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What praise does he deserve for playing average? He made throws and reads that 95% of the starting QBs in the league are expected to make. He doesn't deserve praise for that IMHO. He was incredibly average, much in the same way he finished last season, and it only took him 8 games into this season to return to that lofty level of play.

I don't put this loss on Ponder or anyone on the offense. The poor defensive scheme on that last drive coupled with bad special team play. The muffed kickoff by Patterson set up the Ponder fumble in the end zone & if we had say Blair Walsh from last year, he wouldn't have missed that XP & they wouldn't have hesitated to kick that 54 yard FG instead of punting.

Valhalla wrote: Can we name a quarterback who never did the first? Maybe Montana.

Pointing to Ponder's huge blunders and saying "Some great quarterbacks also made that blunder" doesn't help. Those great quarterbacks were great quarterbacks because of how they consistently played, and the fact that they minimised those blunders. If Dan Marino had committed a butt fumble at some point in his career Sanchez would still be a joke.

Valhalla wrote: http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1992-1 ... ck-cowboys

Or #2, #3, if we had made the point after, maybe we could have been trying for a FG, Hail Marys are called exactly that, they don't often work.

It sounds like you're arguing that if different things had happened maybe we could have won in spite of Ponder. Ok, but that doesn't excuse Ponder. And the last play of the game isn't being called a fail mary just because it didn't work.

Valhalla wrote:as to #4, the QB is the most important position on the team but some displays by the defense as in the prior 3 games have been a horror show.

True, the defense has been atrocious. I think it doesn't get as much attention in here, (although it has been talked about a lot lately), as the QB position for a few reasons.

1. Everyone knows it's bad. Nobody brags if they do okay against a terrible offense or makes arguments like "Even Lawrence Taylor wiffed on tackles sometimes" to excuse it.
2. The QB carousel naturally is going to generate more attention.
3. The defense has only recently, (relatively speaking), plummeted to these depths. We've been dealing with poor quarterbacks that coaches wouldn't let go of since Jackson came here. And other than 1 year with Favre, we haven't had a good QB since Culpepper. And Culpepper wasn't as good as people think he was, (Moss made him look better, and IIRC he also had huge fumbling issues for 2 of the 5 years he was here).
4. At this point any more calls of "Let's give this bad QB yet one more chance" or "Praise that bad QB who didn't play as bad as usual this one game" is going to generate controversy.

Ponder had one good game, hell anybody can have a good game. Ponder has shown start after start that he is not a good NFL quarterback or even a game manager. Playcalling is no excuse for forcing balls, taking off when he has a receiver open and holding onto the football too long. Minnesota has given ponder plenty of time to show what he has and even though he has had some good games he's had even worse. It's time to release ponder and pick a decent quarterback.

Praise for ponder? He played Ok, Average, not really good, and not as bad as he usually does. Hmmm if only OK QB play pleases you then get comfy in the NFC North Cellar. I can't stand this "Game manager QB" Philosophy . That worked 2 times, one in Tampa Bay and once in Baltimore and both teams had one of the TOP 10 DEFENSIVES of all time. This Childress mentality of Game manager QB, Play not to lose, Bend but don't break baloney needs to go ASAP. That philosophy is now reaping what it has sown. Why are we trying in vain to copy the 49ers of the 80s style of play in 2013? It's like the 85 bears Defense, teams have figured out how to deal with it.

Sure Ponder didn't play horrible, but I didn't see the whole game. This team has a huge advantage when it comes to QBs, Adrian Peterson, if this is the best you can get from Ponder with that factor, I'm not impressed sorry.

PurpleHalo wrote:Sure Ponder didn't play horrible, but I didn't see the whole game. This team has a huge advantage when it comes to QBs, Adrian Peterson, if this is the best you can get from Ponder with that factor, I'm not impressed sorry.

exactly

VikingHoard wrote: Those are both to blame, but so is Ponder holding the ball to long and having no pocket awareness, (even after watching Selvie get about 95% of the way around Webb). Other people's additional mistakes do not erase Ponder's.

Yup, he should have gotten rid of at 2 seconds. From the time the ball was snapped to the fumble was about 3 seconds maybe 3.5. But, yeah, it's all his fault because the play called takes 4 seconds to develop and he had 3 seconds before the D line man was swatting at his arm. But hell, now I will be called a Ponder apologist. And pocket presence, how many QB can sense a D lineman coming at them from behind?

Maybe we should blame Peterson for not making a first down on 4th and 1. No wait, it's not his fault, maybe the O-line for not making a better hole for him to run in. NO, Ponders fault for not completing a better pass the play before.

Ponder is not playing well. Fine. But he not the only reason this team is losing. If they happen to win with him at QB I know absolutely no one will give him credit for it. Even if by some miracle he throws 5 TD passes. Matter of fact if he did throw 5 TD passes and they lost and it would still be his fault. Because he didn't throw 6.

Raptorman wrote: Yup, he should have gotten rid of at 2 seconds. From the time the ball was snapped to the fumble was about 3 seconds maybe 3.5. But, yeah, it's all his fault because the play called takes 4 seconds to develop and he had 3 seconds before the D line man was swatting at his arm. But hell, now I will be called a Ponder apologist. And pocket presence, how many QB can sense a D lineman coming at them from behind?

Maybe we should blame Peterson for not making a first down on 4th and 1. No wait, it's not his fault, maybe the O-line for not making a better hole for him to run in. NO, Ponders fault for not completing a better pass the play before.

Ponder is not playing well. Fine. But he not the only reason this team is losing. If they happen to win with him at QB I know absolutely no one will give him credit for it. Even if by some miracle he throws 5 TD passes. Matter of fact if he did throw 5 TD passes and they lost and it would still be his fault. Because he didn't throw 6.

Exactly! I agree with this post 100%

All I can think of reading this thread is how low our standards for QB play have gotten. When Ponder is a little better than his normal, pathetic self, we should PRAISE him?!! Okay. He wasn't a brutal as usual yesterday. Great job!!!

He still should not take another meaningful snap in a Viking uniform. EVER!!!

I do love the comparison of watching Ponder lead an offense to Chinese water torture. Pretty accurate there.

They have lost every game Ponder has played this year. Fraizer still has him as his #1 QB. Any other team, Fraizer would be fired. I don't know why he is receiving this special treatment. His is inept and over his head as a HC. Its not Ponder's fault our moronic HC keeps starting him.

Raptorman wrote: Yup, he should have gotten rid of at 2 seconds. From the time the ball was snapped to the fumble was about 3 seconds maybe 3.5. But, yeah, it's all his fault

Let me interrupt you here. What part of "Those are both to blame, but so is Ponder" did you interpret as "it's ALL Ponder's fault"?

Raptorman wrote:because the play called takes 4 seconds to develop and he had 3 seconds before the D line man was swatting at his arm.

Well he wouldn't want to deviate from the plan in reaction to what's actually happening on the field now would he?

Raptorman wrote:But hell, now I will be called a Ponder apologist.

No, I'll call you ArguesWithStrawmen.

Raptorman wrote:And pocket presence, how many QB can sense a D lineman coming at them from behind?

Watch the play again. Ponder looked right at Webb and saw a block in mid-collapse, then just turned away and ignored it. And yeah, a lot of QBs can sense a D lineman coming at them from behind.

Raptorman wrote:Maybe we should blame Peterson for not making a first down on 4th and 1. No wait, it's not his fault, maybe the O-line for not making a better hole for him to run in. NO, Ponders fault for not completing a better pass the play before.

Ponder is not playing well. Fine. But he not the only reason this team is losing. If they happen to win with him at QB I know absolutely no one will give him credit for it. Even if by some miracle he throws 5 TD passes. Matter of fact if he did throw 5 TD passes and they lost and it would still be his fault. Because he didn't throw 6.

Funny how all the arguments against your opinion that you make up sound terrible. When I make up the arguments against my opinions, they sound ridiculous too! Imagine that.

Watched the play several time now. Ponder looks at Webb in contact with the D lineman, then turns and OMG, looks downfield for a WR. Just after looking downfield he takes step up into the pocket. By now the d-lineman on the other side has blown past Kalil and is heading Ponders way, I'm sure Ponder sees him because it looks like he is ready to get rid of the ball. However at this time the D-lineman is past Webb, who are both now behind Ponders peripheral vision, and Ponder is starting to move into his throwing motion. So, 2 seconds after the ball is snapped, both D-lineman have shed their blocks, one is about 6 feet behind Ponder out of his vision, the other about 4 yards heading his way fast. 3 seconds from the snap to the ball being stripped. That sack and fumble is all on Webb. At least that's my opinion. I could be wrong.

It looks like Ponder had Felton open at the 6 and he was trying to get it to him.

Raptorman wrote:Watched the play several time now. Ponder looks at Webb in contact with the D lineman, then turns and OMG, looks downfield for a WR. Just after looking downfield he takes step up into the pocket. By now the d-lineman on the other side has blown past Kalil and is heading Ponders way, I'm sure Ponder sees him because it looks like he is ready to get rid of the ball. However at this time the D-lineman is past Webb, who are both now behind Ponders peripheral vision, and Ponder is starting to move into his throwing motion. So, 2 seconds after the ball is snapped, both D-lineman have shed their blocks, one is about 6 feet behind Ponder out of his vision, the other about 4 yards heading his way fast. 3 seconds from the snap to the ball being stripped. That sack and fumble is all on Webb. At least that's my opinion. I could be wrong.

It looks like Ponder had Felton open at the 6 and he was trying to get it to him.

You are wrong. A good QB doesn't stay back there that long. After a play action. In the endzone. You get rid of the ball. You don't think Ponder knows the weaknesses in our Oline? While he is in the endzone?

Just watched the play again myself a couple times. Ponder took the snap at about the 3 yard line and backed up to about 5 yards into the end zone. While he was doing this, he looked right at Selvie until he actually got past Webb. He then turned to look downfield and took a couple tiny steps forward, to about 4 yard in the end zone. Seeing another unblocked defender coming from the left and yet another one breaking through the middle, Ponder attempted to make a throw as fast as he could then. On the first few viewings, I hadn't noticed the additional man coming through the middle, (wow our oline screwed up that play), and thought he had room to move forward further into the pocket and safely make the pass. Although he could have taken larger steps forward into the pocket initially, he really didn't do as badly on that as I previously thought, especially when I noticed the play was only 3 seconds long. So, I guess I'll have to revise my opinion on that play and give him a pass on it.