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Re: Offensive line rankings
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:23 pm
by Eli
Can anyone explain why Fusco and Schwartz are still splitting snaps at right guard, with Fusco getting the bulk of the action?
Re: Offensive line rankings
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:28 pm
by dead_poet
Eli wrote:Can anyone explain why Fusco and Schwartz are still splitting snaps at right guard, with Fusco getting the bulk of the action?
Coaching staff likes Fusco. Likes his physicality. Plus, he was the only viable starter that was healthy when Schwartz had his surgery. Now Schwartz is finally healthy and up to game speed. They are rotating in Schwartz to get more film on him to see if they like what he brings to the table in the short and long-term. After reading Pelissero's reviews and notes on PFF, it seems he's handling himself quite competently. Additionally, supplanting Fusco during the season does send the message they aren't sold on him. One of the knocks against him is his confidence. Pretty soon the coaching staff needs to decide whether or not to make a permanent change, if nothing else for continuity sake. Like Ponder, they are confident in Fusco and giving him the chance to succeed while trying to evaluate Fusco since they really haven't had that ability since he's been signed.
Re: Offensive line rankings
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:11 pm
by mondry
Mothman wrote:
I'm not sure why you wouldn't take a tackle that high. It's an important position and it's not as if quality left tackles are easy to find.
The run blocking has been very good so i can't really quibble with that grade. However, if the Vikings o-line is the 11th best pass blocking unit in the NFL, I feel sorry for the QBs playing behind the other 21 lines!
I could see how we rate out at 11th though. It seems at times we've actually been pass blocking pretty well, but when they've blown assignments or have made mistakes it's been extremely obvious like a rusher coming in free. I'm sure the mistakes stand out quite a bit. Not saying they definitely earned that 11th rank but that might be part of it.
dead_poet wrote:
No doubt. Claiborne has been pretty good though (better earlier in the year pre-injury than lately). At this point I'm really glad we passed on Blackmon (even though QB play might be partially to blame for his disappointing season). Kalil should be a major contributor and staple of the line for years. To me, Charlie is still the weakest link (even if Fusco seems to be trying his best to beat him for that "honor" as of late). Kind of hope we re-sign Schwartz after the season. He's been playing pretty well from limited action. Hopefully Fusco can turn things around.
Yeah man, I'm a pretty big Charlie Johnson hater, probably unjustified but like Jim said we don't seem to be the 11th best pass blocking unit but when I remember them making big mistakes I seem to remember CJ being at the center of it so he stands out.
Re: Offensive line rankings
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:23 pm
by Cliff
mondry wrote:
Yeah man, I'm a pretty big Charlie Johnson hater, probably unjustified but like Jim said we don't seem to be the 11th best pass blocking unit but when I remember them making big mistakes I seem to remember CJ being at the center of it so he stands out.
One thing that I would point out about the pass blocking grade is that it isn't calculated simply by the number of hurries or sacks ... they're actually watching tape to figure out why a hurry or a sack happened.
In that regard, I think it's important to remember the thing that kills the Vikings passing game is a three-headed monster. Oline breakdown sometimes, lack of WR separation sometimes, and Ponder holding the ball too long in some cases.
When you consider the Oline is probably only responsible for 1/3 of the problem, it's easy to see how they could be ranked higher than you might think.
Re: Offensive line rankings
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:33 pm
by Eli
dead_poet wrote:
Coaching staff likes Fusco. Likes his physicality.
That was the party line at the start of the year. But now we've seen the guy get tossed around like rag doll. He's been bull rushed into the teeth of the QB more times than I care to remember, but just as likely to be run around like he was standing still.
Plus, he was the only viable starter that was healthy when Schwartz had his surgery. Now Schwartz is finally healthy and up to game speed.
Finally? He's been playing a significant number of snaps for at least the past four or five weeks and outperforming Fusco in every facet of the game.
Re: Offensive line rankings
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:36 pm
by Mothman
Cliff wrote:One thing that I would point out about the pass blocking grade is that it isn't calculated simply by the number of hurries or sacks ... they're actually watching tape to figure out why a hurry or a sack happened.
In that regard, I think it's important to remember the thing that kills the Vikings passing game is a three-headed monster. Oline breakdown sometimes, lack of WR separation sometimes, and Ponder holding the ball too long in some cases.
Good point and I'd emphasize that it's not just o-line breakdowns but
pass blocking breakdowns. The TEs and RBs have had their share of missed blocks too.
When you consider the Oline is probably only responsible for 1/3 of the problem, it's easy to see how they could be ranked higher than you might think.
I imagine it's a cumulative grade for the season too.
The pass protection was absolutely lousy against Arizona and Tampa Bay and it wasn't much better against Seattle. However, it improved against Detroit so maybe, like Ponder, the line picked it up a bit. There's a probably a connection there...
Re: Offensive line rankings
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:52 pm
by dead_poet
Eli wrote:That was the party line at the start of the year. But now we've seen the guy get tossed around like rag doll.
I guess I haven't seen that. The biggest knock on him at the moment is looking confused at the second level. But he's certainly not performing as well as he did at the beginning of the season.
Finally? He's been playing a significant number of snaps for at least the past four or five weeks and outperforming Fusco in every facet of the game.
I suppose this depends on what you think "significant" means. Here are their snaps (Fusco:Schwartz)
Week 10: 49:21
Week 9: 37:21
Week 8: 45:15
Week 7: 44: 8
Week 6: 73:11
I haven't watched them side-by-side, so I'm just going off of what I read. If the performance/talent gap was significant I'd imagine we'd be seeing a lot more of Schwartz. As it stands, he's getting about half (or less) than Fusco and handling himself well.
Re: Offensive line rankings
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:21 pm
by mondry
Is that normal? It seems kind of weird to me... I figured it'd be like 70:0
Re: Offensive line rankings
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:26 pm
by S197
Fusco is similar to Ponder in that he can go very hot and very cold. There were plays where Suh was making him look silly but on the flip side, he made a very key block on the long AD touchdown.
Re: Offensive line rankings
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:20 am
by mondry
S197 wrote:Fusco is similar to Ponder in that he can go very hot and very cold. There were plays where Suh was making him look silly but on the flip side, he made a very key block on the long AD touchdown.
Hopefully he is just inexperienced and raw then and the coaches want him to learn rather than he sucks and doesn't have the physical talent.
Re: Offensive line rankings
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:19 pm
by dead_poet
More evidence our offensive line is improving (run-blocking anyway)
The Vikings have improved their offensive line which has caused Adrian Peterson’s yards before contact to increase from 1.6 to 2.3. He has also improved after contact from 3.1 yards to 3.9.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... s-week-13/
Re: Offensive line rankings
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:19 pm
by mansquatch
The guards need to improve, I could see CJ getting replaced, but overall I think this group has really improved. Definitely enough that they can spend higher picks on other areas of need. I’ll be shocked if they do not resign Loadholt, he isn’t perfect, but for this team his beastly run blocking is just what is needed. Despite all the QB issues, the front office and coaches have done an excellent job of turning our two biggest weaknesses in 2011 into sold contributors. The secondary isn’t all the way there, but I’d say our OL is on its way to becoming a team strength.
Re: Offensive line rankings
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:29 pm
by Mothman
mansquatch wrote:The guards need to improve, I could see CJ getting replaced, but overall I think this group has really improved. Definitely enough that they can spend higher picks on other areas of need. I’ll be shocked if they do not resign Loadholt, he isn’t perfect, but for this team his beastly run blocking is just what is needed. Despite all the QB issues, the front office and coaches have done an excellent job of turning our two biggest weaknesses in 2011 into sold contributors. The secondary isn’t all the way there, but I’d say our OL is on its way to becoming a team strength.
I think they're on their way, depending on their ability to re-sign Schwartz and Loadholt. They need to keep improving in pass protection but they've become a pretty potent run-blocking unit. I think depth is the main concern at this point, although they should also look to upgrade at guard if possible.
Re: Offensive line rankings
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:11 am
by dead_poet
Ranking the 2012 Offensive Lines
9. Minnesota Vikings (7)
PB – 13th, RB – 6th, PEN – 8th
Stud: It might not be the coolest thing to say, but there’s no denying that over the past two years the best center in the league has been
John Sullivan (+27.3).
Dud: The Vikings made a big mistake in keeping
Brandon Fusco (-11.
[/color] in the starting lineup when they had better options on the bench.
Summary: The only criticism of this line is that Geoff Schwartz didn’t get nearly enough playing time. That aside, what more could you want from this line? They kept their quarterback upright, and in Sullivan and Phil Loadholt they have two of the most punishing run blockers in the league at their positions. Trending upwards, with rookie left tackle Matt Kalil being exactly as advertised.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... e-lines/3/
Re: Offensive line rankings
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:50 pm
by HardcoreVikesFan
Well, I mean, I kept pointing out all season that Geoff was five times the player Brando Fusco was. I hope we resign Geoff and start him. Fusco is a solid backup but not a starter.