Vikings Message Board.Com

Lamar Jackson, dude is a baller. Extremely mobile. Get a OC thats good with QB's and throw him to the wolves

Mothman wrote:

Rock45 wrote:Yeah, We can't judge the entire season from a couple of bad games. But my question is this: How many plays per game is a healthy Bradford better than a healthy Case or Teddy? I'm going to say about 5 to 7.

Perhaps but I think it's also fair to consider that he might be good for several more negative plays per game too due to a lack of mobility. He's definitely the best passer of the 3 though.

I understand your concern. I'm saying 5 to 7 despite him not being the most fleet footed qb in the league.

Mothman wrote:

Rock45 wrote:Yeah, We can't judge the entire season from a couple of bad games. But my question is this: How many plays per game is a healthy Bradford better than a healthy Case or Teddy? I'm going to say about 5 to 7.

Perhaps but I think it's also fair to consider that he might be good for several more negative plays per game too due to a lack of mobility. He's definitely the best passer of the 3 though.


Some of us like Sam and wish he could stay healthy. Some of us thought the trade was smart.

The dude disagrees with you. So do I. Get over it.

I really hate it when people like to tell others what to do. I am over it. Hoping Rick is too. Let someone else pay for an injury prone QB who cant stay on the field. Every team that has had him wishes he could stay healthy but guess what, he cant. Maybe we should all run our posts by you and PHP before we post anything.[/quote]

For what's it's worth, I agree with you about Bradford. For that matter, I also agree with Kapp to the extent that I like Bradford. However, I think the lesson to be learned from Bradford's career to this point is that he's probably not worth the money. In the end there's a good chance that trade will end up as a first round draft pick poorly spent by the Vikings.

The more I look at the Vikes QB situation the more I wonder if, rather than having 3 potential long term starters hitting free agency, they might have zero. I'm not sure about Keenum. It may be that this year represented a "turn of the corner" for him but there's not one QB among those 3 to whom I'd give a lucrative, long-term contract this offseason. I hope they will take a hard look at free agency and the draft as well as at these 3 players.[/quote]

Jim just wondering who will be available in FA? I like Smith but rumor has it Andy Reid wants two # 2's for him.
I really don't want to give up more draft picks.

halfgiz wrote:Jim just wondering who will be available in FA? I like Smith but rumor has it Andy Reid wants two # 2's for him.
I really don't want to give up more draft picks.

It's a good question. I'm not sure which QBs will actually hit free agency. There are all sorts of rumors flying around. I doubt Brees ends up anywhere other than New Orleans. Cousins might hit the market but that situation between him and Washington is weird and unpredictable. The 49ers will probably sign Garoppolo. A.J. McCarron could end up being available. What he's worth is debatable but at the right price, he's at least intriguing. There are even rumors that Bortles could end up being available but I'd be surprised if that turns out to be the case.

I'm not eager to see the Vikes trade high draft picks for Smith either.

I don't know what they're going to do! It's not a great situation.

The trickiest part of all of this is the vacancy at OC, which leaves our Defensively focused HC in a pickle.

I get the impression that the Vikings won't make a decision regarding their QB quandary until they have hired their OC. Zimmer's success or failure, IMO, will hinge on this decision. Huge offseason... lots of things for fans to chew on!

Texas Vike wrote:The trickiest part of all of this is the vacancy at OC, which leaves our Defensively focused HC in a pickle.

I get the impression that the Vikings won't make a decision regarding their QB quandary until they have hired their OC.

I think it's almost certain to work out that way. It's logical and I doubt they'll get to the QB situation resolved until free agency draws near (if not after it begins). I imagine they'll want an OC in place before the combine.

Zimmer's success or failure, IMO, will hinge on this decision. Huge offseason... lots of things for fans to chew on!

It's big!

Random QB thoughts:

Keenum might be smart to leave in that some team might make him a far over valued offer and then Keenum gets paid starting top 10 QB money, if only for a few seasons. Guy gets paid. On the downside, and I think he knows this, not every team in the NFL will have the talent on offense the Vikings can surround him with. However, the Vikings are also not likely to over pay him. This depends on how Keenum views the long game. Also who they hire as OC...

TB has everything to gain and everything to lose by leaving. Like Keenum he will benefit from the surrounding cast in MN. However, unlike Keenum his resume isn't as complete as his regular season performance was 14TD/9INT. In this sense he has greater incentive to leave so he can have the opportunity to prove it and get back on the gravy train. For this reason, I think if he is not given a strong shot at the starting job, I think he leaves. He is way too young to be a career back-up in the NFL. The X-Factor here is the well known fact that Mike Zimmer loves Teddy. That might carry weight.

Bradford is, IMO, in a similar boat to TB, but he actually has a superior resume. I wouldn't be surprised to see him stick around, especially if that knee is healthy. I think the Vikings feel if he can stay upright for a full season then he gives them far more juice on offense than the other two guys because of his talent as a thrower. Downside is he does the least to help the protection. Still, if he can be on the field consistently then he is the BEST QB on the roster.

I think if their knees are both able to get them on the field, ie equal, then Bradford > Bridgewater. Of course that glosses over the real concern for both of them, which is the knee health. The Training / Medical staff REALLY needs to earn it's paycheck here.

My sense is that giving up draft picks for Alex Smith would be stupid. Is he really that much of an upgrade over Keenum? To me this is giving up Keenum's 2-4 bad throws a game in exchange for also giving up his 2-4 great throws since Smith is so conservative. I dobut we have a MPLS Miracle with Alex Smith. Of course we might not have the pick that lead to us needing it. I'm not feeling that, I'd rather keep the picks and maybe give Keenum a front loaded deal. Also, Keenum has Moxie in the huddle, what does Smith bring in terms of intangibles? My sense is maybe these guys are push, maybe not. I HIGHLY dobut that Smith brings enough to the table to justify giving up draft picks for him.

Drew Brees is, obvious to everyone, the best option. Getting him out of NO would be a miracle. I'm sure everyone here already knows this.

halfgiz wrote: So you don't think the injury issues with the line affected anything??
The last 2 games Hill was like a revolving door and the last game had a PFF rating of 33. Remmers wasnt any better at left guard.

No, I think they did have an effect, but that isn't necessarily an excuse. Most QBs at the pro level can be effective if they get great protection. It's the guys who are effective when the protection breaks down that are worth the big contracts IMHO. Case's regression under those conditions should concern people.

I see a lot of reservations about Bradford, but my point with Bradford is he could be signed to a very cap-friendly prove-it deal. His injury history ensures nobody is going to give him a big multi-year deal as a starter, so he can be had for much less than his talent-level would otherwise dictate.

It's a relatively high reward, low-risk move to bring him back as long as the Vikings have a viable backup. In my view, that is almost more critical going into next year than finding a starter, whether that starter is Bradford or someone else. This last season the Vikes had happened largely on the strength of the 3rd string QB signed for what, $2 million per year? Whether the starter ends up being Bradford, Cousins, or someone we've never even heard of, that backup QB could loom large. Hopefully Spielman and Zimmer and whomever the OC ends up being make the right moves here, because with the maturity of the defense and the overall talent level on this team, getting the right guys at the starting and backup QB positions is going to be critical to their chances next year.

Mothman wrote:

halfgiz wrote:Jim just wondering who will be available in FA? I like Smith but rumor has it Andy Reid wants two # 2's for him.
I really don't want to give up more draft picks.

It's a good question. I'm not sure which QBs will actually hit free agency. There are all sorts of rumors flying around. I doubt Brees ends up anywhere other than New Orleans.

PFT reported that Brees stated he would not go anywhere else. He wants to stay a Saint.

Boon wrote:Lamar Jackson, dude is a baller. Extremely mobile. Get a OC thats good with QB's and throw him to the wolves

Don't know a lot about the draft prospects yet but this guy is intriguing to me. I always fall in love with the mobile quarterbacks with Cannon arms. From what I've read about Jackson I'm not sure I'd want to start him in year one though.

VikingLord wrote:

halfgiz wrote: So you don't think the injury issues with the line affected anything??
The last 2 games Hill was like a revolving door and the last game had a PFF rating of 33. Remmers wasnt any better at left guard.

No, I think they did have an effect, but that isn't necessarily an excuse. Most QBs at the pro level can be effective if they get great protection. It's the guys who are effective when the protection breaks down that are worth the big contracts IMHO. Case's regression under those conditions should concern people.

I see a lot of reservations about Bradford, but my point with Bradford is he could be signed to a very cap-friendly prove-it deal. His injury history ensures nobody is going to give him a big multi-year deal as a starter, so he can be had for much less than his talent-level would otherwise dictate.

It's a relatively high reward, low-risk move to bring him back as long as the Vikings have a viable backup. In my view, that is almost more critical going into next year than finding a starter, whether that starter is Bradford or someone else. This last season the Vikes had happened largely on the strength of the 3rd string QB signed for what, $2 million per year? Whether the starter ends up being Bradford, Cousins, or someone we've never even heard of, that backup QB could loom large. Hopefully Spielman and Zimmer and whomever the OC ends up being make the right moves here, because with the maturity of the defense and the overall talent level on this team, getting the right guys at the starting and backup QB positions is going to be critical to their chances next year.

Rumors are that Cards are intrested in Bradford. Their problem this year, is they don't have a high draft pick to try and draft a QB.
Bradford wants paid and he will probably wait until after Cousins and Smith are signed.

Jim I also heard Haley and the Browns are interested in Alex Smith.

VikingLord wrote:

halfgiz wrote: So you don't think the injury issues with the line affected anything??
The last 2 games Hill was like a revolving door and the last game had a PFF rating of 33. Remmers wasnt any better at left guard.

No, I think they did have an effect, but that isn't necessarily an excuse. Most QBs at the pro level can be effective if they get great protection. It's the guys who are effective when the protection breaks down that are worth the big contracts IMHO. Case's regression under those conditions should concern people.

I see a lot of reservations about Bradford, but my point with Bradford is he could be signed to a very cap-friendly prove-it deal. His injury history ensures nobody is going to give him a big multi-year deal as a starter, so he can be had for much less than his talent-level would otherwise dictate.

It's a relatively high reward, low-risk move to bring him back as long as the Vikings have a viable backup. In my view, that is almost more critical going into next year than finding a starter, whether that starter is Bradford or someone else. This last season the Vikes had happened largely on the strength of the 3rd string QB signed for what, $2 million per year? Whether the starter ends up being Bradford, Cousins, or someone we've never even heard of, that backup QB could loom large. Hopefully Spielman and Zimmer and whomever the OC ends up being make the right moves here, because with the maturity of the defense and the overall talent level on this team, getting the right guys at the starting and backup QB positions is going to be critical to their chances next year.

Couldn't agree more with the bolded part, that's exactly how I feel. On weaker teams that ask him to do more with weaker O-lines he's been lack luster. On a team like the Vikings, that doesn't get exposed as much until you have injuries and play top tier competition.

With that said, what if we franchised Case and paid him that 22 million just to back up either Teddy or Sam, depending on who actually has a chance to be healthy and who the new OC likes? Is that too much of a dick move? On one hand we'd be paying him a ton to do nothing but these guys always want to compete and play so it might still be bad juju.

Why we'd do it is because we can probably get Sam or Teddy on a cheaper 1 year "prove it" deal and if they do prove it, then the year after that we just move that Keenum money over to Sam or Teddy. Of course we also get the exact same situation we had this year with a back up capable of taking over and not ending our season immediately if the worst case scenario goes down.

I haven't looked into all the possible options, there are probably other back ups we could bring in if we wanted to go that route for cheaper but thought it was interesting.

I think were the Vikings have leverage is that they have three quarterbacks who are roughly the same for different reasons ( some have better accuracy some have better health) and they should be able to use that to get the one that is most reasonable in their contract demands. I'd be okay if they didn't bring any of them back. I definitely wouldn't bring more than one back and then I would draft one and keep Sloter.

They will go with Teddy, the hometown favorite and "good guy", and the logistical worst of the 3. Book it.

Rock45 wrote:

Mothman wrote:

Rock45 wrote:Yeah, We can't judge the entire season from a couple of bad games. But my question is this: How many plays per game is a healthy Bradford better than a healthy Case or Teddy? I'm going to say about 5 to 7.

Perhaps but I think it's also fair to consider that he might be good for several more negative plays per game too due to a lack of mobility. He's definitely the best passer of the 3 though.

I understand your concern. I'm saying 5 to 7 despite him not being the most fleet footed qb in the league.

Understood and you may be right about that. It's hard to quantify but as i said, he sis definitely th superior passer among the 3 QBs.