Vikings Message Board.Com

That's why I don't like Charlie Johnson, though others seem to defend him. He may not be bad all the time but when he is, he's getting blown up into the QB.

mondry wrote:That's why I don't like Charlie Johnson, though others seem to defend him. He may not be bad all the time but when he is, he's getting blown up into the QB.

Like too many of the Vikes offensive players, he's frustratingly inconsistent.

Mothman wrote: Like too many of the Vikes offensive players, he's frustratingly inconsistent.

One of the thing Packer fans have been complaining about is that Aaron Rodgers has not had the time to make the throws. At the beginning of the year it was all about what was wrong with him. Then someone noticed that their O-line wasn't giving him time to pass. Now, (not comparing Ponder to Rodgers) if Rodgers has a problem with his o-line and his stats go downhill, Ponder will certainly have a problem as well. That being said, I don't think it's all on the O-line, but it is part of the overall problem. Bad decisions by the QB, bad WR's and an O-line that isn't holding up well. The trifecta of how not to bring a second year QB along.

Raptorman wrote: One of the thing Packer fans have been complaining about is that Aaron Rodgers has not had the time to make the throws. At the beginning of the year it was all about what was wrong with him. Then someone noticed that their O-line wasn't giving him time to pass. Now, (not comparing Ponder to Rodgers) if Rodgers has a problem with his o-line and his stats go downhill, Ponder will certainly have a problem as well. That being said, I don't think it's all on the O-line, but it is part of the overall problem. Bad decisions by the QB, bad WR's and an O-line that isn't holding up well. The trifecta of how not to bring a second year QB along.

Exactly! It's the "ineffective passing game" trinity.

The Vikings' line is very soft in the middle, so that Ponder seldom has a pocket to step up into when he begins to get pressure from outside. This has led to a lot of off balance throws, as well as his being flushed from the pocket early. It's not just the much maligned Brandon Fusco and Charlie Johnson, either. John Sullivan is an undersized center who has a tendency to get walked back into the quarterback.

Mothman wrote:
That will probably draw a lot of anger and sarcasm but he has a point. Ponder has done all of the above. The question is, can he get to a point where he's doing it consistently? He's probably running out of time...

Sorry, but I have given up on this guy. And I honestly don't even think he has all the tools.

Yes, I have seen him throw some nice passes -- displaying some degree of arm strength and accuracy on particular throws. But his accuracy, as a general matter, is near the bottom of the league, and his arm strength generally hasn't impressed me either for an NFL quarterback.

Yes, I have seen him make some nice runs. In fact, that's probably his best feature. But there are guys who play his position that can run rings around him as a scrambler/runner.

Yes, I have seen him make some nice decisions with the ball. But generally, he appears to make terrible decisions with the ball. In fact, in some games, I marvel at just how horrid his decision making has been.

When people say that Christian Ponder has all the tools, I can't help thinking that so does Joe Webb -- if by that, we mean that he too has made nice throws, nice runs and nice decisions. At least Webb has blazing speed. What does Ponder have? (Besides a first round draft selection that is hanging around this franchise's neck like an albatross.)

From my perspective, Ponder doesn't excel at anything. His running is pretty good, but he's no RG3 or, for that matter, a Joe Webb. His accuracy is poor -- really poor. His arm strength isn't exactly going to rival Rodgers or Cutler, to say the least, and he absolutely stinks when it comes to the mental part of the game. But other than that, Mrs. Lincoln ...

I think the comparisons to Tavaris Jackson are inapposite. TJ wasn't selected in the first round. That made him relatively expendable. Ponder, who inexplicably was selected in the first half of the first round (despite having a nondescript college career), will be much more difficult to jettison. The Vikes have been hyping him as the QB of the future, and until we have seen multiple QBs excel in their rookie years the team had been suggesting that Ponder just needs more seasoning. Rubbish. The real problem isn't simply that he is capable of stinking, but that he just isn't very talented. But the Vikes can't admit that because they were the fools who reached to take him in the first half of the first round.

Yes, the team was 4-1 with him, but that was fool's gold. The league figured out how limited he is in his passing range, he lost the ability to utilize the league's best 1-2 punch (once Percy went out), and now, we are seeing the real Christian Ponder. Watching him squander a 210 yard rushing performance by AD should have been the last straw ... but as I suspected, we're going to need to watch Friday the 13th Part 11 before it's all over. Oh well -- I always have been an aficionado of bizarre horror shows.

A draft reach.
A mediocre talent.
And a head case as a QB.
But hey, the guy dates attractive women. You've got to give him that.

DanAS wrote: Sorry, but I have given up on this guy. And I honestly don't even think he has all the tools.

Yes, I have seen him throw some nice passes -- displaying some degree of arm strength and accuracy on particular throws. But his accuracy, as a general matter, is near the bottom of the league, and his arm strength generally hasn't impressed me either for an NFL quarterback.

Yes, I have seen him make some nice runs. In fact, that's probably his best feature. But there are guys who play his position that can run rings around him as a scrambler/runner.

Yes, I have seen him make some nice decisions with the ball. But generally, he appears to make terrible decisions with the ball. In fact, in some games, I marvel at just how horrid his decision making has been.

When people say that Christian Ponder has all the tools, I can't help thinking that so does Joe Webb -- if by that, we mean that he too has made nice throws, nice runs and nice decisions. At least Webb has blazing speed. What does Ponder have? (Besides a first round draft selection that is hanging around this franchise's neck like an albatross.)

From my perspective, Ponder doesn't excel at anything. His running is pretty good, but he's no RG3 or, for that matter, a Joe Webb. His accuracy is poor -- really poor. His arm strength isn't exactly going to rival Rodgers or Cutler, to say the least, and he absolutely stinks when it comes to the mental part of the game. But other than that, Mrs. Lincoln ...

I think the comparisons to Tavaris Jackson are inapposite. TJ wasn't selected in the first round. That made him relatively expendable. Ponder, who inexplicably was selected in the first half of the first round (despite having a nondescript college career), will be much more difficult to jettison. The Vikes have been hyping him as the QB of the future, and until we have seen multiple QBs excel in their rookie years the team had been suggesting that Ponder just needs more seasoning. Rubbish. The real problem isn't simply that he is capable of stinking, but that he just isn't very talented. But the Vikes can't admit that because they were the fools who reached to take him in the first half of the first round.

Yes, the team was 4-1 with him, but that was fool's gold. The league figured out how limited he is in his passing range, he lost the ability to utilize the league's best 1-2 punch (once Percy went out), and now, we are seeing the real Christian Ponder. Watching him squander a 210 yard rushing performance by AD should have been the last straw ... but as I suspected, we're going to need to watch Friday the 13th Part 11 before it's all over. Oh well -- I always have been an aficionado of bizarre horror shows.

A draft reach.
A mediocre talent.
And a head case as a QB.
But hey, the guy dates attractive women. You've got to give him that.

GREAT POST . I agree 100%

DanAS wrote:hey, the guy dates attractive women. You've got to give him that.

LOL! Indeed, he's earned it.

Nice post, Dan. I could quibble with a few points (for example, I think Ponder's college career was better than nondescript) and I haven't completely given up on Ponder yet but a few more performances like he had last week and I'll be there. I think you nailed it when you said he doesn't excel at anything and unless that changes fast (and dramatically), I don't see how the Vikes can even consider going into another season with Ponder as the unchallenged starter.

Having just watched the Bears game, I have to say that I didn't notice any growth from Ponder. He still sucks.

Next stop, Nike vision camp.

S197 wrote:Next stop, Nike vision camp.

Just spit coffee all over my keyboard...

soflavike wrote:Having just watched the Bears game, I have to say that I didn't notice any growth from Ponder. He still sucks.

I dunno, man.

He threw for 91 yards. Pretty damn impressive.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: I dunno, man.

He threw for 91 yards. Pretty damn impressive.

He handed the ball off to Adrian Peterson a lot. I call that growth.

I'm also going to say this: Giving up on Ponder right now is virtually a pointless endeavor. You're just emoting. For one, we don't have the kind of draft pick that I can say will be high enough to pick a guy who (on paper) gives the Vikings any more of a chance than Ponder. Even if they did draft a guy in the later rounds, it's a project.

They'll have to shell out a LOT for a guy who is probably not that much better. Alex Smith? Maybe Flacco can get his career going again if he hits the market? Other than that, there's Campbell and Stanton, two solid backup quarterbacks. If they're willing to lose a lot more than they should in the process, maybe they can pry Matt Flynn away from Seattle. Then there are guys like Vick.

This is a pretty bad time to go a new direction with the quarterback position. It'll probably be a couple years before there's another really deep quarterback draft class again. There aren't any over the hill ex-Super Bowl winners/contenders hanging around who've been replaced by a younger model and want another crack at it. Those are the types of veteran quarterbacks that the Vikings have historically done well with (well, with the notable exception of McNabb). Then again, those successes have all been in different systems. Who knows if that's the right direction either.

I see the Vikings, regardless of the emoness of a lot of our fellow fans about Ponder, giving the guy one more year and signing or trading for one of the aforementioned free agents as insurance. I suppose they might be in a position to roll the dice on Matt Barkley, now that his stock has fallen (along with just about every other quarterback in this draft). Geno Smith seems to be the best pick, and he might even drop to the bottom of the first considering how scouts have been talking about him.

Rus wrote:I'm also going to say this: Giving up on Ponder right now is virtually a pointless endeavor. You're just emoting.

Giving up on Mr. Suck is not a pointless endeavor. It is facing a harsh reality and moving in a better direction.