Vikings Message Board.Com

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:54 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:56 am

Lol thanks for the “pro-tip”. My point is, he’s constantly out of the pocket throwing the ball. Partially because his OL sucks and partially because he’s not a QB that can consistently sit in the pocket and deliver. Have you ever heard anyone call Russell Wilson a pocket passer? No. And they never will. When he’s out of the pocket scrambling, most routes have been ran or close to it. He often operates off of broken plays. That’s not a true passer. That’s not reading defenses constantly. That’s not consistently hitting guys when they’re breaking out of their routes. It’s not just “his line sucks and he has to scramble”. Stop trying to twist my words. I have explained myself more than once. This is just my opinion. You aren’t changing it. That’s how I feel about Wilson and like I said I’m not the only one. It is what it is

The same could be said about Rogers, who is elite because of his scrambling. That doesn't make him a bad passer, just a different type of passer and based on the numbers, that type of passer is far more effective than a pure pocket passer on a year end and year out basis.

I am also quite aware that there is no changing your mind. You seem to be very set in your ways and dig in your heels when faced with insurmountable evidence that you are wrong. Even when I quoted you above, you argued you didn't say something you said.

There is nothing you’ve “faced me with” that makes me feel like I’m wrong. I’m literally posting multi-paragraph responses to you. It’s not like I’m running from it or am not backing my own opinion. I’ve told you multiple times agree to disagree and you keep pushing your point. What bothers me is that you’re continuing to fight it. And I don’t know why? My opinion on Wilson is set. As well as yours. Agree to disagree and move on. I didn’t “argue something I said”. You tried to make it sound like the only reason he’s outside the pocket is because his OL is bad. I never said that. I said it was part of it but that’s not what I said. That’s you trying to change my words around in order to help your argument. Bottom line is, I think Wilson is an overrated passer. Why are you continuing to push your point? If you think your “evidence” proved me wrong, then keep telling yourself that. Either way, we don’t agree with each other on this top. Which is why I tried to move on from it and also that it has zero to do with the Vikings or the draft

CharVike wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:49 am I get it Wilson is far superior than Cousins. Put another way the Super Bowl would be a given if we had him.

Do you have anything besides snark to add?

Did you bother to look at the stats site at the link?

Wilson, statistically speaking and over his entire career, *is* objectively better than Cousins. I don't know what "far" superior means to you, but he's better. Not in every category, but in many, and certainly in the ones that seem to matter, like winning in the playoffs and beating winning teams late in the season.

The Super Bowl is never a given. Many great QBs haven't made it to, much less won, a Super Bowl. That's not the point of this debate, though, is it? The argument is about whether Russell Wilson is overrated, and I think it's pretty easy to argue he's not.

Pondering admitted he is basing his opinion in the argument upon something subjective. I might not agree with his opinion, but I can respect it. I wish I could say the same for yours.

Dakotavike wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:38 am

S197 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:15 pm Posted in the Sirius thread Risner would be my top OL pick with Dillard second (assuming the consensus top guys are gone). I have a feeling Risner will be gone but the odds Dillard is around seem decent. Absent something odd like an Oliver falling, I think one of those is the pick. If both are gone, I could see Hockenson if he's around.

I'm hoping the Vikings aren't enticed by Sweat, who I think will be available but not worth the 18th pick. We don't need a passs rusher and his health concerns me.

I may not be looking at the right mocks but I don't think I've seen one yet where Risner wasn't available at our pick. In fact, most of the ones I remember seeing he wasn't taken in the entire 1st round. Not saying it's a good or bad pick but it seems like there's a pretty good shot at him being available. In fact, if he's as good as a lot of you seem to think he is it makes me wonder if we could trade back a few spots and still land him.

PFF's mock has him going before our pick. I think to Carolina. I don't think anyone thought Ragnow would be a 1st round pick last year and he went before our pick. I put Risner in the same category. Everyone talking about him and yet no one thinks he'll be drafted high.

I could be wrong, which would be great. Just a hunch.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:48 pm

CharVike wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:44 am
Let's see. M Lynch 2013 1200 yards rushing. Vikings 2018 as a team 1493. They had one guy almost beat our entire team. But our O was so much better. I don't even know what top 5 D means. Don't use top anything with a D that can't get TOs. IMO our D was middle pack not top of something. Look at the entire picture.

They only gave up the 3rd fewest points per drive of any team in the NFL, 4th fewest yards. 4th most 3 and outs forced, 2nd fewest TDs given up and they were 2nd in the red zone.

But yeah, in a season where the offense struggled to score and rarely put any pressure on the opposition to take chances offensively, they didn't get a lot of turnovers, so average I guess.

"Big picture."

You can call it whatever you want. Yards has nothing to do with the outcome. 3 and outs have nothing to do with the out come and is meaningless. IMO TOs are more important. Obviously points allowed is the most important.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:08 pm

CharVike wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:49 am I get it Wilson is far superior than Cousins. Put another way the Super Bowl would be a given if we had him.

Do you have anything besides snark to add?

Did you bother to look at the stats site at the link?

Wilson, statistically speaking and over his entire career, *is* objectively better than Cousins. I don't know what "far" superior means to you, but he's better. Not in every category, but in many, and certainly in the ones that seem to matter, like winning in the playoffs and beating winning teams late in the season.

The Super Bowl is never a given. Many great QBs haven't made it to, much less won, a Super Bowl. That's not the point of this debate, though, is it? The argument is about whether Russell Wilson is overrated, and I think it's pretty easy to argue he's not.

Pondering admitted he is basing his opinion in the argument upon something subjective. I might not agree with his opinion, but I can respect it. I wish I could say the same for yours.

Just my $0.02 on this: Wilson has grown as a passer IMO. During his SB years he was a worse QB than he is today. But the SB teams won with what at the time was the best D in the NFL and arguably the best Rushing attack. Wilson was the cherry on top of that sundae. Fast forward to 2019 and now Wilson in the lynch pin of their offense. However, he isn't in the same category as Rogers, Brady, or Brees. His game is more about mobility and his ability to improvise big plays. I would argue that Wilson's game is very different from Cousin's game. Cousins is better at certain things that Wilson and vice versa. I

The person who said we do not have an elite defense is smoking crank. We've been top 5 for three years now. How is that not elite? You can make the case that it hasn't been enough to win the SB, which it hasn't, but don't say we are not elite just because we do not generate a lot of turnovers. That stats definitely do not support that argument.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:08 pm Also FWIW, Giants GM David Gettleman was questioned a million times today about if they want to pick a QB at 6 or if a few QBs are gone, will they still take one at 6? His response....

I will not force a pick. You can’t draft for need. You get screwed every time

Exactly my thoughts and it’s why I keep saying, if the BPA on our board isn’t an offensive lineman, don’t take an offensive lineman. We will have plenty of opportunities to draft offensive line in the 2nd round on

What a dumb quote. Drafting for need and you get screwed every time. That's an idiot. At one time we needed a RB because we had a bunch of slow old players and we picked Foreman. Bad pick. He will pick a QB and it will be an overdraft. There are only 2 1st round guys and they are rated as low 1st round picks. And I have no idea how Haskins is a 1st round talent. Played 1 year. That;s 3rd or later in my book.

CharVike wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:16 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:08 pm Also FWIW, Giants GM David Gettleman was questioned a million times today about if they want to pick a QB at 6 or if a few QBs are gone, will they still take one at 6? His response....



Exactly my thoughts and it’s why I keep saying, if the BPA on our board isn’t an offensive lineman, don’t take an offensive lineman. We will have plenty of opportunities to draft offensive line in the 2nd round on

What a dumb quote. Drafting for need and you get screwed every time. That's an idiot. At one time we needed a RB because we had a bunch of slow old players and we picked Foreman. Bad pick. He will pick a QB and it will be an overdraft. There are only 2 1st round guys and they are rated as low 1st round picks. And I have no idea how Haskins is a 1st round talent. Played 1 year. That;s 3rd or later in my book.

I dont get how it's a dumb quote. He's saying that he will take BPA and that he wont force taking a QB just because he needs one. There is a good chance the Giants wait until 17 to take a QB which is a smart move IMO. Unless they really fly off the board for some reason. As for the QBs and where they are rated, every year it is like this. Baker Mayfield was the #1 overall pick last year but he wasnt #1 on many big boards. QBs rarely ever are. I'm not sure if Andrew Luck was even #1 on most big boards. Maybe he was I cant remember exactly. It's just there is such a high demand for QBs that they end up being drafted before many other top notch players. That's just the way it is.

mansquatch wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:09 am

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:08 pm

Do you have anything besides snark to add?

Did you bother to look at the stats site at the link?

Wilson, statistically speaking and over his entire career, *is* objectively better than Cousins. I don't know what "far" superior means to you, but he's better. Not in every category, but in many, and certainly in the ones that seem to matter, like winning in the playoffs and beating winning teams late in the season.

The Super Bowl is never a given. Many great QBs haven't made it to, much less won, a Super Bowl. That's not the point of this debate, though, is it? The argument is about whether Russell Wilson is overrated, and I think it's pretty easy to argue he's not.

Pondering admitted he is basing his opinion in the argument upon something subjective. I might not agree with his opinion, but I can respect it. I wish I could say the same for yours.

Just my $0.02 on this: Wilson has grown as a passer IMO. During his SB years he was a worse QB than he is today. But the SB teams won with what at the time was the best D in the NFL and arguably the best Rushing attack. Wilson was the cherry on top of that sundae. Fast forward to 2019 and now Wilson in the lynch pin of their offense. However, he isn't in the same category as Rogers, Brady, or Brees. His game is more about mobility and his ability to improvise big plays. I would argue that Wilson's game is very different from Cousin's game. Cousins is better at certain things that Wilson and vice versa. I

The person who said we do not have an elite defense is smoking crank. We've been top 5 for three years now. How is that not elite? You can make the case that it hasn't been enough to win the SB, which it hasn't, but don't say we are not elite just because we do not generate a lot of turnovers. That stats definitely do not support that argument.

Good post. This explains my thoughts on Wilson better than what I was saying. In the last few years as the LOB started to crumble, more weight was put on Wilsons shoulders. He had to carry the team the past few years because of what was happening to the defense. And it's been hit and miss. No playoffs to playoffs the past 2 years. He's gotten "better" as a passer since the SB days, but I still believe he's overrated in the media as a pure passer. The media seems to put him in the conversation with the Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc. He's not there as a passer. He's really all the Seahawks have had the last few years which I think has forced him to get better. The defense had a big drop off, his OL has always sucked and still does (from a pass blocking standpoint), Lynch fake-retired, lost Jimmy Graham, receivers were meh, etc. I think that forced Wilson to improve as a passer because he was surrounded by average at best talent. However, he's still not an elite passer. He didnt have to do much in the SB years. And I said the same thing, Wilson was just a cherry on top. A QB that could manage a game. He had a RB to lean on and a defense wrecking opposing offenses. There wasnt much asked of him. Now there is. He doesnt always step up to the challenge but better than he would have if this happened in 2013. I mean with Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Mahomes, etc being "tier 1 QBs", I would definitely say Wilson is in tier 2. But he wont ever be in tier 1 IMO. My whole point with this entire thing is that he's not an elite passer like the media and some fans make him out to be. He's a good QB, he's a leader, etc but he's not Tom Brady. He's not Drew Brees. He's not Pat Mahomes. He's not Aaron Rodgers. He is and always will be a step below those guys and the main reason for that, is his passing ability. Wilsons athletic ability next to Tom Brady's isnt even comparable. But Brady's passing ability compared to Wilsons isnt comparable either. Never, EVER will you see Tom Brady throw for 70 yards and 1 INT in a full game. I mean we held Brees to his lowest yards ever with 120 this year and that's still 50 yards more than Wilson threw for against us and Brees has been playing 11 more years than Wilson has. Those 4 QBs are the best pure passers out there. He's simply not there but he's blown up to be. THAT is what I am referring to when I'm saying Wilson is overrated as a passer. He's not an elite passer.

CharVike wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:08 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:48 pm

They only gave up the 3rd fewest points per drive of any team in the NFL, 4th fewest yards. 4th most 3 and outs forced, 2nd fewest TDs given up and they were 2nd in the red zone.

But yeah, in a season where the offense struggled to score and rarely put any pressure on the opposition to take chances offensively, they didn't get a lot of turnovers, so average I guess.

"Big picture."

You can call it whatever you want. Yards has nothing to do with the outcome. 3 and outs have nothing to do with the out come and is meaningless. IMO TOs are more important. Obviously points allowed is the most important.

Forcing a turnover (punt), before a team even gains 10 yards is meaningless? Limiting the other team's offense to fewer yards isn't important? Both result in better field position for your offense and look at that, the Vikings had the 7th best starting field position in the NFL last year.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:55 am

mansquatch wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:09 am

Just my $0.02 on this: Wilson has grown as a passer IMO. During his SB years he was a worse QB than he is today. But the SB teams won with what at the time was the best D in the NFL and arguably the best Rushing attack. Wilson was the cherry on top of that sundae. Fast forward to 2019 and now Wilson in the lynch pin of their offense. However, he isn't in the same category as Rogers, Brady, or Brees. His game is more about mobility and his ability to improvise big plays. I would argue that Wilson's game is very different from Cousin's game. Cousins is better at certain things that Wilson and vice versa. I

The person who said we do not have an elite defense is smoking crank. We've been top 5 for three years now. How is that not elite? You can make the case that it hasn't been enough to win the SB, which it hasn't, but don't say we are not elite just because we do not generate a lot of turnovers. That stats definitely do not support that argument.

Good post. This explains my thoughts on Wilson better than what I was saying. In the last few years as the LOB started to crumble, more weight was put on Wilsons shoulders. He had to carry the team the past few years because of what was happening to the defense. And it's been hit and miss. No playoffs to playoffs the past 2 years. He's gotten "better" as a passer since the SB days, but I still believe he's overrated in the media as a pure passer. The media seems to put him in the conversation with the Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc. He's not there as a passer. He's really all the Seahawks have had the last few years which I think has forced him to get better. The defense had a big drop off, his OL has always sucked and still does (from a pass blocking standpoint), Lynch fake-retired, lost Jimmy Graham, receivers were meh, etc. I think that forced Wilson to improve as a passer because he was surrounded by average at best talent. However, he's still not an elite passer. He didnt have to do much in the SB years. And I said the same thing, Wilson was just a cherry on top. A QB that could manage a game. He had a RB to lean on and a defense wrecking opposing offenses. There wasnt much asked of him. Now there is. He doesnt always step up to the challenge but better than he would have if this happened in 2013. I mean with Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Mahomes, etc being "tier 1 QBs", I would definitely say Wilson is in tier 2. But he wont ever be in tier 1 IMO. My whole point with this entire thing is that he's not an elite passer like the media and some fans make him out to be. He's a good QB, he's a leader, etc but he's not Tom Brady. He's not Drew Brees. He's not Pat Mahomes. He's not Aaron Rodgers. He is and always will be a step below those guys and the main reason for that, is his passing ability. Wilsons athletic ability next to Tom Brady's isnt even comparable. But Brady's passing ability compared to Wilsons isnt comparable either. Never, EVER will you see Tom Brady throw for 70 yards and 1 INT in a full game. I mean we held Brees to his lowest yards ever with 120 this year and that's still 50 yards more than Wilson threw for against us and Brees has been playing 11 more years than Wilson has. Those 4 QBs are the best pure passers out there. He's simply not there but he's blown up to be. THAT is what I am referring to when I'm saying Wilson is overrated as a passer. He's not an elite passer.

And you are wrong about that. The numbers, wins, SB pedigree, everything points to him being an elite passer. There is 0 evidence that he is not. None.

You are essentially arguing the earth is flat here. It honestly is kind of embarrassing.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:36 am

CharVike wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:16 am
What a dumb quote. Drafting for need and you get screwed every time. That's an idiot. At one time we needed a RB because we had a bunch of slow old players and we picked Foreman. Bad pick. He will pick a QB and it will be an overdraft. There are only 2 1st round guys and they are rated as low 1st round picks. And I have no idea how Haskins is a 1st round talent. Played 1 year. That;s 3rd or later in my book.

I dont get how it's a dumb quote. He's saying that he will take BPA and that he wont force taking a QB just because he needs one. There is a good chance the Giants wait until 17 to take a QB which is a smart move IMO. Unless they really fly off the board for some reason. As for the QBs and where they are rated, every year it is like this. Baker Mayfield was the #1 overall pick last year but he wasnt #1 on many big boards. QBs rarely ever are. I'm not sure if Andrew Luck was even #1 on most big boards. Maybe he was I cant remember exactly. It's just there is such a high demand for QBs that they end up being drafted before many other top notch players. That's just the way it is.

I just gave an example using our pick of Foreman. Yes he will say BPA that's what every GM will say and it's based on their board. All teams draft for need regardless of what they say. The best example of not drafting for need is when the Pack took Rodgers. They already had a HOFer in place who still had plenty of time left. I realize QBs get drafted early than they should. Get that position right and it gives you a shot. I might be wrong stating he will draft a QB but teams pick for need no matter what they say.

Stump you are insulting him, but you are not providing any support for your case. That is just rude. It's a matter of opinion, nothing more. No need to be a jerk about it.

My opinion is that Wilson is in that top 10, but probably not the top 5 of QBs in the league. The reason is as PHP states, his passing ability is not in the same echelon as Brees, Brady, Rogers, or even Rothlisburger.

Ironically, I think the QB hierarchy is going to change. I suspect Ben will retire after this year. he is going to really miss Brown and probably won't want to take the abuse that will come with it. Brady is already showing his age as is Brees. Brady will have to face a season without Gronk and I suspect that might change his tune about playing until he is 45, but who knows. The media keep talking about a comeback season for Rogers, but that has been a refrain for the past three seasons, minus the results. Perhaps the coaching changes will help, but the physical aspects of his game are on the decline.

Who fills the void in their absence? Who is the hot young QB prospect? Mahomes I think is likely anointed, barring injury. After him every guy lacks both the resume and the consistency.

mansquatch wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:23 am Stump you are insulting him, but you are not providing any support for your case. That is just rude. It's a matter of opinion, nothing more. No need to be a jerk about it.

My opinion is that Wilson is in that top 10, but probably not the top 5 of QBs in the league. The reason is as PHP states, his passing ability is not in the same echelon as Brees, Brady, Rogers, or even Rothlisburger.

Ironically, I think the QB hierarchy is going to change. I suspect Ben will retire after this year. he is going to really miss Brown and probably won't want to take the abuse that will come with it. Brady is already showing his age as is Brees. Brady will have to face a season without Gronk and I suspect that might change his tune about playing until he is 45, but who knows. The media keep talking about a comeback season for Rogers, but that has been a refrain for the past three seasons, minus the results. Perhaps the coaching changes will help, but the physical aspects of his game are on the decline.

Who fills the void in their absence? Who is the hot young QB prospect? Mahomes I think is likely anointed, barring injury. After him every guy lacks both the resume and the consistency.

I have provided support: Every major statistical passing category save completion percentage, Wilson is top 5 in among active starters. For completion percentage, he is 7th and better than Brady, despite being an "inaccurate passer". 1st in YPA, 2nd in passer rating. What more proof do you need? What is the evaluation for an elite passer, if not elite passing stats?

So you can have the opinion that he isn't in the same category as Brees, Brady, Rogers, and Ben, but your opinion would be wrong.

And I get why someone would have the opinion Wilson isn't a good passer. Most running QBs aren't great passers. When faced with the evidence that this running QB is actually an elite passer though, wouldn't you concede that your opinion was wrong? Or would you continue to argue despite every tangible bit of evidence going against your argument?

S197 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:10 pm

Dakotavike wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:38 am

I may not be looking at the right mocks but I don't think I've seen one yet where Risner wasn't available at our pick. In fact, most of the ones I remember seeing he wasn't taken in the entire 1st round. Not saying it's a good or bad pick but it seems like there's a pretty good shot at him being available. In fact, if he's as good as a lot of you seem to think he is it makes me wonder if we could trade back a few spots and still land him.

PFF's mock has him going before our pick. I think to Carolina. I don't think anyone thought Ragnow would be a 1st round pick last year and he went before our pick. I put Risner in the same category. Everyone talking about him and yet no one thinks he'll be drafted high.

I could be wrong, which would be great. Just a hunch.

That's a good point with Ragnow. I feel like Risner has cooled down a bit as of late. I honestly dont see him going before 18. I see him going in the first but not before 18. I read yesterday that Carolina and Houston are looking for a quality tackle and one if not both could end up trading up to draft one. Maybe OL goes quicker than we think. I will say that I am glad that we are more in the market for a guard than we are a tackle. Because tackle seems like a high priority for teams right now. I really think we take Ford or Fant at 18. I'm calling it.

Here is an updated list of who we have met with according to Walter Football:

Johnathan Abram, S, Mississippi State (COM)
Otaro Alaka, OLB, Texas A&M (WOR)
Calvin Anderson, OT, Texas (PRI)
Derrick Baity, CB, Kentucky (EW)
Cody Barton, OLB, Utah (EW)
Jackson Barton, OT, Utah (EW)
Andrew Beck^, FB/TE, Texas (EW, PRI)
Casey Bednarksi, K, Minnesota State (WOR)
Kendall Blanton, TE, Missouri (EW)
Blake Cashman, ILB, Minnesota (LOC)
L.J. Collier, DE/3-4DE, TCU (PRI)
Ryan Connelly, OLB, Wisconsin (PRI)
Nate Davis, OT, Charlotte (PRI)
Andre Dillard, OT, Washington State (PRI)
Noah Fant^, TE, Iowa (COM, PRI)
Nick Fitzgerald, QB, Mississippi State (PRI)
Cody Ford^, OT/G, Oklahoma (COM, PRI)
Lamont Gaillard^, G, Georgia (EW, COM)
Luke Gifford, ILB, Nebraska (PRI)
Donnell Greene, OT, Minnesota (LOC)
Robbie Grimsley, S, North Dakota State (LOC)
Terrill Hanks^, OLB, New Mexico State (PRO, PRI)
Amani Hooker, S, Iowa (PRI)
Tytus Howard, OT, Alabama State (PRI)
Jalen Hurd, WR, Baylor (PRI)
Isaiah Johnson, CB, Houston (PRI)
Michael Jordan, G/C, Ohio State (COM)
Chris Lindstrom, G, Boston College (COM)
Greg Little^, OT, Ole Miss (COM, PRI)
Josh Oliver, TE, San Jose State (PRI)
Charles Omenihu, DE, Texas (COM)
Devine Ozigbo^, RB, Nebraska (EW, PRI)
Trey Pipkins^, OT, Sioux Falls (EW, PRI)
Ryan Pope, OT, San Diego State (EW)
Dalton Risner, OT, Kansas State (COM)
Deebo Samuel, WR, South Carolina (SR)
Jeffery Simmons, DT/3-4DE, Mississippi State (PRI)
Jeff Smith, WR, Boston College (PRI)
Bunchy Stallings, G, Kentucky (EW)
Jace Sternberger, TE, Texas A&M (PRI)
Ty Summers, ILB, TCU (PRO)
Jordan Ta'amu, QB, Ole Miss (PRO)
Sione Takitaki, OLB, Brigham Young (EW)
Derrek Thomas, CB, Baylor (PRO)
Olisaemeka Udoh, OT, Elon (EW)
John Ursua, WR, Hawaii (PRI)
Brian Wallace, OT, Arkansas (EW)
Jonah Williams, OT, Alabama (COM)


Now I've followed this over the years because it gives you a direct look at who the team has met with. I will say, it is fairly accurate and will show a few of the guys we will draft. The things you want to look for with these are the following:

PRI- private visit (top 30 visit)
WOR- private workout
COM- combine meeting
PRO- pro day meeting/workout
^- has met with team at more than one event.

If you look at the guys that have had multiple meeting with us, the first round prospects are Cody Ford, Noah Fant and Greg Little. This usually adds up to who we are targeting in the first round barring someone falling. For example, in 2013, Shariff Floyd wasnt even on this list (but he was also suppose to go top 5). But guys like Waynes, Teddy, Barr, Rhodes, Treadwell, etc. have been on it. Some with multiple meetings. This is what I use when doing my mocks (not always) because it gives me a better idea of who we are targeting, especially in later rounds. I use multiple different sources as well as my own opinion of need, contracts, etc in these mocks. But this is why I'm really leaning towards us drafting Ford or Fant. We have obviously shown serious interest in them. Granted we also met with Jonah Williams, Jeffery Simmons, Dalton Risner, Chris Lindstrom, Amani Hooker, Andre Dillard, LJ Collier and Johnathan Abram for first round prospects. It's just we've been on those other 3 a little harder. It at least shows us what direction they are leaning. Which seems to be OL or TE.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:10 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:55 am

Good post. This explains my thoughts on Wilson better than what I was saying. In the last few years as the LOB started to crumble, more weight was put on Wilsons shoulders. He had to carry the team the past few years because of what was happening to the defense. And it's been hit and miss. No playoffs to playoffs the past 2 years. He's gotten "better" as a passer since the SB days, but I still believe he's overrated in the media as a pure passer. The media seems to put him in the conversation with the Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc. He's not there as a passer. He's really all the Seahawks have had the last few years which I think has forced him to get better. The defense had a big drop off, his OL has always sucked and still does (from a pass blocking standpoint), Lynch fake-retired, lost Jimmy Graham, receivers were meh, etc. I think that forced Wilson to improve as a passer because he was surrounded by average at best talent. However, he's still not an elite passer. He didnt have to do much in the SB years. And I said the same thing, Wilson was just a cherry on top. A QB that could manage a game. He had a RB to lean on and a defense wrecking opposing offenses. There wasnt much asked of him. Now there is. He doesnt always step up to the challenge but better than he would have if this happened in 2013. I mean with Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Mahomes, etc being "tier 1 QBs", I would definitely say Wilson is in tier 2. But he wont ever be in tier 1 IMO. My whole point with this entire thing is that he's not an elite passer like the media and some fans make him out to be. He's a good QB, he's a leader, etc but he's not Tom Brady. He's not Drew Brees. He's not Pat Mahomes. He's not Aaron Rodgers. He is and always will be a step below those guys and the main reason for that, is his passing ability. Wilsons athletic ability next to Tom Brady's isnt even comparable. But Brady's passing ability compared to Wilsons isnt comparable either. Never, EVER will you see Tom Brady throw for 70 yards and 1 INT in a full game. I mean we held Brees to his lowest yards ever with 120 this year and that's still 50 yards more than Wilson threw for against us and Brees has been playing 11 more years than Wilson has. Those 4 QBs are the best pure passers out there. He's simply not there but he's blown up to be. THAT is what I am referring to when I'm saying Wilson is overrated as a passer. He's not an elite passer.

And you are wrong about that. The numbers, wins, SB pedigree, everything points to him being an elite passer. There is 0 evidence that he is not. None.

You are essentially arguing the earth is flat here. It honestly is kind of embarrassing.

God you just dont know when to quit..... So I guess that must apply to anyone else that believes Wilson isnt an elite passer? Because again, I'm not the only one saying it. I guess there are more people than I thought that think the earth is flat lol