Vikings Message Board.Com

Souhan:

"Ponder is an important figure in the Vikings' plans, but he hasn't earned the deference with which the team treats him. Better quarterbacks and higher draft picks than Ponder have been benched during a game. A benching doesn't necessarily damage a career or signal a change of philosophy."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikin ... 72921.html

f favorite throw, we need favorite touchdowns......stupid cp.......whoopie doo he threw a effin ball.....even russell wilson can throw the damn ball but he can actually throw it for touchdowns and create a chance to win the damn game instead of no chance to win....grrrr

GBFavreFan wrote:Another one I forgot was that incredible one handed lefty circus catch of the day by Kyle Rudolph. Unfortunately this was an incredibly simple route that should've been an easy 5 yard pass to the numbers by the QB, but Ponder threw it so far behind Kyle and above his head, Rudolph had to expose his mutant powers before a national audience. Ponder is complete garbage.

My favorite throw as well. It's sickening to think it takes that much effort and ability out of our receivers for a whopping 5 yard pass to be completed. I was one who wanted to see a bit more time given to ponder and perhaps some more weapons but the mistakes and poor throws he made against the Pack were nearly all squarely on his shoulders, he was simply awful again.

808vikingsfan wrote:1) His first pass set the tone for the rest of the game. Great protection. Receiver wide open underneath for an easy 3rd down conversion. What does he do?
He stares down Rudolph and forces into double coverage (throws it way behind too). Look how open Wright is (was). 3 and out.

That was definitely a poor decision.
On that one, it was pretty clear that Ponder was trying to make sure the pass went over the oncoming defender (good idea) but he overcompensated and put too much air under it (bad throw). At least he made the right decision...

I'm not seeing the point here beyond the underthrow. If he made the right decision, what difference does it make that Felton was open?

Thanks for the post and the images!

Mothman wrote: I'm not seeing the point here beyond the underthrow. If he made the right decision, what difference does it make that Felton was open?

Thanks for the post and the images!

I agree that this was an awesome post w/ the images. Very helpful to see what Ponder was doing/thinking on these throws. I also agree with Jim on the underthrow to AD. He made the right decision, he just missed the throw by a mile.

My problem w/ Ponder is that he doesn't have the arm strength to hit bombs (AD throw case in point), so my thinking is he had better make incredible decisions with the ball and have exceptional accuracy in order to compensate that lack. Unfortunately, he has shown that he doesn't have these skills either.

He completely lost his confidence. It's in his head.

Texas Vike wrote:I also agree with Jim on the underthrow to AD. He made the right decision, he just missed the throw by a mile.

I think he was just so taken aback with a guy downfield creating separation he forgot how to throw. You rightly noticed it was thrown behind Peterson, generally in the area where Jenkins would've been running at top speed with a four-second head start.

My problem w/ Ponder is that he doesn't have the arm strength to hit bombs (AD throw case in point)

His throw to Wright was longer than that one to Peterson.

He completely lost his confidence. It's in his head.

Agreed.

dead_poet wrote: I think he was just so taken aback with a guy downfield creating separation he forgot how to throw. You rightly noticed it was thrown behind Peterson, generally in the area where Jenkins would've been running at top speed with a four-second head start.
His throw to Wright was longer than that one to Peterson.
Agreed.

Was his throw to Wright completed? I cannot, for the life of me, remember it. Was it in garbage time? When I say he can't throw the bomb, I mean with consistent accuracy. I see college guys do it better; many, in fact.

Texas Vike wrote:Was his throw to Wright completed? I cannot, for the life of me, remember it.

You can't remember it? It's probably the longest completion of Ponder's Vikings career. It was in the first quarter. You can see it here: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-high ... t-big-gain

Was it in garbage time? When I say he can't throw the bomb, I mean with consistent accuracy. I see college guys do it better; many, in fact.

Either by design or ability he doesn't take many deep shots, so I think it's hard to say definitively that he's horrible at them. He's fully capable of it, though I agree that consistency is an issue, especially with receivers that can't get a step.

Video of some Ponder throws from last season: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVVGRReRfhY -- yes, some are screens, but some are pretty great throws. Again, he's shown (at least to me) that he's just as capable of completing the amazingly good throws as he is the amazingly bad. It's a shame "Bad Ponder" has decided to play quite a bit this season.

dead_poet wrote: You can't remember it? It's probably the longest completion of Ponder's Vikings career. It was in the first quarter. You can see it here: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-high ... t-big-gain
Either by design or ability he doesn't take many deep shots, so I think it's hard to say definitively that he's horrible at them. He's fully capable of it, though I agree that consistency is an issue, especially with receivers that can't get a step.

Video of some Ponder throws from last season: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVVGRReRfhY -- yes, some are screens, but some are pretty great throws. Again, he's shown (at least to me) that he's just as capable of completing the amazingly good throws as he is the amazingly bad. It's a shame "Bad Ponder" has decided to play quite a bit this season.

Oh, I see that I misunderstood. I thought you were referring to the game vs. the Packers. I guess it's indicative that we have to go back in time to find a good long pass that he completed!

I agree that he doesn't take too many deep shots and that the lack of WR separation is partly to blame for that. I still think that his strength HAS to be accuracy with short to mid range throws. If he can do that, we're in business. But lately even that has been horrendous. I hope he can snap out of this slide; I like the kid a lot.

808vikingsfan wrote:I guess my point is that there are receivers open which is different from what I've been hearing from some.

If we're still on the Peterson underthrow, that's where I take issue. He's not a receiver. It's pretty bad when you're sending your starting running back on fly patterns because he's the only one that can get a step on the defender.

808vikingsfan wrote:Point? Does there have to be a point?

LOL! Well, there doesn't have to be a point...

I guess my point is that there are receivers open which is different from what I've been hearing from some. On that particular play, there were two wide open receivers.

Sure, but neither one was a wide receiver. They were both RBs. Most of the criticism about getting open has been directed at the wide receivers.

I don't think anybody is saying there are never open receivers for Ponder (or even open wide receivers), just that there have been a LOT of plays where nobody is open and Ponder has nowhere to go with the ball. It's also safe to say that even when he's had open receivers, Ponder has often missed them (especially lately).

808vikingsfan wrote:He stares down Rudolph and forces into double coverage (throws it way behind too). Look how open Wright is (was). 3 and out.

I'm under the impression that Simpson is also open on this play - open the way nearly all receivers are at this level, one step ahead of the defender. A good throw should pick up the yardage there too. Think of how many Marshall caught last week when the Vikes had guys within a yard of him.

This is why I don't agree with the concept that our receivers are bad. I think they are average. But Ponder makes them look bad because he doesn't get them the ball when they break open.

John_Viveiros wrote:I'm under the impression that Simpson is also open on this play - open the way nearly all receivers are at this level, one step ahead of the defender. A good throw should pick up the yardage there too. Think of how many Marshall caught last week when the Vikes had guys within a yard of him.

Simpson might have been open on that play. He looks open in the picture but the ball is already in the air in that photo so we can't tell if he was open before the pass was thrown. Getting open after the pass is thrown doesn't mean much.

What the still photos on the throw to Peterson DON'T show is Ponder's terrible footwork. He didn't step into the throw. It was a weird thing, like he started to step into the throw, then suddenly sort of hops into the throw. Almost like a mini-TJack hop. It just lollipopped out there with nothing on it. I couldn't believe how far behind Peterson it fell. It was embarrassing. Most high-school quarterbacks can throw it farther than that, and I have to believe Ponder can if he actually steps into the throw.

What the still photo DOES show is that Ponder had plenty of room to step into the throw. My guess ... he almost wet himself when he saw AP open and totally lost his composure and mechanics. Honestly, if you can't make that throw, you don't belong in the NFL.

808vikingsfan wrote:here's a snapshot of the play but its still during the throw. Simpson had inside position during the entire play but he never really turns around until after Ponder throws the ball. It was almost like the ball was going to Rudolph no matter what.

Thanks for photo/info!