Raptorman wrote:But I am sure this will be bash Ponder thread in no time. No one wants to talk about the elephant in the room. The defense. They don't seem to be able to stop the pass.
Nobody is letting the defense off the hook, even us Ponder bashers realize the defense is playing bottom of the league ball, but we're still focused on the huge elephant that's been in the room much longer than the normal sized elephant that arrived here just recently.
Plus I'm more inclined to believe the defensive woes are more a product of the poor scheming. The cover 0. As evidence, when we dial up the pressure and get more aggressive our defense looks light years better, then inexplicably we start and end games with that conservative crap and let the likes of Brian Hoyer walk all over us. So it's more mind boggling that Frazier/Williams keep making the same mistakes and keep telling us they need to look at the tape.
"Our playoff loss to the Vikings in '87 was probably the most traumatic experience I had in sports." -- Bill Walsh
I mean how hard is it? You got a young QB, dial up the pressure and keep throwing guys in his face. I thought that was basic football at this level? Clearly it was getting to Hoyer in the 2nd half and even led to some takeaways. But then yeah lets take our foot off the gas and let him beat us on the most important drive. Heck teams keep throwing pressure at our doe-eye QB so you'd think Frazier and co would pick up on the clues eventually.
"Our playoff loss to the Vikings in '87 was probably the most traumatic experience I had in sports." -- Bill Walsh
Jeffbleedspurple wrote:
My throat is sore from booing so loud, it didn't take long for the CASSEL chant to get started either, I didn't start it though
I heard the booing on TV, it was very noticeably, but I don't remember hearing a Cassel chant lol. They would show closeups of Ponder during the boos and you could see the vacant signs in his eyes where what little confidence he once had had lived.
"Our playoff loss to the Vikings in '87 was probably the most traumatic experience I had in sports." -- Bill Walsh
Reignman wrote:Nobody is letting the defense off the hook, even us Ponder bashers realize the defense is playing bottom of the league ball, but we're still focused on the huge elephant that's been in the room much longer than the normal sized elephant that arrived here just recently.
Plus I'm more inclined to believe the defensive woes are more a product of the poor scheming. The cover 0. As evidence, when we dial up the pressure and get more aggressive our defense looks light years better, then inexplicably we start and end games with that conservative crap and let the likes of Brian Hoyer walk all over us. So it's more mind boggling that Frazier/Williams keep making the same mistakes and keep telling us they need to look at the tape.
Right. And how many threads are there about the defense? 0. How many about Ponder? 90%. I have seen exactly 3 people talk about the defense being a problem in the last 3 weeks. It's all about Ponder. If and when they replace him with Cassel and the defense is still giving up 32 points a game it will be all about how Cassel isn't what everyone thought he was. I have to think that being behind Brady for three years in New England, Hoyer learned something. You do realize that the Vikings are scoring 4 points more a game then they did last year. Unfortunately, they are giving up 11 more points a game for net loss of 7.
Vikings fan since Nov. 6, 1966. Annoying Packer fans since Nov. 7, 1966
Raptorman wrote:
Right. And how many threads are there about the defense? 0. How many about Ponder? 90%. I have seen exactly 3 people talk about the defense being a problem in the last 3 weeks. It's all about Ponder. If and when they replace him with Cassel and the defense is still giving up 32 points a game it will be all about how Cassel isn't what everyone thought he was. I have to think that being behind Brady for three years in New England, Hoyer learned something. You do realize that the Vikings are scoring 4 points more a game then they did last year. Unfortunately, they are giving up 11 more points a game for net loss of 7.
You can't expect much from your defense when they know dam.n well they will be back on the field in 5 plays or less.
Defensive fatigue and frustration is real. It's amazing what a couple nice drives and TD's can do for moral on both sides of the ball.
Well last year we won like 80% of our games decided by one touch down our less. This year we've lost both of them which is obviously 0%. I'm not sure we WERE much better last year when it really comes down to it but we might have made literally ONE extra play per game. One TD instead of a field goal, one stop for the defense, one special teams play and we could be 2-1 right now. Before anyone gets up my butt about "coulda woulda shoulda but we're 0-3" that's not the point I'm trying to make. The point is we just happened to be in a lot of close games last year and and managed to do just enough to win them.
Why that might be, I think it has to do with the turn overs. When we were committing zero and getting 1-3 we win. Now we get 1-3 but we're committing 1-3 as well. Adrian loses two fumbles, Ponder throws a pick, etc. It's never been a good for us to be equal or even down on turnovers.
yezzir wrote:You can't expect much from your defense when they know dam.n well they will be back on the field in 5 plays or less.
Defensive fatigue and frustration is real. It's amazing what a couple nice drives and TD's can do for moral on both sides of the ball.
Please, enough with the "defense is struggling because of the offense" excuse-making. It just doesn't hold up under scrutiny this year. The defense has been allowing more points in the first half than in the second half when, logically, that fatigue and frustration should be most apparent. This particular excuse has become just another way to deflect blame to Ponder, Musgrave and other popular whipping boys. The defense was pitching second half shutouts in the last two games before they gave up game-winning TDs. That doesn't suggest fatigue and frustration were taking their toll. They're just giving up too many points and failing to make stops when it counts most.
Mothman wrote:
Please, enough with the "defense is struggling because of the offense" excuse-making. It just doesn't hold up under scrutiny this year. The defense has been allowing more points in the first half than in the second half when, logically, that fatigue and frustration should be most apparent. This particular excuse has become just another way to deflect blame to Ponder, Musgrave and other popular whipping boys. The defense was pitching second half shutouts in the last two games before they gave up game-winning TDs. That doesn't suggest fatigue and frustration were taking their toll. They're just giving up too many points and failing to make stops when it counts most.
I'm not deflecting blame or making excuses for any side of the ball. All 3 phases have stunk. I'm simply reiterating the fact that a defense usually struggles when they all but know they can't count on offensive scoring and/or competence.
yezzir wrote:I'm not deflecting blame. All 3 phases have stunk. I'm simply reiterating that the fact that a defense usually struggles when they all but know they can't count on offensive scoring.
They're getting a decent amount of offensive scoring. In two of the first 3 games, the offense has given them an early lead and in the other game (@Chicago) Patterson and the STs gave them an early lead. The Vikes have scored 81 points through 3 games, all but 7 of them on offense or special teams. The defense is getting support on the scoreboard. The offense isn't just coming out, scoring once or twice a game and barely putting a drive together.
Raptorman wrote:
It's more simple then most want to make it.
It's only simple because you calculations are erroneous. The defense has scored points which you are attributing to the offense and the offense has given up points which you are attributing to the defense.
Raptorman wrote:
Right. And how many threads are there about the defense? 0. How many about Ponder? 90%. I have seen exactly 3 people talk about the defense being a problem in the last 3 weeks. It's all about Ponder. If and when they replace him with Cassel and the defense is still giving up 32 points a game it will be all about how Cassel isn't what everyone thought he was. I have to think that being behind Brady for three years in New England, Hoyer learned something. You do realize that the Vikings are scoring 4 points more a game then they did last year. Unfortunately, they are giving up 11 more points a game for net loss of 7.
Well why are you wasting so much time defending Ponder? Maybe you should be busy starting threads about our sucky defense xD. 0 threads? Come on man, you're slacking. Then I can come in there and call you a negative Nancy for a change. As it stands, my negative Nancy plate is full with Ponder. If we bench his #### I'll move on to where more bashing is needed.
"Our playoff loss to the Vikings in '87 was probably the most traumatic experience I had in sports." -- Bill Walsh
mondry wrote:Well last year we won like 80% of our games decided by one touch down our less. This year we've lost both of them which is obviously 0%. I'm not sure we WERE much better last year when it really comes down to it but we might have made literally ONE extra play per game. One TD instead of a field goal, one stop for the defense, one special teams play and we could be 2-1 right now. Before anyone gets up my butt about "coulda woulda shoulda but we're 0-3" that's not the point I'm trying to make. The point is we just happened to be in a lot of close games last year and and managed to do just enough to win them.
Why that might be, I think it has to do with the turn overs. When we were committing zero and getting 1-3 we win. Now we get 1-3 but we're committing 1-3 as well. Adrian loses two fumbles, Ponder throws a pick, etc. It's never been a good for us to be equal or even down on turnovers.
1 more 80yd TD run from Peterson? That seems to be the difference so far. He's getting his usual 20 3 yard carries a game, but he's lacking the big one. Except week 1 where he got the big one but then couldn't get the 20 3 yard carries. But we all feared this. Could Ponder step up if AD isn't getting it done? We're finding out.
"Our playoff loss to the Vikings in '87 was probably the most traumatic experience I had in sports." -- Bill Walsh
This. Imagine going to work every day knowing that all of your hard work was going to be handed over to someone who would ruin it, and you get to share the blame. Pretty soon going to work doesn't look so good.
On the rare occasions when Ponder does well and sustains it for any length of time, the D plays well.
I feel sorry for our defense knowing their qb will find a way to lose. It must be really hard going out there at all.
yezzir wrote:
You can't expect much from your defense when they know dam.n well they will be back on the field in 5 plays or less.
Defensive fatigue and frustration is real. It's amazing what a couple nice drives and TD's can do for moral on both sides of the ball.
Webbfann wrote:This. Imagine going to work every day knowing that all of your hard work was going to be handed over to someone who would ruin it, and you get to share the blame. Pretty soon going to work doesn't look so good.
On the rare occasions when Ponder does well and sustains it for any length of time, the D plays well.
I feel sorry for our defense knowing their qb will find a way to lose. It must be really hard going out there at all.
Imagine how the offense must feel knowing the defense can't hold a lead at the end of a game.
The idea that Ponder is to blame for this team's defensive woes is ridiculous.
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