Vikings Message Board.Com

Colinito wrote:Not all hip-hop is soulless. Check out the Tupac song "Unconditional Love," which is just one example of the beauty, wonder, and talent in some hip-hop. But most the #### on the radio sucks.
I seriously can't listen to the song without crying. Although it reminds me of a friend I lost, but still....almost too much soul.

I'll just keep my thoughts about Tupac to myself so as not to ruffle any feathers. We can agree to to disagree, as it is largely subjective anyway.

Colinito wrote:And please, let's not lump 70s and 80s rock together! That's 20 years right there, and peak 1973 Grateful Dead does not belong alongside Warrant and Scorpions and Def Leppard, or whatever. 80s rock, in my opinion, was awful, and even the cool 60s artists (like Dylan, Moody Blues, etc.) turned crappy in the 80s. It was that stenchy it could ruin Dylan's sound. It wasn't til the 90s that Dylan was actually good again.

A lot of my favorite music was produced in the '80s but it seems strange to me to refer to rock by decade, as if there is some sort of uniformity to the music produced in each decade. I'm sure you'd agree that every decade in rock history featured a wide variety of artists and styles and I think every decade has produced some good music. Some '80s rock was awful but so was some '70s rock, '60s rock, '90s, rock, etc.

Dylan was in the Traveling Wilburys in the '80s and I really liked those albums.

Jim

Colinito, why did you hijack this into an 80's music hate thread?

If you can't appreciate other people's tastes, please go live your own memories elsewhere.

Minniman wrote:Colinito, why did you hijack this into an 80's music hate thread?

If you can't appreciate other people's tastes, please go live your own memories elsewhere.

I don't think he intended to hijack the thread. he just made a comment that drew a reaction and the discussion took it's own course, as internet discussions tend to do. Just steer it back...

Regarding your original point: I understand the nostalgia but the British influence on our culture has continued, it's nature has just changed a bit. Britain still produces plenty of music and we can get it here. Some of it charts, some of it doesn't but it's out there, just as it has been for decades. British television has a huge impact on American TV. There's nothing like Monty Python but then, the Pythons were unique. Occasionally, a British show still emerges that becomes popular here but the biggest influence of British television on American viewing audiences has been in re-packaged shows. The most popular show in America, American Idol, began as Britain's Pop Idol. The Office was re-packaged for U.S. audiences and in the '90s, Whose Line Is It Anyway? was re-worked for this country. IIRC, several hit prime time game shows have been re-formatted from British TV.

It's not the same as watching some of that British TV '"straight" in the '70s. It had a different feel then but the cultural exchange is still going on and, as you mentioned, it's still possible to watch British TV "straight" on BBC America.

Jim

I think a lot of the appeal of the British rock scene was always in its rebellion. The fact of the matter is, there is nothing left to rebel against. England isn't "England" anymore. So now we just get crappy dance beats from across the pond. Marx was wrong, the thudding baseline (and a little E) have become the opiate of the masses.

America, as a newer nation has had less of a stodgy, fixed culture to rebel against in a sense, but whatever cultural tradition was left was obliterated in the 60's. Now that even rap has become mainstream (which is a cultural tragedy in and of itself) what is left to rebel against? We have raised a generation untethered from standards, save for their one golden rule..."do not judge me". We have produced a generation of shallow thinking, lobotomized youths. (Give us dance beats! Give us dance beats!) who's "deepest" thoughts are probably related to penetration.

Of course, we shared a radical change in our society with the Brits and we shared our films, music etc. I think thats why the British sound resonated here. We could relate to it. And now we find ourselves in the same situation. Where the rebillion has been victorious, traditions marginalized, and our societies are guided primarily by what remains--feelings. What a shock that these folks would produce a shallow, cynical, valueless crop of kids. The movie "The Queen" is worth watching as an example of just how radically British society has changed in the span of a couple generations.

*I use generalizations and recognize them as generalizations. Please don't feel obligated to point out that there are exceptions as it is already noted.

TrenchGoon wrote:America, as a newer nation has had less of a stodgy, fixed culture to rebel against in a sense, but whatever cultural tradition was left was obliterated in the 60's. Now that even rap has become mainstream (which is a cultural tragedy in and of itself) what is left to rebel against? We have raised a generation untethered from standards, save for their one golden rule..."do not judge me". We have produced a generation of shallow thinking, lobotomized youths. (Give us dance beats! Give us dance beats!) who's "deepest" thoughts are probably related to penetration.

That sounds an awful lot like what was being said about the kids who embraced that crazy, danceable rock and roll in the first place, not to mention the next generation who loved it in the '60s, the "me" generation of the '70s and so forth.

Ultimately, protest songs aside, adulthood is probably all rock has ever really rebelled against. Rock and roll rebels either stop making music or continue making it and become the dreaded establishment that the next generation rejects.

Jim

Minniman wrote:Colinito, why did you hijack this into an 80's music hate thread?

If you can't appreciate other people's tastes, please go live your own memories elsewhere.

Another one with hard feelings. I made one comment, and my first post was in direct response to your OP. If Vikings Machine wasn't crying about it it would have ended there. Stop being so sensitive. So I hate the #### Scorpions, so what?

Trench Goon, what is wrong with music being danceable? My favorite music is dancy music with good lyrics and original/interesting composition. Too many talented artists, IMO, espouse catchy "pop" sensibilities in trying to be uber-artistic or something. The best bands (The Beatles, for one) were able to make catchy, dancy music that was also meaningful and deep.

Colinito wrote: Another one with hard feelings. I made one comment, and my first post was in direct response to your OP. If Vikings Machine wasn't crying about it it would have ended there. Stop being so sensitive. So I hate the #### Scorpions, so what?

Trench Goon, what is wrong with music being danceable? My favorite music is dancy music with good lyrics and original/interesting composition. Too many talented artists, IMO, espouse catchy "pop" sensibilities in trying to be uber-artistic or something. The best bands (The Beatles, for one) were able to make catchy, dancy music that was also meaningful and deep.

Nice post, your sure to make plenty of friends with the attitude you have displayed here lately.

Now now... let's all play nice and talk about music, Brits and scorpions.

Jim

I think much of the disconnect has to do with the slipping influence of Europe in general. Is it still a force politically, culturally, economically? Absolutely. But Europe does not carry the same cachet as it once did, at least here in the States.

I think you may have it partially pegged with the end of the Cold War. I believe the recent political climate in the US has also had a remarkably chilling effect both with Europeans not digging the States like they used to and more folks in the States not digging the European vibe. It seems like we have slammed a couple doors shut over the past few years.

With the economic and cultural rise of China, India and Japan and the influx of immigrants from Central America, Asia and Africa to the US, I think you also see more cultural influences competing for the ever more limited attention span of John or Jane Q. Public.

Maybe it's just the sentimental attachment of having grown up with those influences from Europe that are causing us to miss them. The influences are still there, but they are definitely no longer the only voice shouting into the perceived cultural black hole of the US. Now there are tons of folks all over the world yelling their heads off!

I have yet to see anything as consistently hilarious as what has come over from the BBC over the years (Monty Python, Rowan Atkinson, Peter Cook, French and Saunders, the Young Ones), I have yet to experience anything as melodramatically and melodically earth-pounding as Rammstein (I like to think Beethoven would have loved that band), and I have yet to hear anything as sublime as U2, the Beatles or Eric Clapton's guitar.

I'm just a sentimental fool.

BGM

BGM wrote:With the economic and cultural rise of China, India and Japan and the influx of immigrants from Central America, Asia and Africa to the US, I think you also see more cultural influences competing for the ever more limited attention span of John Q. Public.

Maybe it's just the sentimental attachment of having grown up with those influences from Europe that are causing us to miss them. The influences are still there, but they are definitely no longer the only voice shouting into the perceived cultural black hole of the US. Now there are tons of folks all over the world yelling their heads off!

Excellent point. Japanese culture, in particular, seems to be very influential with today's youth.

Jim

Colinito wrote:Not all hip-hop is soulless. Check out the Tupac song "Unconditional Love," which is just one example of the beauty, wonder, and talent in some hip-hop. But most the #### on the radio sucks.

I may be an old doofus, but I don't see soul or passion or, I'm sorry, even talent in Tupac's music or lyrics. Maybe it's the fact I have no experiences that allow me to connect to his music. Maybe it's the fact that he (and many of the current crop of rappers) glorifies a millionaire lifestyle that is ridiculously out of touch with the streets and out of reach of the audience who listens to his music, while still trying to maintain some OG connection with the streets. It's the sad intersection of credibility and excess.

Does rap cause kids to join gangs or become thugs? No more so than metal caused kids to drink to excess and wear denim jackets, or no more than grunge caused kids to be morose and do heroin. But music has a really incisive way of reflecting, focusing on and magnifying the dysfunction in society, for better and for worse.

BGM

Another one with hard feelings. I made one comment, and my first post was in direct response to your OP. If Vikings Machine wasn't crying about it it would have ended there. Stop being so sensitive. So I hate the #### Scorpions, so what?

So what?

Because this isn't a thread about who likes or dislikes what music. It is a thread about remembering good times and times changing.

I can certainly get into a thread about likes and dislikes of music, but this is not the place. It isn't about being sensitive, its about having a little respect for others who wish to discuss other topics without having the topic hijacked into something else. Your first reply was a nice post really, but it diverged with some aside remarks in your next post and rolled down hill from there.

Minniman wrote: So what?

Because this isn't a thread about who likes or dislikes what music. It is a thread about remembering good times and times changing.

Now it's becoming a thread about hijacking threads.

Come on, Minniman, this is just silly. How is complaining about a thread you started veering off-topic helping to get it back on-topic? This is the Vikings Bar! Bar talk tends to ramble so as Robert Plant might sing "Ramble on!"

There's nothing worth fighting about in this thread, fellas. Just tip a glass and get on with the discussion.



Jim

Minniman wrote: So what?

Because this isn't a thread about who likes or dislikes what music. It is a thread about remembering good times and times changing.

I can certainly get into a thread about likes and dislikes of music, but this is not the place. It isn't about being sensitive, its about having a little respect for others who wish to discuss other topics without having the topic hijacked into something else. Your first reply was a nice post really, but it diverged with some aside remarks in your next post and rolled down hill from there.

As an American, relating my dislike of a German band in regard to my original statement that I don't believe German music/TV/film has ever been very popular here, perhaps it does fit.

I believe my statement in my second post was "Now that's what I'm talking about! "

And if VikingMachine wasn't a baby I wouldn't have continued, and if you wouldn't have cried about it I woudn't have continued even further. And now I am very happy that the thread has veered off course, because it really is your guys' fault. Karma.

My name is Colin.