that roster like LaDanian Tomlinson, Michael Turner, Darren Sproles and their #1 WR Vincent Jackson leave. And a solid offensive line was marred by career ending injuries to two pro bowl players, Marcus McNeil and Kris Dielman, whom were replaced by numerous late round draft flops. Combine all those factors, and yes, Phillip Rivers did have a couple of mediocre seasons under Norv as head coach.
So while there were issues with Rivers at that end of Norv's tenure as head coach of the Chargers, he was also very successful in his offense for a number of years while the talent was still available to surround him. And since Norv is neither the Head coach nor the GM of the Vikings, I think it's safe to say that as long as he's provided with the talent to do so, Norv can design a successful offense. As he has a number of times in the past.
Last edited by saint33 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
VikingBolt wrote:BTW, how many games did the Cleveland Browns win this year? Where Turner was for 2013?
Coaching an offense that had two breakout stars in Josh Gordon and Jordan Cameron, despite a constant carousel at QB. Speaking of which, he also managed to get somewhat respectable play out of the amazing talents of Brian Hoyer and Jason Campbell
Last edited by saint33 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
saint33 wrote:
Coaching an offense that had two breakout stars in Josh Gordon and Cameron Jordan, despite a constant carousel at QB. Speaking of which, he also managed to get somewhat respectable play out of the amazing talents of Brian Hoyer and Jason Campbell
It seems as if I'm one of the very few who remembers his stellar days with LT and Rivers, pity.
We already have the HOF RB get a real QB and I think the results could be quite similar.
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
I have to disagree. Priefer has been blessed with good return men and in turn, it makes him look good. I can bet money that you could put Patterson and/or Harvin on any other team and they would be just as good or better in the return game. Harvin showed he could do it in one game this past Sunday. He almost burnt his own team/coach this year when we played them. I've never been a Priefer fan and I'm not sure I ever will. His lack of making adjustments in games is very tiresome to watch. For example....
-Week 2 vs Chi- We allowed 263 return yards!!! We have watched Hester burn us for years now and Priefer was dumb enough to kick to him that entire game including the final seconds that put them in good field position to win the game.
-Week 3 vs Cle- At the time, it was pretty clear that Cleveland was tanking at this point and it was pretty clear that Priefer didn't prepare accordingly. On the 4th and 1, I literally stood up out of my chair and yelled, "THEY ARE GOING TO FAKE IT!!!" What happens? They fake it. Then, we somehow have nobody guarding Cameron, who at the time, was their best offensive player on a field goal. It might have been the easiest touchdown ever scored by a TE. Those are two, bonehead special teams plays that technically cost us that game. That led to 10 points I believe and we lost by 3. It was pretty obvious that when they traded away Richardson...they didn't give a crap about their season. You have to expect fakes and such from a team like that.
Week 11 vs Sea- Granted, I don't know if we could have ever beat them but Jarius Wright scores with 55 seconds left before half. So at the time, we have the momentum. What does Priefer do??? Kick to Percy Harvin with 55 seconds left before half. Yes, Percy Harvin, the guy we use to have, the guy Mike Priefer use to coach, the guy that returned his fair share of kicks for us. We should know better than anyone else what Harvin is capable of back there. Priefer legitimately made us look dumb by kicking to him.
Week 13 vs Chi- Somehow, we were lucky enough to pull this one out. But once again, we decide to kick to Hester at the end of regulation, with the game on the line (tied). Luckily, out defense came up with a big stop and Gould missed the FG. Even the announcers kept saying...."WHY??" Then when we kickoff overtime, he decides to kick it to the corner of the end zone Oh and FWIW, Priefer said in the press conference that the reason he kicked to Hester was because his "ego" got to him. Are you kidding me??? Your "ego"?? The game was on the line. If we were in the playoff hunt and we ended up losing that game (which we should of), I would have personally flew to Minnesota.
....There were MANY times this year, after teams started figuring out how good Patterson was, where they kicked FAR AND AWAY from him on a line drive so it was very difficult for him to return. However, we RARELY do this against guys like Harvin and Hester. I just don't understand it, especially with Walsh's leg. You can't sit there and tell me Walsh couldn't kick a line drive FAR AND AWAY from those guys. I won't ever believe that he can't do that. I've wanted Preifer gone since mid-year but unfortunately we still have him. Harvin and Patterson MADE Mike Priefer, he did NOT make them. So he can thank them for his success in the NFL.
You disagree but have YET to name a coach who is available that is better and can replace Mike Priefer. Ok yes he made a few mistakes, BIG DEAL. It's not like we're getting Devin Hester'd every game. And this talk about players making coaches is laughable. I'm guessing that Cordarelle Patterson and Harvin just run through all 12 people on the field. Have you and all the people who agreed with you ever played football before?
Do coaches like Priefer not help guys block so Patterson AND Harvin can use their speed and elusivness to cut through players and break the big return? Does he not coach players to stop them from blocking in the back? DID HE F***KING NOT HELP JEFF LOCKE HOLD THE DAMN BALL THE CORRECT WAY SO BLAIR WALSH CAN GET GOOD KICKS ON THE FIELD GOALS? Did Blair Walsh not improve in the NFL on FGs like he did in college. In college his FG tries were kinda bad but he had a strong leg. Now Walsh BARELY miss FGs, thanks to Priefer working with him like he does. Locke is a work in progress on punts but he has been working very hard and I've seen some improvement along the way.
If anybody here knows anything about special teams, it is more than just Patterson running the damn ball down the field. It's also about the other 10 guys on the field doing their job to make the workload that much easier for Patterson. How else do young players learn how not clip players or not blocking in the back. Unlike the offense and defense who has position coaches to work on technique. Special team coaches have to do most to all the teaching themselves on kickoffs and punts. And Priefer has done a good job overall with the special teams. I remember a Vikings special teams several years ago who could barely tackle anybody or get anything going on kick/punt returns. Priefer has made this special teams a lot better which shows why he is still on the team.
But please name me a great ST coach available, who can coach better than Priefer, that we need to hire right now?
Last edited by King James on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
Ya I think those who are complaining about Preifer are taking a very narrow view of what his job is, and the results he's gained out of our STs play as a whole.
It's easy to say "oh well he had Patterson and Harvin and Walsh, who couldn't do well with those options?" But that's pretty narrow-minded and kind of "hindsight is 20-20".
First off, Blair Walsh was barely above a 50% kicker while at Georgia. When the Vikings drafted him, the word was that Preifer liked all 3 kickers in the draft that were drafted in that round, including Walsh. To include Walsh with the other two kickers was a bit odd, considering the other two were much more consistent in college. But Preifer apparently saw some significant mechanical flaw in Walsh's routine that he felt he could fix, so the team drafted him. Sure enough, Walsh corrected this mechanical issue and went on to be an all pro kicker in his rookie season, and followed that up with a solid season despite play through injury this year. To me that's a mark of good coaching, taking a talented but inconsistent player and fixing his issues, and maximizing the production and consistency of that player.
Secondly to the return men. As King James points out, there's more to a return game then just having a talented returner. It certainly makes things much easier for the blockers, as they don't have to create as big of holes or hold their blocks as long as if they had a mediocre return man behind them, but the blocking under Priefer has been excellent. On both kick and punt returns might I add. Marcus Sherels has improved pretty steadily as a punt returner under Priefer as well. When he started back there, he appeared to be a pretty average punt returner, along the Greg Camarillo/Bobby Wade mold of "will catch the ball cleanly almost every time and get some positive yards if available, but will be in the middle of the pack in return average and isn't explosive or elusive enough to produce big returns or TDs". He's now one of the best in the league in punt return average and has had numerous big returns the past couple years, including 2 TDs.
As far as Percy goes, I understand there isn't all that much credit that can be given to Priefer for his success. But I don't see why Priefer doesn't at least deserve some credit for Patterson this year. Let me put it this way, one of the biggest criticisms of the staff this year was their decision to withhold touches from Patterson throughout the early portion of the season. But there was one coach who not only bucked that trend, but gave the rookie more trust than most established elite kick returners get. Patterson was given the full green light on kick returns this entire year, meaning that no matter where Patterson caught the ball (like say 9+ yards deep in the endzone) he was allowed to take the ball out for an attempt. It's easy to say that Patterson is so talented, how could you not give him this confidence, but as I said, such trust in a returner is rare anywhere in the league, let alone with a rookie. A rookie who also happened to be held back in other aspects of the game despite his talent. It's certainly not the sole reason I think highly of Priefer as a coach, but I feel he deserves at least some credit for recognizing Patterson's talent early and trusting the kid to do what he does.
Lastly I come to the coverage team, which is really the only argument I could see against Priefer, as they took a decent step backwards this year after being one of the best under Priefer last year. And this correlates to the "kicking to Hester/Jones/Harvin" argument. Honestly, unlike most people, I have no issues with kicking the ball to these players. I've witnessed them first hand on a number of occasions have huge returns and change games. But I've also seen multiple games from Harvin or Patterson, or any other great returner for that matter, where the opposition's coverage team completely shut them down. And not by kicking the ball away from them. We saw all season what kicking the ball away from Patterson did for our offense, even though it kept the ball out of his hands, it also resulted in our starting field position to be consistently great. That's my problem with kicking it away from these types of guys, you still hurt your team because the opposition's offense has a much shorter field to drive. Our kick coverage needs to be better in those instances. Something it was just a season ago.
Now while I say that is the one spot I would criticize Priefer, I think it also needs to be kept in mind that injuries played a factor in our decline in kick off coverage as well. Since Priefer has joined the team, a number of players have stood out on special teams. Guys like Larry Dean, Marvin Mitchell, Jamarca Sanford and Andrew Sendejo have all been standouts on special teams coverage. But due to injuries on defense, Sanford was hurt a large part of the season, Sendejo was forced into a starting role taking away from his special teams snaps and wearing him out when he was in there and Marvin Mitchell was also forced into a bigger role once Bishop was out for the season. Injuries should never excuse poor play though, so I still feel Priefer deserves some of the blame for this, and there is an argument to made that due to the injuries, we may have been better suited to kick the ball away from the better returners because we could not trust our coverage team the way we would if they were healthy and limited to their role on STs.
Anyways, I hardly think that's enough to out weigh all the positive things he's done with this team since coming here to warrant his firing. However, with all this said, Priefer's job should still rightfully be on line depending on the how the Kluwe investigation/law suits turn out. But that's something I don't feel like getting into anymore than I have discussed here, we can just wait and find out the truth once it surfaces.
Oh and before someone (not going to name any names) points out in a snarky fashion that we used draft picks on our kicker and punter, which means they should be expected to be great, I'll just point out a few statistics.
In the past 5 years 20 specialists (kickers or punters) have been drafted. In the past 10 years 44 specialists have been drafted. In that same time frame, 20 specialist have been drafted in the 5th round or higher, including four in the 3rd round and even one in the 2nd round. So it would be nice if people stopped acting like drafting a kicker or punter is a waste of a pick and is some sort of rare decision that should only be made on sure fire elite specialists.
Oh and FWIW, Priefer said in the press conference that the reason he kicked to Hester was because his "ego" got to him. Are you kidding me??? Your "ego"?? The game was on the line. If we were in the playoff hunt and we ended up losing that game (which we should of), I would have personally flew to Minnesota. 
And this talk about players making coaches is laughable. I'm guessing that Cordarelle Patterson and Harvin just run through all 12 people on the field. Have you and all the people who agreed with you ever played football before?