Vikings Message Board.Com

Pondering Her Percy wrote:I imagine he would stay. He would be crazy not to. He still has a decent shot to start going into next year and I'm guessing he would want to play for Norv Turner and Zimmer. If he left, his market wouldn't be anything crazy and only could start for a limited amount of teams. Not just because I am a Vikings fan but I would much rather play for Minnesota than Jacksonville, Cleveland, or Oakland.

Cleveland could be a damn good team with a couple additions, but they will probably draft Manziel, and have hoyer. So I still agree that they wouldn't be an option for him. Although there is the uncertainty, if the Vikings draft a young QB, that Cassel could be shuffled out sometime during the season. I don't know if QBs relish the chance to stay and mentor a new QB, or hate it. But that elephant would be in the room for him. I think we all hope against hope tho, just to avoid any chance Ponder sees the field.

I think there is a good chance that Zimmer and Turner have talked to Cassel, and each has some idea of the others plans.

If they did draft Manziel, what do you think of Hoyer? There is always untapped talent in the NFL, I would leave no stone unturned. I would also look to trade for Matt Barkley, like add a guy like those 2, as well as draft one.

I still wouldn’t mind seeing Freeman here next season, but I'm sure he wants to start outright.

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PurpleMustReign wrote:I still wouldn’t mind seeing Freeman here next season, but I'm sure he wants to start outright.

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Freeman is a waste of time imo, he once had the knack for winning, but he lost something somewhere. What we saw in his one start was not a product of not knowing the offense, he wasn't even close with his passes.

King James wrote:If he doesn't stay, we still have Christian Ponder.

That is NOT even funny. There are just some things you don't joke about.

majorm wrote: That is NOT even funny. There are just some things you don't joke about.

majorm wrote: That is NOT even funny. There are just some things you don't joke about.

But what if it wasn't Ponder that was the problem but the coaching?

At this point, I just don't care. Cassel, Ponder, Freeman... throw them in a hat. I think the chances of the team winning are about the same with any of them (maybe less with freeman if he plays like he did last year) and none of them represent a satisfying answer to the question: "who is the Vikings starting quarterback?". As far as I can tell, the best thing Cassel seems to have going for him among most fans is that he's not Ponder. He had a few good games last season and a few I'd rather forget. If he's back, that's fine but I'm really a LOT more interested in who the new option(s) will be at QB than in which of the QBs from last season will be on the roster when the 2014 season kicks off.

I think Cassel's style of play fits into what Turner will want to do with his typical Air Coryell offense. I do not think he is the long term answer at the position, but if they retain him it reduces the urgency to pick a QB in the first round.

Frankly, if anything, this season showed that Defense is still highly relevant in the modern NFL. The two best NFC teams rely on stout defenses and power rushing. In both cases their QBs were in the bottom half of the league statistically. Seattle showed you can win with a dominant defense and a QB that doesn't make huge errors.

Can they get more bang for the buck by going defense heavy? I think so. They still need to address QB, but I'm not sure the 1st round guys are locks to be successful, especially where we are drafting.

Mothman wrote:At this point, I just don't care. Cassel, Ponder, Freeman... throw them in a hat. I think the chances of the team winning are about the same with any of them (maybe less with freeman if he plays like he did last year) and none of them represent a satisfying answer to the question: "who is the Vikings starting quarterback?". As far as I can tell, the best thing Cassel seems to have going for him among most fans is that he's not Ponder. He had a few good games last season and a few I'd rather forget. If he's back, that's fine but I'm really a LOT more interested in who the new option(s) will be at QB than in which of the QBs from last season will be on the roster when the 2014 season kicks off.

You are seriously saying, that you didn't notice that Cassel had a better feel than Ponder for playing the position? WRs getting time to get yards after the catch, as opposed to Ponders late throws that if the receiver caught it he was done at that spot.

PurpleHalo wrote:You are seriously saying, that you didn't notice that Cassel had a better feel than Ponder for playing the position?

If that's what I meant to say, that's what I would have written. I said I think the chances of the team winning are about the same with either of them and I feel that way because even though Cassel has a better feel for the position than Ponder, I don't think he offers much more in the way of consistency or opportunities to win. I realize that might seem counter-intuitive but as I've pointed out elsewhere, 3 of the Vikings 4 lowest point totals last year came with Cassel at QB. When he's as effective as he was against the Eagles, he's better than Ponder has ever been but like Ponder, he's inconsistent and he turns it over too often. Both QBs have ranked among the worst starters in the NFL for several years now, which is why I just don't care which one of them, or if either of them, is on the team next year. I think either is the kind of QB who could come off the bench and help the team win a few games if they play their best football but as I wrote above, neither of them represents a satisfying answer to the question, "who is the Vikings starting quarterback?".

As for Freeman, he's just like the other two. He has bad habits, turns it over too often, he's an inconsistent performer...

They all have upside but at this point, they've all revealed enough downside that I'm indifferent to them being Vikings.

From the NFC North blog at ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_ ... f-business

The first order of business for the Vikings is the 2014 option on quarterback Matt Cassel's contract. That decision will happen in two stages over the next six weeks or so, but the first deadline comes this week. Cassel can void his 2014 contract by Friday. If he doesn't, the Vikings have until the seventh day of the league year in March to decide whether to cut him or pay him a $500,000 roster bonus. He would have a $3.15 million base salary and a $50,000 workout bonus, bringing his total compensation (without incentives) to the same $3.7 million figure he made in 2013.

Mothman wrote:At this point, I just don't care. Cassel, Ponder, Freeman... throw them in a hat. I think the chances of the team winning are about the same with any of them (maybe less with freeman if he plays like he did last year) and none of them represent a satisfying answer to the question: "who is the Vikings starting quarterback?". As far as I can tell, the best thing Cassel seems to have going for him among most fans is that he's not Ponder. He had a few good games last season and a few I'd rather forget. If he's back, that's fine but I'm really a LOT more interested in who the new option(s) will be at QB than in which of the QBs from last season will be on the roster when the 2014 season kicks off.

I find it fascinating how anyone can think that a QB with triple the wins of another (or a third with zero wins) with the same team in the same season has "the same" chance of winning.

And now I suppose you will backpedal now and clarify what you mean by "winning". Let me guess-you meant "winning it all"?

Ok, so you don't like Cassel all that much, I get that. But he absolutely gives us a better chance of winning than Pludder, and has proved that. Freeman also is "not Ponder" (as is Webb) and few are clamoring for his return.

Webbfann wrote:I find it fascinating how anyone can think that a QB with triple the wins of another (or a third with zero wins) with the same team in the same season has "the same" chance of winning.

I don't know what's so fascinating about it. All it takes is a point of view that encompasses more than QB performance as the determining factor in winning and losing games along with a perspective that takes more than a handful of performances into consideration.

... and please note that I said they had "about the same" chance of winning.

And now I suppose you will backpedal now and clarify what you mean by "winning". Let me guess-you meant "winning it all"?

No, I just meant winning games.

Ok, so you don't like Cassel all that much, I get that. But he absolutely gives us a better chance of winning than Pludder, and has proved that.

As I've already said, I really don't care. If Cassel gives the team a better chance to win, it's only a marginally better chance and that's the point. Arguing about which of two inadequate options is better just underlines to me that neither of them is a good option. Neither is Freeman and neither is your guy, Joe Webb. I don't care if any of them are with the Vikings next season and I don't want any of them as the team's starting QB. If one of them is the starter, I'll root for him and hope for the best but I'm hoping the Vikes somehow find better options.

Mothman wrote:At this point, I just don't care. Cassel, Ponder, Freeman... throw them in a hat. I think the chances of the team winning are about the same with any of them (maybe less with freeman if he plays like he did last year) and none of them represent a satisfying answer to the question: "who is the Vikings starting quarterback?". As far as I can tell, the best thing Cassel seems to have going for him among most fans is that he's not Ponder. He had a few good games last season and a few I'd rather forget. If he's back, that's fine but I'm really a LOT more interested in who the new option(s) will be at QB than in which of the QBs from last season will be on the roster when the 2014 season kicks off.

At some point your going to have to ask yourself, who gave us the most wins, while playing QB, last year. And who gave us the most losses. Forget the D. That's going to be addressed sooner rather then later (at least I hope so).

PurpleKoolaid wrote:At some point your going to have to ask yourself, who gave us the most wins, while playing QB, last year. And who gave us the most losses. Forget the D. That's going to be addressed sooner rather then later (at least I hope so).

I've already asked myself that question. However, there's no reason to say "forget the D" because QBs don't "give" teams wins and losses. That's an overly simplistic way to look at things. Teams win and lose games as teams. QB play, offense, defense, special teams, luck... they all factored into the wins and losses last season.

It doesn't matter anyway because none of these QBs are QBs we should want starting. That's the point. People seem insistent on making this about Ponder vs Cassel as if a great deal separates the two. The truth is they were both inconsistent last year, good at times, awful at others. Sure, Cassel had a fantastic game against the Eagles and played well in a few other games but he was genuinely bad in some other performances. As fans, we shouldn't let the high of that offensive explosion against the Eagles blind us to the low of the performance that followed it in Cincy or the underwhelming performance he delivered in the last game of the season.

For me, this isn't about Ponder or Cassel, it's about finding better options. I'd love to see the Vikes come out of this draft with a couple of QBs, perhaps one in R1 or R2 and Aaron Murray a little later. If they want Cassel back, that's fine but if they found a similar veteran option in free agency and Cassel walked, it wouldn't bother me a bit.