Vikings Message Board.Com

soflavike wrote:Gino Torretta was a winner in college, so was Tim Tebow... and Tim Couch... and Ryan Leaf.

ergo, let's draft a loser in college?

purplehaze wrote:That is all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtxaHwgr6ZQ

This is one of those rare years where there seem to be a number of future NFL starting QB who could be coming out. As for Johnny Football, I didn't like the guy's off-season attitude, I'll tell you that, but he definitely can play. Is he big enough to take the punishment of being a running-QB at the next level?

Texas Vike wrote: ergo, let's draft a loser in college?

Wrong conclusion. The right conclusion is that being a stud QB in college ball will not guarantee NFL success. Some of the best NFL QB's ever have been mid and late round picks. It's a crapshoot, at best.

In 2011, the following QB's were picked in the first round: Cam Newton #1, Jake Locker #8, Blaine Gabbert #10, Christian Ponder #12... Andy Dalton & Colin Kaepernick fell into the 2nd round. Of the four first rounders, only one is worth a plugged nickel.

In 2010, Sam Bradford went #1 to the Rams, Tim Tebow went next at #25 in the 1st round.

In 2009, the Lions picked Stafford with the #1 pick (great pick), next was Mark Sanchez at #5 and Josh Freeman at #17 Vikes picked Percy Harvin at #22

In 2008, the Falcons picked Matt Ryan at #3, Joe Flacco went at #18, both great picks. Vikes had no 1st round pick.

In 2007, the Raiders picked JaMarcus Russell at #1, the Browns picked Brady Quinn at #22 and the Eagles picked Kevin Kolb early in the 2nd round... BUST, BUST, BUST Vikes had the good sense to draft Adrian Peterson in the 1st round.

In 2006, the Titans picked Vince Young at #3, Matt Leinart #10 and Jay Cutler #11 were next. Pretty mediocre bunch. Vikes picked Chad Greenway at #17

In 2005, the 49ers picked Alex Smith #1, the Packers picked Aaron Rodgers at #24, the Redskins picked Jason Campbell #25. The Vikings picked Troy Williamson at #7... AAAAAUUUUGGGGGHHHHHH.

In 2004, the Chargers picked Eli Manning at #1, the Giants picked Philip Rivers at #4 (then swapped with SD), next was Big Ben Roethlisberger at #11 to the Steelers, then J.P. Losman at #22 to the Bills. Matt Schaub went in the 3rd round. Vikes picked Kenechi Udeze at #20.

In 2003, the Bengals picked Carson Palmer #1, the Jags took Byron Leftwich at #7, Kyle Boller went at #19 to the Ravens and Rex Grossman was picked by the Bears at #22. Vikes picked Kevin Williams at #9

In 2002, the Texans picked David Carr at #1, Joey Harrington went to Detroit at #3, Patrick Ramsey at #32 to the Redskins. BUST, BUST, BUST. Vikes picked Bryant McKinney at #7.

In 2001, the Falcons picked Michael Vick at #1, the Chargers took Drew Brees at #32... Vikes picked RB Michael Bennett at #27

In 2000, Chad Pennington was picked in the 1st round by the Jets), some guy named Tom Brady was a 6th round pick. Vikings picked Chris Hovan at #25

In 1999, five QB's were picked in the 1st round: Tim Couch was picked #1, Donovan McNabb #2 and Akili Smith #3. The Vikes picked Daunte Culpepper 11th in the 1st round. Cade McNown went next at #12 to the Bears. 2 out of 5 of those guys had any sort of success in the league.

In 1998, Peyton Manning was the #1 pick and then Ryan Leaf went at #2... slightly different career outcomes.

Ancient history:
Joe Montana, 3rd round pick (Bengals picked QB Jack Thompson in the 1st round, 3rd pick)
Roger Staubach, 10th round pick, (QB Pete Beathard was picked in the 1st round by the Lions, remember him?)
Brett Favre, 1991 2nd round pick (the Seahawks picked QB Dan McGwyre in Round 1, the Raiders picked Todd Marinovich)
Dan Fouts: 3rd round pick (the Colts picked QB Bert Jones with the #2 pick in the 1st round)
Fran Tarkenton: 3rd round pick (the Redskins picked Norm Snead with the #2 pick in the 1st round, the 49ers picked Billy Kilmer at #11)

soflavike wrote:Gino Torretta was a winner in college, so was Tim Tebow... and Tim Couch... and Ryan Leaf.

I was thinking the same thing. Not sure about Johnny Football but he does seem to have bust written all over him. He's good, he's a winner, he's innovative, he's scrappy, and he is very very lucky yes yes yes. He also is short and has a weak arm. Hard to tell about this guy. He's a gamble.

soflavike wrote: Wrong conclusion. The right conclusion is that being a stud QB in college ball will not guarantee NFL success. Some of the best NFL QB's ever have been mid and late round picks. It's a crapshoot, at best.

In 2011, the following QB's were picked in the first round: Cam Newton #1, Jake Locker #8, Blaine Gabbert #10, Christian Ponder #12... Andy Dalton & Colin Kaepernick fell into the 2nd round. Of the four first rounders, only one is worth a plugged nickel.

In 2010, Sam Bradford went #1 to the Rams, Tim Tebow went next at #25 in the 1st round.

In 2009, the Lions picked Stafford with the #1 pick (great pick), next was Mark Sanchez at #5 and Josh Freeman at #17 Vikes picked Percy Harvin at #22

In 2008, the Falcons picked Matt Ryan at #3, Joe Flacco went at #18, both great picks. Vikes had no 1st round pick.

In 2007, the Raiders picked JaMarcus Russell at #1, the Browns picked Brady Quinn at #22 and the Eagles picked Kevin Kolb early in the 2nd round... BUST, BUST, BUST Vikes had the good sense to draft Adrian Peterson in the 1st round.

In 2006, the Titans picked Vince Young at #3, Matt Leinart #10 and Jay Cutler #11 were next. Pretty mediocre bunch. Vikes picked Chad Greenway at #17

In 2005, the 49ers picked Alex Smith #1, the Packers picked Aaron Rodgers at #24, the Redskins picked Jason Campbell #25. The Vikings picked Troy Williamson at #7... AAAAAUUUUGGGGGHHHHHH.

In 2004, the Chargers picked Eli Manning at #1, the Giants picked Philip Rivers at #4 (then swapped with SD), next was Big Ben Roethlisberger at #11 to the Steelers, then J.P. Losman at #22 to the Bills. Matt Schaub went in the 3rd round. Vikes picked Kenechi Udeze at #20.

In 2003, the Bengals picked Carson Palmer #1, the Jags took Byron Leftwich at #7, Kyle Boller went at #19 to the Ravens and Rex Grossman was picked by the Bears at #22. Vikes picked Kevin Williams at #9

In 2002, the Texans picked David Carr at #1, Joey Harrington went to Detroit at #3, Patrick Ramsey at #32 to the Redskins. BUST, BUST, BUST. Vikes picked Bryant McKinney at #7.

In 2001, the Falcons picked Michael Vick at #1, the Chargers took Drew Brees at #32... Vikes picked RB Michael Bennett at #27

In 2000, Chad Pennington was picked in the 1st round by the Jets), some guy named Tom Brady was a 6th round pick. Vikings picked Chris Hovan at #25

In 1999, five QB's were picked in the 1st round: Tim Couch was picked #1, Donovan McNabb #2 and Akili Smith #3. The Vikes picked Daunte Culpepper 11th in the 1st round. Cade McNown went next at #12 to the Bears. 2 out of 5 of those guys had any sort of success in the league.

In 1998, Peyton Manning was the #1 pick and then Ryan Leaf went at #2... slightly different career outcomes.

Ancient history:
Joe Montana, 3rd round pick (Bengals picked QB Jack Thompson in the 1st round, 3rd pick)
Roger Staubach, 10th round pick, (QB Pete Beathard was picked in the 1st round by the Lions, remember him?)
Brett Favre, 1991 2nd round pick (the Seahawks picked QB Dan McGwyre in Round 1, the Raiders picked Todd Marinovich)
Dan Fouts: 3rd round pick (the Colts picked QB Bert Jones with the #2 pick in the 1st round)
Fran Tarkenton: 3rd round pick (the Redskins picked Norm Snead with the #2 pick in the 1st round, the 49ers picked Billy Kilmer at #11)

ergo, throw a dart?

Manziel is a very difficult prospect to evaluate. Fans and draft gurus either love him or hate him as an NFL prospect--there seems to be no in between. The line of argument that doesn't convince me is that his stature and lack of a huge arm will not translate to the pro game or that he can get away with those shortcomings now, but won't be able to in the pros. This isn't Fresno St's Carr or Louisville's Bridgewater; Manziel is having huge success in the SEC against powerhouse teams, like Alabama. There won't be a huge jump in talent level from SEC to Pros; not nearly as large as the gap from Louisville/Fresno St.'s opponents.

I thought it was going to be a video of AJ McCarron, but I should've known it would be Manziel. Manziel will be Tebow 2.0 in the NFL.

Texas Vike wrote:
ergo, throw a dart?

Kind of looks that way, doesn't it?

JEC334 wrote:I thought it was going to be a video of AJ McCarron, but I should've known it would be Manziel. Manziel will be Tebow 2.0 in the NFL.

Yep, kinda true. Only he wont even have Tebows size. And instead of getting attention for prayers r whatever, it will be for childish stuff and yelling.

Jeffbleedspurple wrote:I have only one thing to say, DEFENSE!!!!

The offense is a HUGE reason why the defense is so bad. The Vikings are last in the NFL in time of possession. Defenses need to rest to be effective. This defense isn't great, but it is by no means as bad as it looks. Put any defense in this league on the field for over half the game they are going to wear down in the game and the season.

PurpleKoolaid wrote: Yep, kinda true. Only he wont even have Tebows size. And instead of getting attention for prayers r whatever, it will be for childish stuff and yelling.

To be fair, Manziel is a better QB right now than Tebow will ever be...not saying much.

Valhalla wrote: You're right, it's not saying much. Just winning a playoff game over the Pittsburgh Steelers, oh wait.

And his game against Patriots after that? He had a 72 qb rating. "Winning"? Like Ponder "winning" that week 16 game against Packers. Let's start that Ponder guy this year, did you see his Packers game the year before!

No one wanted Tebow, no one wants Tebow. Because he can't play QB. One game every half dozen games doesn't a QB make....Ponder can manage that...

Manziel has had a better completion % than Tebow last season, and this one. More passing yards than Tebow managed any season. Almost twice the rushing yards than Tebow managed any season.

Tebow.

Fyi our future QB is playing Mississippi State today at 2:30pm. Good TV.

Oh good, a Manziel topic, I was looking for something new to bash on because I'm getting bored of picking on Ponder (well not really xD). And this was the best highlight you could find lol? Did you see how fast he panicked in the pocket? Then he tried to bail before the pocket even collapsed. Then while panicking he ran into the back of his own lineman and nearly had a butt fumble, a la Mark Sanchez. I give him credit for keeping his eyes down field after he finally escaped the pocket, and for finding a wide open guy because Ponder can't do either, but man he's going to be another happy feet, panicking, deer in headlights, try to run QB once he gets into the NFL.

Having said that, the only thing I see in highlight reels of Manziel is how we should consider drafting Mike Evans. He catches everything Manziel throws up for grabs. Manziel is a future BUST, and I'm going to laugh at the team that drafts him, so I hope like hell it's not us. We've failed long enough at the position. Seriously, his backyard clown show isn't going to work in this league. But that Evans, man he reminds me of Cris Carter.

PurpleMustReign wrote:You've been on the board for awhile... you honestly think this won't turn into a thread about someone else? Heck, I guarantee within 10 posts it turns into a Ponder thread, or at the very least, a Viking Management bashing thread.

If you haven't noticed, Ponder is somehow our starter again. We just can't seem to get rid of the guy. He's like a really bad infection. He's injured again, but he played just well enough to allow his backers to show their faces in public again, so I don't think we've seen the last of him. Like TJack, when he finally goes away, we'll stop talking about him. And he's on topic here because this thread is about replacing him.

Reignman wrote:Having said that, the only thing I see in highlight reels of Manziel is how we should consider drafting Mike Evans. He catches everything Manziel throws up for grabs.

I had the very same thought after watching a bunch of A&M games. Evans looks really impressive especially for a guy his size. I see him as a pass catching TE along the lines of a guy like Jimmy Graham.

Another underrated area is A&M's offensive line, which I think is very good and buys Manziel a lot of time. All of the highlights show Manziel running around like a chicken without a head but if you watch the games, he actually gets a ton of time on most of his plays.

S197 wrote: I had the very same thought after watching a bunch of A&M games. Evans looks really impressive especially for a guy his size. I see him as a pass catching TE along the lines of a guy like Jimmy Graham.

Another underrated area is A&M's offensive line, which I think is very good and buys Manziel a lot of time. All of the highlights show Manziel running around like a chicken without a head but if you watch the games, he actually gets a ton of time on most of his plays.

Good point, even in the highlight in the first post, the pocket is perfect when Manziel starts to panic.