Vikings Message Board.Com

yezzir wrote:Ponder is not NFL QB intelligent. That's all there is to it.

This is a good point, it's kinda how a general sees a battlefield, knows where to position his guys. Ponder doesn't seem to be able to anticipate where a WR will be, instead I think he's focusing on where that WR is. Great QBs can see how the field will unfold, know where the patterns will take his guys, compute it all in a matter of a couple seconds, and have the ball in the right spot.

Doesn't mean he is dumb, just means his eyes and brain can't compute this in the time he needs in the NFL.

I'm a musician, so I can use that too. Some composers can write a full symphony like we write a letter, and it turns out perfect. Me on the other hand need more time to get it all right. Of course I don't write symphonies, I write metal.

Ponder is in his third year now. There can be no excuses . He has made ZERO progress since he was a rookie and came to his first practice ZERO PROGRESS. But the Line has played bad too this year. EVERBODY (Coaches and QBs) & EVERYTHING ( West Coast offense, Bend don't break cover 2) Childress brought in need to go.

He can run a bit.

Let's go option/pistol baby!

Except our OC is a west coast clown so will never happen. We had Ponder go down, Webb filling in in a MUST WIN PLAYOFF GAME, and he calls the same damn game for him he would have for Ponder.

The Breeze wrote: Eliminate the ints at detroit also.

It's crazy how close the difference is between winning and losing.

The Vikings players are just coming up short in critical situations....plain and simple.

Exactly... and sometimes their opponents are coming through in just the right situations. Consider the two play sequence that ended the first half of today's game:

1st and 10 at the CLE 10 yard line: Ponder lobs a perfect pass to Jennings in the right corner of the end zone. Jennings has his hands on it and is in position to make the catch but a Cleveland defender (Skine?) makes a fantastic play to knock the ball out of Jennings' hands. A potential TD becomes an incompletion. The Vikes executed well on the play but a great play by the other team ruined the scoring opportunity.

On the next play, the Vikes failed to execute. Loadholt let his man blow right past him to blast Ponder, force a fumble as Ponder was trying to throw the ball and end the half with a turnover. A complete failure to execute cost the Vikes the opportunity to put more points on the board before halftime.

There were examples like that scattered throughout the game: missed tackles, missed passes, missed blocks, missed opportunities, blown coverages. They simply have to play better than that because, as you said, it's crazy how close the difference is between winning and losing.

The Breeze wrote:The Vikings players are just coming up short in critical situations....plain and simple.

Too bad it's just been happening for 53 straight seasons now.

Since the thread is either/or Ponder or the Oline, its Ponder. He not only cant throw accurately, he proved today he cant think under pressure. And he has NEVER been able to make multiple reads. Its one guy, the first read, and that's it. Doesn't matter who is open. Hes has no touch, no finesse.

And the Oline has been a problem since preseason (so much for all those 'its just preseason, it doesn't matter' arguements). They have only gotten worse since.

Mothman wrote: Exactly... and sometimes their opponents are coming through in just the right situations. Consider the two play sequence that ended the first half of today's game:

1st and 10 at the CLE 10 yard line: Ponder lobs a perfect pass to Jennings in the right corner of the end zone. Jennings has his hands on it and is in position to make the catch but a Cleveland defender (Skine?) makes a fantastic play to knock the ball out of Jennings' hands. A potential TD becomes an incompletion. The Vikes executed well on the play but a great play by the other team ruined the scoring opportunity.

On the next play, the Vikes failed to execute. Loadholt let his man blow right past him to blast Ponder, force a fumble as Ponder was trying to throw the ball and end the half with a turnover. A complete failure to execute cost the Vikes the opportunity to put more points on the board before halftime.

There were examples like that scattered throughout the game: missed tackles, missed passes, missed blocks, missed opportunities, blown coverages. They simply have to play better than that because, as you said, it's crazy how close the difference is between winning and losing.

And while blame seems to be what's for dinner, it's really difficult to establish a logical reason for why things play out the way they do.

The teams temperature seems off in all 3 phases.

Every bit of fortune from last season has been mirrored by misfortune thus far.

IMHO, there is something seriously wrong with the starting offensive line this year. They have looked like absolute crap since the preseason pretty much across the board. Last year we saw inconsistency mainly from the guards, but this year it seems like everyone is getting in on the action and blowing it bigtime at different moments.

So yeah, the blocking wasn't great today, and on many occasions there wasn't much Ponder could do other than take the sack or throw it away. But on other occasions it seemed he left pretty obvious things on the field. Things he should have seen/hit and did not. And given that the QB is the single most visible and important component of the offense, he's got to make those plays.

The entire team is playing the same way - inconsistent. This is from the coaching staff down to the backups. I don't envy Frazier's position at all. He's got his work cut out for him if he's going to get this team on the right track while it still matters.

I'm thinking of picking up Ponder for my Fantasy team, only so I can have the satisfaction of benching him and then cutting him.

To give you an idea of his value, he's only owned by 6% of Yahoo Fantasy Football teams.

The Breeze wrote:And while blame seems to be what's for dinner, it's really difficult to establish a logical reason for why things play out the way they do

LOL! I like that expression.

The teams temperature seems off in all 3 phases.

Every bit of fortune from last season has been mirrored by misfortune thus far.

That covers it as well as anything. As you said, it's difficult to establish a logical reason for why things play out the way they do. I just gave that my best shot in another thread. In a nutshell, I think it comes down to protecting the ball and executing well, playing fundamentally sound football. The Vikes haven't done that consistently in one game this year. For example, they haven't played a game yet where you could say they truly won the battle at the line of scrimmage.

I don't mean to let the coaches off the hook with that statement. It's just the closest I can come to nailing down a singular reason for the 0-3 start. There have been execution breakdowns in every area of the team.

808vikingsfan wrote:
And yet, if Ponder completes those two critical throws to open receivers, the Vikings are 2-1. QB play is an equalizer.

It's a salient point. And if their TE is covered on the fake FG......we could go round and round and cut it up any way we want.
We have who we have...and they do what they do.

0-3 baby!

People still covering for Ponder.

He does his job we win.

He doesn't, we don't.

If this was the real world he'd be fired. But it's not. give him his 3 years.

808vikingsfan wrote:And yet, if Ponder completes those two critical throws to open receivers, the Vikings are 2-1. QB play is an equalizer.

Eh... so is good defense. If the defense had stopped 2 different TEs from scoring game-winning TDs near the end of the last two games, the Vikes would also be 2-1.

There are lots of equalizers in football. QB performance is just one of them. We can all see that Ponder's performances have been problematic (or detrimental or whatever other word you want to use for them) but that's just one problem in a sea of them. Here's another: the Vikes have allowed 96 points in 3 games. 6 of those were scored on an offensive turnover. How many games can a team expect to win when they're allowing an average of 30+ points a game?

The Breeze wrote:And while blame seems to be what's for dinner, it's really difficult to establish a logical reason for why things play out the way they do.

The pattern I see is we allow teams to hang around. Like the Bears last week, we had a chance to put the game out of reach but we ELECTED to play it safe and it bit us in the ####. Today we had the ball twice with the lead in the 4th quarter vs the BROWNS at HOME and didn't do anything to increase our chances of hanging on to the win. The opportunities to win are there, but it's like we're more concerned with not losing and we just end up shooting ourselves in the foot. Even the Lions tried to give us the game and we couldn't cash in. We would be 3-0 if we were more aggressive.

Reignman wrote:The pattern I see is we allow teams to hang around. Like the Bears last week, we had a chance to put the game out of reach but we ELECTED to play it safe and it bit us in the ####. Today we had the ball twice with the lead in the 4th quarter vs the BROWNS at HOME and didn't do anything to increase our chances of hanging on to the win. The opportunities to win are there, but it's like we're more concerned with not losing and we just end up shooting ourselves in the foot. Even the Lions tried to give us the game and we couldn't cash in. We would be 3-0 if we were more aggressive.

It's certainly possible It would be nice to see them try that strategy. It might just lead to more mistakes and another way to lose but at least they'd go down swinging.