Vikings Message Board.Com

CharVike wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:20 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 9:19 pm
Ever watch Butler play?

Didn't think so.

The problem is happening again.
Butler's rookie season was believed to be developmental. He made some plays in training camp but also dropped passes and was clearly behind other rookies like Andy Isabella and KeeSean Johnson.
Can't catch good enough to be a pro. But he will get a year on IR. Good for him. Better than getting cut. He better learn how to catch.

You waited three months to respond to my post?

Man, the need to be RIGHT is so overwhelmingly pervasive on this board.

OK. You're right. I'm wrong, and I don't care. Have a nice day.

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:28 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:16 pm

A 3rd WR is not more important. Last year, would you say Latavius Murray was more important or our 3rd WR? We have a back that has yet to play 16 games and don't have much of a backup behind him. We have the best WR duo in football. Not saying a 3rd WR isn't important, but it's much easier to get away with who we have at WR vs getting away with a below average backup RB.

As for Ferguson, he has off the field issues. Him falling isn't a surprise

I would say 3rd WR is more important. As you point out teams (including us) are routinely in 3 WR sets. Our 3rd WR (aldrick) had 6 tds last season.

In Kub's system it will be 2 TE base.

CharVike wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:58 am

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:28 pm

I would say 3rd WR is more important. As you point out teams (including us) are routinely in 3 WR sets. Our 3rd WR (aldrick) had 6 tds last season.

In Kub's system it will be 2 TE base.

To run the football. The #2 TE has done very little in the passing game every year but 1 in a Kubiak offense.

Every team needs 3 viable WRs in today's NFL. Not 3 great ones, but at least a 3rd WR who adds something. I am not sure we have that.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:06 am Every team needs 3 viable WRs in today's NFL. Not 3 great ones, but at least a 3rd WR who adds something. I am not sure we have that.

Our WR3 situation makes me nervous. Beebe was supposed to be the answer, but he really hasn't been good in preseason action. He showed some flashes last year though. Bisi Johnson looks solid, and may actually win the WR3 job.

I would personally like to see the Vikings add a veteran, and there will likely be some available after cuts.

CharVike wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:19 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 9:19 pm
Ever watch Butler play?

Didn't think so.

The problem is happening again.
Butler's rookie season was believed to be developmental. He made some plays in training camp but also dropped passes and was clearly behind other rookies like Andy Isabella and KeeSean Johnson.
Can't catch good enough to be a pro. But he will get a year on IR. Good for him. Better than getting cut. He better learn how to catch or it will be over for him quickly.

You think Butler was going to get cut? Lol.

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:03 pm

CharVike wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:19 am
The problem is happening again.
Butler's rookie season was believed to be developmental. He made some plays in training camp but also dropped passes and was clearly behind other rookies like Andy Isabella and KeeSean Johnson.
Can't catch good enough to be a pro. But he will get a year on IR. Good for him. Better than getting cut. He better learn how to catch or it will be over for him quickly.

You think Butler was going to get cut? Lol.

Hurt or not, bottom line was, he was being out performed by a 6th round pick in Keesean Johnson. And you think we should have taken him over mattison. At this rate, it makes me wonder if Butler would have out performed Bisi Johnson.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:07 pm

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:03 pm

You think Butler was going to get cut? Lol.

Hurt or not, bottom line was, he was being out performed by a 6th round pick in Keesean Johnson. And you think we should have taken him over mattison. At this rate, it makes me wonder if Butler would have out performed Bisi Johnson.

He wasn't being put performed but let say he was. Mattison is being out performed by Boone. Clearly. It happens. However, a career isn't 2 months.

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:22 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:07 pm

Hurt or not, bottom line was, he was being out performed by a 6th round pick in Keesean Johnson. And you think we should have taken him over mattison. At this rate, it makes me wonder if Butler would have out performed Bisi Johnson.

He wasn't being put performed but let say he was. Mattison is being out performed by Boone. Clearly. It happens. However, a career isn't 2 months.

Favor your boy all you want but:

Johnson appears to be the obvious No. 3 in Arizona with fellow rookies Andy Isabella and Hakeem Butler both working behind him. Isabella has reportedly "dropped too many passes" at camp while Butler has also had issues with "holding onto the ball."

ESPN's Josh Weinfuss has passed along similar observations and even predicted Johnson will open as the No. 3 receiver behind Larry Fitzgerald and Christian Kirk. Johnson was drafted behind both Andy Isabella and Hakeem Butler, but there's been no question Johnson has been the better player in practice to this point.

....he was indeed being outplayed, by a 6th round WR. As for Mattison, Mike Boone has ran well against backups. Mattison has played against starters the majority of the time. Either way, 2 months or not, Butler is going to struggle to find his way back on the field. You really have little argument now given Butler was being outplayed by a 6th rounder and now done for the year.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:48 pm

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:22 pm

He wasn't being put performed but let say he was. Mattison is being out performed by Boone. Clearly. It happens. However, a career isn't 2 months.

Favor your boy all you want but:

Johnson appears to be the obvious No. 3 in Arizona with fellow rookies Andy Isabella and Hakeem Butler both working behind him. Isabella has reportedly "dropped too many passes" at camp while Butler has also had issues with "holding onto the ball."

ESPN's Josh Weinfuss has passed along similar observations and even predicted Johnson will open as the No. 3 receiver behind Larry Fitzgerald and Christian Kirk. Johnson was drafted behind both Andy Isabella and Hakeem Butler, but there's been no question Johnson has been the better player in practice to this point.

....he was indeed being outplayed, by a 6th round WR. As for Mattison, Mike Boone has ran well against backups. Mattison has played against starters the majority of the time. Either way, 2 months or not, Butler is going to struggle to find his way back on the field. You really have little argument now given Butler was being outplayed by a 6th rounder and now done for the year.

So you side step the fact that our own pick was being outplayed by our UDFA by claiming he was running with the first stringers mostly? Boone is the better back at this point. His burst, vision and feel for the position is better and Mattison in the 3rd was still unneeded. As I predicted our WR depth is horrible. You were so sure bebbe would be the answer and everything after Diggs and AT has been a dumpster fire. Your new love Johnson was getting chewed out two weeks ago along with all the other young WRs for showing nothing. We have 4 now and you still think you are winning this dick measuring contest. You're wrong about WR depth being unimportant and we are #### this season. I was right that it was more important. Now we have a surplus of rbs even if Cook goes down.

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:23 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:48 pm

Favor your boy all you want but:





....he was indeed being outplayed, by a 6th round WR. As for Mattison, Mike Boone has ran well against backups. Mattison has played against starters the majority of the time. Either way, 2 months or not, Butler is going to struggle to find his way back on the field. You really have little argument now given Butler was being outplayed by a 6th rounder and now done for the year.

So you side step the fact that our own pick was being outplayed by our UDFA by claiming he was running with the first stringers mostly? Boone is the better back at this point. His burst, vision and feel for the position is better and Mattison in the 3rd was still unneeded. As I predicted our WR depth is horrible. You were so sure bebbe would be the answer and everything after Diggs and AT has been a dumpster fire. Your new love Johnson was getting chewed out two weeks ago along with all the other young WRs for showing nothing. We have 4 now and you still think you are winning this dick measuring contest. You're wrong about WR depth being unimportant and we are #### this season. I was right that it was more important. Now we have a surplus of rbs even if Cook goes down.

I would go with Mattison over Boone easy. Not even close how much more talented Mattison is then Boone.

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:23 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:48 pm

Favor your boy all you want but:





....he was indeed being outplayed, by a 6th round WR. As for Mattison, Mike Boone has ran well against backups. Mattison has played against starters the majority of the time. Either way, 2 months or not, Butler is going to struggle to find his way back on the field. You really have little argument now given Butler was being outplayed by a 6th rounder and now done for the year.

So you side step the fact that our own pick was being outplayed by our UDFA by claiming he was running with the first stringers mostly? Boone is the better back at this point. His burst, vision and feel for the position is better and Mattison in the 3rd was still unneeded. As I predicted our WR depth is horrible. You were so sure bebbe would be the answer and everything after Diggs and AT has been a dumpster fire. Your new love Johnson was getting chewed out two weeks ago along with all the other young WRs for showing nothing. We have 4 now and you still think you are winning this dick measuring contest. You're wrong about WR depth being unimportant and we are #### this season. I was right that it was more important. Now we have a surplus of rbs even if Cook goes down.

Lol ok dude. I guess given the fact that Boone played well against defenses that were compiled of guys that got cut over the past few days makes him a better RB than Mattison who again, was playing against starters. This is almost similar to a Kyle Sloter situation. He’s playing well against a bunch of practice squad or worse players. Also, given the fact that dalvin cook has yet to play a full season, we rely on mike Boone for insurance? Boone’s talent and Mattisons talent aren’t even close. Mattison is a do-it-all 3 down workhorse. Proved it time and time again in college. Boone hardly broke 100 carries each year in college. Mattisons final 2 years he was over 200 and 300 carries. There is zero proof Boone could be any type of workhorse whatsoever.

And bottom line is, you were raving about butler and how he would have been a steal and the guy was getting outplayed by everybody WR on that 53 man roster. So you can sit here and bark all you want about mattison being a wasted pick but in the end, it would have been butler that would have been the wasted pick given how he showed in Arizona.

As for Bisi Johnson, the guy actually made plays this preseason, something butler failed to do. And yeah Zim got on the rookie receivers in what? The first week of camp? Either way, Johnson showed up in the preseason and made plays.

The Cardinals weren't happy with Butlers play throughout the offseason, and he'll likely be a few more steps behind Andy Isabella and KeeSean Johnson when he returns next offseason. Butler is merely a dynasty hold given Arizona's air raid offense, but it's hard to be overly optimistic right now.

^not a good sign at all.

Dalvin Cook played the first two series, but Mattison got some reps with the starters. Mattison was outshined by Cook in this one, but he's had a solid preseason (94 total yards, 3.5 YPC) and has been the talk of training camp. With the Vikings committed to the run and Cook's injury history, Mattison is a high-end handcuff that could push for standalone value.

The Vikings have a rookie RB named Alexander Mattison who they were all raving about when I stopped by their camp," Glazer writes. "I mean, to a man, couldn’t stop preaching his gospel."

^good sign.

You have little argument here

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:23 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:48 pm

Favor your boy all you want but:





....he was indeed being outplayed, by a 6th round WR. As for Mattison, Mike Boone has ran well against backups. Mattison has played against starters the majority of the time. Either way, 2 months or not, Butler is going to struggle to find his way back on the field. You really have little argument now given Butler was being outplayed by a 6th rounder and now done for the year.

So you side step the fact that our own pick was being outplayed by our UDFA by claiming he was running with the first stringers mostly? Boone is the better back at this point. His burst, vision and feel for the position is better and Mattison in the 3rd was still unneeded. As I predicted our WR depth is horrible. You were so sure bebbe would be the answer and everything after Diggs and AT has been a dumpster fire. Your new love Johnson was getting chewed out two weeks ago along with all the other young WRs for showing nothing. We have 4 now and you still think you are winning this dick measuring contest. You're wrong about WR depth being unimportant and we are #### this season. I was right that it was more important. Now we have a surplus of rbs even if Cook goes down.

Mike Boone - 41 Attempts (4.8 YPC) [AGAINST BACKUPS]
Alexander Mattison - 25 Attempts (3.6 YPC) [AGAINST STARTERS]

Notice how terrible your argument is? Mattison literally only had TWENTY FIVE attempts compared to Boone.

Boone most certainly did not "outperform" Mattison. What Boone did get was the chance to RUN MORE.

Holy buckets this is hilarious.

He averaged 3.6 yards per carry. Boone was playing against lesser talent but also had lesser talent blocking for him. it's a wash. the bottom line is he's faster to the whole he's faster through the whole he's runs just as hard and as head bigger runs and looked way more explosive. now whether you think he's better or not you can't dismiss the fact that he's out played him.

also can I point out him being outplayed by The talented wide receivers that Arizona has has nothing to do with the bums that we have collected. I know they are all fan favorites and BB is the second coming of Wes Walker but he had one catch all preseason. Hakeem would have been better for this team than Mattison

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:18 pm He averaged 3.6 yards per carry. Boone was playing against lesser talent but also had lesser talent blocking for him. it's a wash. the bottom line is he's faster to the whole he's faster through the whole he's runs just as hard and as head bigger runs and looked way more explosive. now whether you think he's better or not you can't dismiss the fact that he's out played him.

There is absolutely no fact that Boone outplayed Mattison. It seems to me that you are desperate to save face regarding your stance that we should have drafted Butler. It is a fact that Boone got more yards in preseason games at a higher YPC than Mattison. It is not a fact that he outplayed him. If you understood logic at all you would know that you are presenting a fallacy. As for looking more explosive that is a matter of opinion which a lot of people don't share with you. I would go more by the training camp reports from the media and the opinions of the coaches which completely favor Mattison. Time for you to just admit how wrong you were about Butler and move on.