Frazier Hints Freeman Didn't Get a Fair Shake

[Eli]

They would have to want to resign Freeman before worrying about whether or not Zimmer could turn him into something other than a bum. I just hope to hell that Spielman has gotten over him.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I think, and always thought, this has Rickie all over it. But he, in his classless way, dumped it on Fraizer, right after he was fired.

Here we go again I still don't believe Spielman pressured or told Frazier he had to start Freeman. He could have easily waited another week at the least but he didn't. He jumped right into it. And when did he blatantly dump it on Frazier??? He never did. You just like to believe he did. Regardless, it's over with....can we move on or do we have to continue to talk about that below average coach named Leslie when we already have a new coach?

[Laserman]

Freeman was missing Wide open, I MEAN WIDE OPEN Wrs against the Giants. So open it should have been simple pitch and catch. If Cassel played that game and got those looks we would have scored 50 PLUS Points. freeman was missing guys by a mile. Something was wrong with him, Any NFL QB would have completed a lot of passages, new to the team or not

[im4mnvikes]

Freeman was missing Wide open, I MEAN WIDE OPEN Wrs against the Giants. So open it should have been simple pitch and catch. If Cassel played that game and got those looks we would have scored 50 PLUS Points. freeman was missing guys by a mile. Something was wrong with him, Any NFL QB would have completed a lot of passages, new to the team or not

Thank you, I have been saying that all along. He could have known the playbook from cover to cover but it would not have helped his passing. I believe they started him because the Giants were a terrible team and it should have been an easy win.

[thatguy]

I don't think that Freeman will get a shot next season if work ethic is a problem, Zimmer doesn't seem like a coach to put up with slackers.

He's put up with some pretty interesting, hard-to-deal-with characters before...

[PacificNorseWest]

^And they love the guy. Zimmer is respected by so many of those players. That's what's the most unique about him.

[PurpleHalo]

I don't care if Freeman didn't know the offense in that Monday game vs NY, his passes looked like what I would toss up there. WRs aren't 9 feet tall no matter what system they play in.

[PurpleHalo]

Freeman was missing Wide open, I MEAN WIDE OPEN Wrs against the Giants. So open it should have been simple pitch and catch. If Cassel played that game and got those looks we would have scored 50 PLUS Points. freeman was missing guys by a mile. Something was wrong with him, Any NFL QB would have completed a lot of passages, new to the team or not

And all they managed was 1 FG vs a very ordinary Giants D, he showed zero touch all night long. The only way he returns is Zimmer telling him he wants to give him a real look. He would have never returned to Frazier and company. Zimmer may talk to players about his attitude, if reports are true, his career could be over.

[psjordan]

ROFL. It's also a way of saying "I made a big mistake but I'm not man enough to come out and admit it".

In fact, he didn't say either of those things which is why it made no freekin sense. It was another parting dose of say-nothing from the King of Say-Nothing.

^^^ This.

I think, and always thought, this has Rickie all over it. But he, in his classless way, dumped it on Fraizer, right after he was fired.

I don't want to assume your comments on Spielman equal an endorsement of Frazier, but if Frazier was truly "taking orders" from Spielman WRT who to start, can you really find ANY grounds to defend him as an NFL head coach?

I think the rest of it says they were auditioning QBs to see if Ponder or Cassel could seize the job for 2014 (and help Frazier keep his job after 2013). They were looking for an answer and hoping it would be the guy they invested 2.5 years and a first round pick into developing.

I am surprised that 30 starts in and folks (including Frazier) are still using the term "auditioning" for Ponder. I know it sounds better than "we are waiting for this jamoke to figure it out", sure. But actually, truly still auditioning after 30 games? That is surprising to me.

Since I think Ponder definitely got shorted by the old staff in terms of "methods of development", I sincerely hope Zimmer, the new OC and the new strength/conditioning coach give Ponder a chance after a full offseason and training camp. I hope within the next 3 weeks every player on the roster including Ponder has a workout plan with specific targets that the team measures monthly.

I believe a guy like Zimmer, from all I've heard, not only can effectively plan that out but can also light those fires for the players, so it will be mighty interesting for me to watch who develops beyond where they are now.

BTW, Ross Tucker of Sirius XM (was with Cowboys when Zimmer was there) is absolutely giddyecstatic over the hiring of Zimmer. Said every player on the Cowboys would have run through walls for the guy.

[Mothman]

I am surprised that 30 starts in and folks (including Frazier) are still using the term "auditioning" for Ponder. I know it sounds better than "we are waiting for this jamoke to figure it out", sure. But actually, truly still auditioning after 30 games? That is surprising to me.

By all means, pick another word if it makes you happy. I just thought "auditioning" got the point across and you obviously understood my meaning, which was that they were trying to get Ponder to "figure it out", to improve, to seize and hang onto the job, etc.

[psjordan]

By all means, pick another word if it makes you happy. I just thought "auditioning" got the point across and you obviously understood my meaning, which was that they were trying to get Ponder to "figure it out", to improve, to seize and hang onto the job, etc.

Semantics aside, I would still be surprised that anyone truly felt Ponder did "not get enough opportunity" to show what he had to that point as an NFL QB. And at the end of the day maybe you're right, it IS semantics that bother me, as I got wholly sick and tired of these types of comments from Frazier. Maybe he feels he needs to leave every situation with the fire put out and the smoke cleared, I don't know. I do know it took about his tenure with the team for me to get sick of it.

[mansquatch]

I'm with PSJordan on this one. After the 3rd game it should have been obvious that Ponder just didn't have it. The biggest thing with Ponder was the obvious ceiling of his upside, which never really improved. I think the pulled the plug way too fast on Cassell after the Carolina blowout. Whose fault that is, who made the decisions, we'll never know. But is obvious that Frasier's termination was at least partially due to this mess. (I think the state of the defense was the bigger black mark.)

On Freeman, I think we have incomplete info. There was a report about other players finding his effort to be lack luster. The performance we saw on MNF was a disaster. So then Frasier comes out and says the above. None of it is really consistent.

IMO, the only conclusion one can reach with any certainty is that the whole QB situation was a mis-managed mess and the best player at the position on the roster was not allowed to start for some unknown reason.

Everyone is enjoying Zimmer euphoria, which is all well and good, but the QB mess is still the elephant in the room and will remain the biggest singular challenge faced by the new coaching staff. The only solace I take is that Cassel is most likely a serviceable starter so if they can retain him they will at least have a back up plan if the draft is not nice to them. (I think there is going to be a run on QBs which leave us in a siutation where BPA non QB is probably the best choice at #8.)

[Mothman]

I'm with PSJordan on this one. After the 3rd game it should have been obvious that Ponder just didn't have it. The biggest thing with Ponder was the obvious ceiling of his upside, which never really improved. I think the pulled the plug way too fast on Cassell after the Carolina blowout. Whose fault that is, who made the decisions, we'll never know. But is obvious that Frasier's termination was at least partially due to this mess. (I think the state of the defense was the bigger black mark.)

I think he was put in position to fail and consequently, he failed.

We can ride the Freeman/Ponder/Cassel merry-go-round forever and talk about what impact it had on Frazier's demise as head coach but the bottom line is that it happened because they didn't have a good #1 option to play the position in the first place. Add that player to the roster and suddenly, there is no QB carousel, there is no reason fro Frazier to switch QBs. It's easy to second guess his choices at the position but he had no definitive solution available to him. It's tough to solve a problem at QB when there's no good answer on the roster.

As you said, the QB situation remains the elephant in the room. If they want Turner to come in and run his take on the "Air Coryell" offense, they'd better have a QB who can run it effectively.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I think he was put in position to fail and consequently, he failed.

We can ride the Freeman/Ponder/Cassel merry-go-round forever and talk about what impact it had on Frazier's demise as head coach but the bottom line is that it happened because they didn't have a good #1 option to play the position in the first place. Add that player to the roster and suddenly, there is no QB carousel, there is no reason fro Frazier to switch QBs. It's easy to second guess his choices at the position but he had no definitive solution available to him. It's tough to solve a problem at QB when there's no good answer on the roster.

As you said, the QB situation remains the elephant in the room. If they want Turner to come in and run his take on the "Air Coryell" offense, they'd better have a QB who can run it effectively.

I feel you have a very strong love for Frazier Why? I'm not sure

[psjordan]

I'm with PSJordan on this one.

"Those who agree with us may not be right, but we admire their astuteness" -- Cullen Hightower

Everyone is enjoying Zimmer euphoria, which is all well and good, but the QB mess is still the elephant in the room

Here's the thing about that. I think everyone understands Zimmer does not come into town with QB rabbits in his hat. Whatever the Vikes do at QB with Zimmer would have very likely been what we would have done had we retained FraZier. And I think we are all betting that we'll draft a QB at some point in this year's draft.

So now the question becomes - is our QB situation (let's say we retain Cassel and Ponder and draft a rookie, for arguments sake):
Better with Zimmer/Turner and staff, or better with FraZier/Musgrave and staff?

I think part of the "Zimmer euphoria" is that a lot of us are guessing the Zimmer/Turner combo will be much better suited to deal with it. I guess we'll see.