Vikings Message Board.Com

John_Viveiros wrote:This is the time when you start to ask whether teams have figured out Ponder, or our whole offense.

So which is the real Ponder? The one we saw in weeks 1-4, or the one in the last three games and all of last season (other than the Denver game). I'm starting to get that "Joe Webb" feeling again. He can't be worse than the QB we saw today.

The real Ponder is the one we've seen the entire time and everything we've seen is part of the process of developing a QB, especially when a team doesn't land a rare, elite talent with the first or second pick of the draft (and those guys tend to have their share of bad games too). We all know young, developing QBs make bad decisions, have bad games, turn the ball over, etc. and none of that ends automatically after their first season.

As for Webb, maybe he can't be worse than what we saw today but I doubt he can do what we've seen Ponder do when he's on top of his game either and opening this winning team up to a huge QB controversy is just about the dumbest move Frazier could make right now. It doesn't matter anyway. The team has made their commitment to Ponder. We're going to see the growing pains, the good games and the bad and hopefully, when it's all over, the team will have a viable long-term QB rather than finding themselves back at square one.

Damned ugly win. As well as Peterson ran, the Vikings could only muster two first downs in the second half and were 1 for 10 on 3rd down. Ponder was absolutely pathetic. By the time this season is done, the Vikings may have a higher priority going into the draft than WR.

We are just lucky Ponder didnt hurt us worse (like giving the Cards more points).

Just read the offensive stats on NFL.com. Wow. Fortunate to get a win today. Tampa game looks tough because that team can put up points. Go Vikes!

I'm gonna have a hard time sticking up for Ponder if he keeps this up. A W is a W though, no matter how dirty our passing offense was.

Really wish we still had Sage. I know that sounds pathetic, but it's the truth. Ponder is just brutal. His CEILING is game manager, Trent Dilfer type. And that's his ceiling, he he starts 5 years and reaches his full potential. Right now, he's just bad.

Can't believe this team is 5-2. It's almost bad because the record masks that there are serious issues with the QB, OC, and coaching staff in general.

Any QB other than Skelton and Vikes lose at home by double digits.

Play calling was horrible...Peterson ran all over them and yet they kept trying to throw when Ponder was obviously having a bad game. Did Harvin even touch the ball in the second half? How do you take your 2 best play makers out of the game plan?? And what was with the drive right at the end of the half??

What a frustrating game to watch! At least they held on and won...

I'd like to point something out: I remember a team in 2010 that was having a lot of troubles, fans weren't very happy week to week losing to teams they shouldn't be losing to and playing under their level. All the sudden the playoffs hit and they go to the Superbowl a man named Aaron Rodgers wins Super Bowl MVP. That's one thing I know we have with our Vikings; I can see Ponder all the sudden hitting a spark at the right time and we just plow through the playoffs.

Optimistic? Hell to the yes. But hey it's not totally out of the question.

PurpleKoolaid wrote: Im not criticizing Ponder for his short throws, im saying thats about all he is capable of doing. And any NFL QB could do it. We could put in Webb and not miss a beat, and prolly have less turnovers. And no im not saying put in Webb. Im saying Ponder is just barely the better QB. When Ponder starts hitting Simpson on stride on deep routes, or PH, who can burn just about anyone Ill give Ponder the praise he deserves.
heck right now if he just uses his head i will be a little less upset.

Making deep throws isn't just about the QB. You need an OL that can hold up long enough for WRs to get open (and with what we've had that may be easier said then done). You need a WR who can get down field and get separation from the defender and you need chemistry between the QB/WR.

ranskal wrote:Play calling was horrible...Peterson ran all over them and yet they kept trying to throw when Ponder was obviously having a bad game. Did Harvin even touch the ball in the second half? How do you take your 2 best play makers out of the game plan?? And what was with the drive right at the end of the half??

What a frustrating game to watch! At least they held on and won...

Sometimes the defense takes a player out of the game plan. I listened to the game and caught highlights on TV but I'm guessing the Cardinals were focused on taking Harvin away, just like the Vikings focused on taking Fitzgerald out of the game.

Good defense tends to make any playcalling look horrible, although I don't doubt some of it was bad (or at least questionable).

If the Cardinals were putting 8 in the box in the second half after being gashed by Peterson in the first half, that might explain why Musgrave was calling passing plays. Without seeing the game, I don't know, but that would be my theory.

Some tweets to ponder (pun intended):

@VikingsNow: Christian Ponder was 1-for-7 for four yards in the second half. Finished with a 35.5 passer rating. #Vikings

@espn_nfcnblog: Ponder's eight completions tied for fewest in #Vikings history for a QB with at least 15 attempts in game.

PurpleKoolaid wrote:Ponder sucks. I know its only his second year, doesnt make him suck any less. Its like Tjoke all over again. People defended him just like Ponder. He just wasnt cut out to be a QB no matter how much Viking fans wanted him to be. Ponder gets worse with time. The short passes to PH dont count, Webb could manage that, and the game, as well as Ponder, and Webb shouldnt even be listed as a QB IMO.

The D did well. When they had to, they came up big just about every time (except when they went prevent). I Love the sacks. Smith is the pick of the draft IMO. Ponder handed AZ their other score on a platter.

Walsh is $ He doesnt even give out ST a chance to make a mistake.

Musgrave is horrible at play calling. HORRILE.

Someone need to tell Fraizer hes a HC and get this team some discipline. Too many penalties.

I usually do not agree with your posts, but in this case I will.
Ponder threw 2 absolutely horrible passes that were picked off. He really did look like a 3rd rounder in his first start today. Just for the record, I am a Ponder guy. I watched the game at BWW with the sound on the Packers game, so I only have the eyeball test to assess the game.
Everyone played pretty well with the exception of Ponder. Today they won in spite of him.
One thing I don't get, and it has been recently talked about, is why no deep passes? Simpson seems to be a master at getting the PI call on deep passes and if it's working, why not continue to press and get the extra backs out of the box?
I had the same feeling today, it's almost like having Tjoke back there throwing passes less than 7-10 yards. It seems like he (Ponder) is trying to catch up to all the other QB's interception ratios.
I seriously thought that they should have benched him after the second pick. He needs to settle down. I mean he was playing with a 14 point lead for cripes sakes!!
I also thought it was the poorest gamecalling of the season. Way too predictable.
Conclusion: Either Ponder is now gunshy to throwing a pick and wont pull the trigger, or the receivers are really not getting separation and/or the routes are bad.
Seems like the chemistry is just not there between the coordinator/QB/receivers. Hell, even Matt Ryan used to chuck it down the field on a regular basis when he was a rookie.

I missed the first half but after watching the offensive effort in the 2nd half......(if you can call it that) ....... the ONLY way to describe Ponder and the offense in general is "inept". That was beyond bad!!!!

Does anyone know the 2nd half totals: 1st downs, Time of Possession, Offensive plays in the 2nd half, 3rd down conversions ect ?? It had to be so one sided that its actually hard to believe we won !

And what is Simpsons role in this offense?? If he was brought in here to stretch the field, dont you at least have to attempt to throw the ball his way more than once or twice a game?? Is that Ponders fault or is it the O.C. not trusting Ponder to make the throw?

I certainly dont know why this team looks so anemic offensively but after 7 games its pretty clear that we have 2 options: Harvin and A.P. and if opposing defenses can scheme to stop those 2.....this team cant win because they wont be able to score.

dkoby wrote:I usually do not agree with your posts, but in this case I will.
Ponder threw 2 absolutely horrible passes that were picked off. He really did look like a 3rd rounder in his first start today. Just for the record, I am a Ponder guy. I watched the game at BWW with the sound on the Packers game, so I only have the eyeball test to assess the game.
Everyone played pretty well with the exception of Ponder. Today they won in spite of him.
One thing I don't get, and it has been recently talked about, is why no deep passes? Simpson seems to be a master at getting the PI call on deep passes and if it's working, why not continue to press and get the extra backs out of the box?

The Vikings (coaches and players) have said more than once this season that deep passes are being called but the plays often don't work out. I'd be willing to bet several of the plays in this game (and other games) where the protection breaks down and Ponder scrambles were plays intended to go deep. That and the lack of deep receiving threats on the field most of the season should provide two very big clues as to why we don't see more deep passing from the Vikings.

There's no point in throwing the deep ball if it isn't open and there's no point in calling it a lot if the line can't protect the QB long enough for the play to develop.

Conclusion: Either Ponder is now gunshy to throwing a pick and wont pull the trigger, or the receivers are really not getting separation and/or the routes are bad.

It's really not a mystery. The receivers have struggled to get separation ALL season. The Vikings have been playing with a star (Percy Harvin) and a bunch of journeyman at WR. The OL has improved but they still struggle in pass protection. Either Simpson will step up and become the deep threat they hope he is or the Vikes simply aren't going to have much of a deep passing game this year.

Eli wrote:Damned ugly win. As well as Peterson ran, the Vikings could only muster two first downs in the second half and were 1 for 10 on 3rd down. Ponder was absolutely pathetic. By the time this season is done, the Vikings may have a higher priority going into the draft than WR.

You got that right. Did TJoke have a game that bad? Even when Poder has played his best I just don't see that "It" factor in him. We need more than just a game manager. Ever since the ravens won the Superbowl the " Game Manager " QB term gets alot of mention but i haven't seen that QB type when a SB since.