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Spielman has made some decent picks and some not so great but he is not very good eyeing QB talent at all. I think we need a better GM

And what about coaches? What are they doing? How much say does he have hiring them?

I can't exactly say he can't pick a QB. He's tried once now.
Childress was obviously a fly in the ointment in years past.
Ponder has plenty of talent....it's what's between his ears and in his heart that I question. I'm not so sure those are things you can be completely sure of about a guy beforehand. Some guys it's obvious.

His picks in the secondary however, seem below average. Is it the pick itself? the coaching? the scheme? all of the above?

The Breeze wrote:I can't exactly say he can't pick a QB. He's tried once now.
Childress was obviously a fly in the ointment in years past.
Ponder has plenty of talent....it's what's between his ears and in his heart that I question. I'm not so sure those are things you can be completely sure of about a guy beforehand. Some guys it's obvious.

His picks in the secondary however, seem below average. Is it the pick itself? the coaching? the scheme? all of the above?

Yeah, picking a QB is pretty much just taking a stab in the dark unless you got the #1 pick and theirs an andrew luck. That's why I've always been an advocate of always taking a flyer on a QB if he happens to be the BPA or so in like the 4th round.

As for the secondary, I dunno, I think a lot of it has to do with the scheme and then not having line backers. But it's also hard to argue a lot of these DB's just haven't had any talent.

Our GM has done some really good things, and some very puzzling things. Drafting Ponder was partly Fraziers decision though. But to only draft one QB, and never give Ponder any real competition or have a good backup was bad. Signing Carlson to all that up front money, will go down as a truly boneheaded move as well. The recent move of holding onto Gerbhart when a team wanted him, Toby is just a guy, easily relacable and he's a FA next spring bad move.

His biggest mistake, was holding onto the notion that this team was a contender after 2009, should have dumped salary at that time and collected picks for a total bottom out / rebuild. Who knows, if he had, this team might be starting Luck Sunday in London.

I’m sure someone will flame this, but I’m not that upset with Spielman taking Ponder when he did. The team was faced with a horrible situation at that position going into that draft after the mess Childress created. They had to get a QB. You can be mad that they didn’t take Dalton, again hindsight is 20/20, but the situation at the position was forcing them into a place where they had to draft for need. It sucks that the guy isn’t working out, but sadly, that is the nature of QBs. I do agree that they should be on occasion taking mid round flyers on BPA QBs so they have a backup plan. I’ve been a hard core fan since the early 90s and aside from Culpepper’s run the team has never had a great situation at this position. Maybe it is just cultural at Winter Park?

I’m just hoping Cassel pulls some magic out of his hat. I think this team needs somebody to put it on his back for a game or two and get everyone out of the emotional dumpster.

mansquatch wrote:I’m sure someone will flame this, but I’m not that upset with Spielman taking Ponder when he did. The team was faced with a horrible situation at that position going into that draft after the mess Childress created. They had to get a QB. You can be mad that they didn’t take Dalton, again hindsight is 20/20, but the situation at the position was forcing them into a place where they had to draft for need. It sucks that the guy isn’t working out, but sadly, that is the nature of QBs. I do agree that they should be on occasion taking mid round flyers on BPA QBs so they have a backup plan. I’ve been a hard core fan since the early 90s and aside from Culpepper’s run the team has never had a great situation at this position. Maybe it is just cultural at Winter Park?

I’m just hoping Cassel pulls some magic out of his hat. I think this team needs somebody to put it on his back for a game or two and get everyone out of the emotional dumpster.

How about Kaepernik? He showed more in college than Ponder or Dalton. Dalton is only slightly better than Ponder, but dalton has a top 3 WR who can make special plays with the ball in the air.

mansquatch wrote:I’m sure someone will flame this, but I’m not that upset with Spielman taking Ponder when he did. The team was faced with a horrible situation at that position going into that draft after the mess Childress created. They had to get a QB. You can be mad that they didn’t take Dalton, again hindsight is 20/20, but the situation at the position was forcing them into a place where they had to draft for need. It sucks that the guy isn’t working out, but sadly, that is the nature of QBs. I do agree that they should be on occasion taking mid round flyers on BPA QBs so they have a backup plan. I’ve been a hard core fan since the early 90s and aside from Culpepper’s run the team has never had a great situation at this position. Maybe it is just cultural at Winter Park?

I doubt it. I think it was primarily poor decisions by Brad Childress followed by the Christian Ponder experiment. Culpepper was injured in 2005. They drafted Jackson in 2006 and foolishly decided to depend on him to be their QB of the future. Brad Johnson was supposed to be the bridge to Jackson but that didn't work out well. After Johnson, it was Jackson and whichever veteran/journeyman QBs Childress could get his hands on (Frerotte, Holcomb, Favre...). Spielman brought in Rosenfels as a backup (and possibly a bridge to the next QB? Who knows?) but Childress didn't want him so when Favre went down, Jackson's contract was up and that left Webb as the sole QB under contract. In came Ponder who, as you indicated, was drafted for need. The Vikings made the investment so they also made a commitment to develop him. It hasn't worked out so here we are.

We all know Cassel was brought in as a veteran/journeyman backup to Ponder. The biggest potential mistake I see since 2011 was not getting a good, young alternative to Ponder as the team's QB of the future. I say "potential mistake" because maybe they believe MBT is that guy and since he hasn't had any significant playing time in a meaningful game, I can't say they're wrong. I'll be surprised if he proves to be a long term answer.

Anyway, I don't think it's a cultural thing with the Vikings. I think it was a Childress issue from 2006-2010 and since then, I think they've simply been committed to developing Ponder, which is the right approach, just taken with the wrong QB. There's certainly an argument to be made that they should have bailed on Ponder more quickly but that's a different discussion (and one that's been beaten to death).

DanAS wrote:With that as a preface, allow me to ask a question -- and I will frame this in non-leading fashion but truly out of the spirit of inquiry. How, over the years, has our current GM done with his non-first round selections compared to other NFL GMs? Is he at or near the very best? At least among the top third? Top half? Is he instead in the bottom half? Or is he near the bottom of the barrel?

I haven't done the analysis. But maybe some of you have, or maybe you are interested in taking an initial look at the question. This much I do know -- if we are going to subject to our QB, OL, linebackers, OC, and Head Coach to an incredible degree of scrutiny, it behooves us to at least see what we have at the GM position. And when you're evaluating a GM, you have to open your eyes to their track record after round one. If anyone here is willing to take a shot at that, I would be appreciative.

It's tricky to evaluate Spielman because he clearly didn't have the final say on all things draft-related until at least 2011, possibly 2012.

I guess the first question is: who ARE the best NFL General managers? According to his peers, Ozzie Newsome tops the list:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/ne ... k-newsome/

12 GMs were asked the question, 9 answered Newsome. The other 3 answered Ted Thompson.

So, if we can agree on those two GMs, the next step is probably to look at how well Spielman has drafted compared to those two GMs.

It's also some what hard to be picking QB's on a rebuilding team. We just had holes everywhere, in fact we still do! If you think you've got your starter at #12 overall I can easily understand how your focus shifts to filling some other holes. Holes at STARTING positions like Safety with Harrison Smith, LT with Kalil, Jarius Wright at WR. This year we clearly blew our draft on 3 guys we thought would be big differences makers, in other words we just saw long term opportunity in other positions.