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dead_poet wrote:Jaws QB rankings: Christian Ponder No. 27

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_ ... nder-no-27

jaworski drives me nuts at times but i think he does really well analyzing qb's. this assessment seems to be spot on to me. he's ranked 27th. based on what i've seen so far that seems fair. that said, i see nice qualities as well. he has a good arm and can make all the throws despite what some say. that said, it is one thing to have the ability and it's a whole other ball game to be able to do these things in games and pressure situations. this is a huge year for ponder. he'll either cement himself as the vikes starter for years to come or he'll be a career #2 somewhere.

dead_poet wrote:Jaws QB rankings: Christian Ponder No. 27

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_ ... nder-no-27

Thanks for the link. I'd say that's a fair assessment. I think execution vs. the blitz, completions of 20 yards or more and even efficiency off play action are all areas where talent and execution elsewhere on offense had an impact.

Siefert's follow-up comments on the play action efficiency are worth quoting:

Let's provide some specifics on what Jaworski referenced. Ponder threw the second-most play-action passes in the NFL last season (165), according to ESPN Stats & Information. He passed for half of his season total of touchdown passes (nine of 18) on such throws. But he also threw four interceptions and took eight sacks, finishing with an 88.2 passer rating and a 63.2 Total Quarterback Rating overall in play-action.

Both figures are above average, but to Jaworski's point, you would hope them to be sparkling considering Peterson's presence.

The part highlighted puts the stats in perspective and again efficiency off play action involves much more than just the quarterback. Ponder needs to improve in that area but so does the offense as a whole. I know I'm repeating myself but since that stuff rarely seems to be mentioned in these articles, I figure it's worth mentioning. YMMV.

Jeffbleedspurple wrote:
I often thought about what I was going to do with my Harvin jersey when I see it there hanging in the closet, but it's comfortable so it's just a shirt. I would like to remove the name though.

You could cross it out and use any of the following:
Tom McNeil 1970

Barry S. Bennett 1974

Neil Clabo 1975-77

Steve Dils 1979-84

Keith Bishop 1987

Sean Salisbury 1990-94

Daunte Culpepper 1999

Lee Johnson 2001

Shaun Hill 2002

Gus Frerotte 2003-04

Billy McMullen 2006


(I got that information from this Link, but the part I almost laughed at was they didn't show Harvin as wearing #12 for the vikings. I suspect the page hasn't been updated yet (there are no current player numbers on there), but it was funny to think the Vikes 'disowned' him. )

What is it with these dice - get rid OF THEM ALREADY!

NFL.com has a new article about Ponder written by Adam Schein:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000 ... tal-season

Schein mentioned that he thought Matt Cassel was brought in to push Ponder and then followed it up with this:

Peterson had a great opportunity to take the high road, talk up a competition and speak in cliché when we chatted Friday on our SiriusXM "Schein on Sports" radio show. Instead, he spoke convincingly and authoritatively on Ponder.

I asked Peterson if Ponder was the guy. There was no hesitation. "He is. Christian is the starter Week 1. He is more fluent. I know he's the guy."

But what about last season's roller coaster? Peterson had a great take.

"I think during those periods of time, he was going through a little funk," Peterson explained. "I know as a player the most important thing to have is confidence and being sure what you are doing on the field. From what I was able to see, maybe it was a mixture of both, taking those hits and being a little rattled at times. But there were also those examples he was focused and played big in big games. He played big in Week 17 against Green Bay. He made a crucial throw to the left side of the field to Michael Jenkins to put us in position to win that game. That's a demonstration of what he can do on the field to help this team win."

There are some good comments from Peterson regarding Jennings and Ponder as well.

Schein concluded with this:

The Vikings shocked the world with a playoff berth last season. Coming off an ACL injury, Peterson had one of the great individual seasons in sports history. Minnesota put together an excellent draft.

The future is bright for the Vikings. Christian Ponder is a reason why -- and he will prove it this year. Just ask Adrian.

The arrival of Desmond Bishop virtually guarantees that Christian Ponder will ascend to the ranks of Manning, Brees and Rodgers.

(Since everybody is talking about Ponder in the Bishop thread, I thought I'd reverse it here. )

Jeffbleedspurple wrote:If you can't take Peterson's word on it then whose word can you take? Go Peterson, I mean Ponder.

AP is always right. If he thinks Ponder is the answer, then Ponder is the answer!!! Maybe Peterson should become a player/head coach like Bill Russell did for the Celtics.

JEC334 wrote: AP is always right. If he thinks Ponder is the answer, then Ponder is the answer!!! Maybe Peterson should become a player/head coach like Bill Russell did for the Celtics.

Yep. When I think AD, I think "Wow, this is a bright young man. Wise beyond his years". First thing I think.

A teammate's take. If there's ANYTHING we should believe, it's that.

We could have Tebow in here right now and he'd be talking about how much better his release is. And how much his mechanics have improved. We had to listen to the same fluff every offseason. We can only hope at some point in the next 50 years we'll have a QB that it isn't just fluff...

That was my point.

Peterson had a great opportunity to take the high road, talk up a competition and speak in cliché when we chatted Friday on our SiriusXM "Schein on Sports" radio show. Instead, he spoke convincingly and authoritatively on Ponder.

Really? Great opportunity? Give me a break. Ponder is the starter and no one is going to talk up anything.

Purple Jesus wrote:
We could have Tebow in here right now and he'd be talking about how much better his release is. And how much his mechanics have improved. We had to listen to the same fluff every offseason. We can only hope at some point in the next 50 years we'll have a QB that it isn't just fluff...

How often have you heard teammates trash each other? Almost never or not at least while they are still on the same team.[/quote]

It happens more than we think. Read the latest one in Frisco?

The point wasn't that Peterson didn't trash Ponder. It was that, given the chance to speak in bland cliches and platitudes, he instead spoke convincingly and without hesitation about his QB. If he has genuine confidence in Ponder, that's a good sign.

Mothman wrote:The point wasn't that Peterson didn't trash Ponder. It was that, given the chance to speak in bland cliches and platitudes, he instead spoke convincingly and without hesitation about his QB. If he has genuine confidence in Ponder, that's a good sign.

I think a lot of people have genuine confidence in Ponder. If nothing else they have some genuine hopeful thinking. So far, I think some of the fans struggle the most with believing in him. I've read and heard mostly good things about Ponder from professionals; read and heard a lot of yucky things from fans. Take a guess who I'm going to side with. I think I'm just going to stay positive and see how it plays out. I'd love love LOVE for Ponder to be our guy, but if he isn't...is anyone really going to be surprised? We aren't exactly awesome at getting ourselves franchise quarterbacks. But dang it, at least we are finally trying to do it the right way. That's inspiring in itself! Besides, as Vikings fans, don't we kind of have to get a little bit excited about the little things? lol

MelanieMFunk wrote: I think a lot of people have genuine confidence in Ponder. If nothing else they have some genuine hopeful thinking. So far, I think some of the fans struggle the most with believing in him. I've read and heard mostly good things about Ponder from professionals; read and heard a lot of yucky things from fans. Take a guess who I'm going to side with. I think I'm just going to stay positive and see how it plays out. I'd love love LOVE for Ponder to be our guy, but if he isn't...is anyone really going to be surprised? We aren't exactly awesome at getting ourselves franchise quarterbacks. But dang it, at least we are finally trying to do it the right way. That's inspiring in itself! Besides, as Vikings fans, don't we kind of have to get a little bit excited about the little things? lol

It's pretty sad that our only franchise QB was Fran Tarkenton. I think QB play has been this team weakness for years. Ponder better be the answer. Hell, we spent a first round pick on him, he better step it up. I just want to see a more confident Ponder this upcoming season. I want to see a Ponder who isn't afraid to take some chances and not so quick to settle for the bubble screens and check downs. If Ponder doesn't get it done this year, I will lose all faith in him and go back to my anti-Ponder attitude until he is released from the team.

JEC334 wrote:It's pretty sad that our only franchise QB was Fran Tarkenton. I think QB play has been this team weakness for years. Ponder better be the answer. Hell, we spent a first round pick on him, he better step it up. I just want to see a more confident Ponder this upcoming season. I want to see a Ponder who isn't afraid to take some chances and not so quick to settle for the bubble screens and check downs. If Ponder doesn't get it done this year, I will lose all faith in him and go back to my anti-Ponder attitude until he is released from the team.

Well look at New England. One franchise QB. Brady. Chicago? 0? Franchise QB's are far and few. To get one helps. But look how long Manning was in Indy. And that equaled 1 SB. Favre in GB. 1 Super Bowl, 2 appearances. Having a franchise QB is not the only thing needed for success. Does it help yes. Not a requirement. Having a good QB is. Someone who won't throw away the game. Someone who makes good decisions. That's the QB I want Ponder to be. I would rather Ponder be like Eli than Payton. Eli will finish with more rings than Payton.

JEC334 wrote:It's pretty sad that our only franchise QB was Fran Tarkenton.

How are you defining "franchise QB"? If you're talking about truly elite QBs, they're rare by definition and most teams probably haven't had more than 1 or 2 in the past 50 years. The Packers have had 3 (Starr, Favre and now Rodgers). Has anybody else? The Steelers had Bradhsaw and Roethlisberger. The 49ers had Montana and Young. The Colts had Unitas and Manning (and Luck might be their third). Dallas had Staubach and Aikman.

The term is ill-defined so it's hard to say but it's an interesting subject. The Vikes have certainly had a few QBs since Tarkenton that played at a high level. Kramer could compete with the best of the best but ultimately, personal problems led to inconsistency and once he seemed to get past that, injuries messed up his career. Culpepper had arguably developed into a franchise QB by 2003-04 but one severe injury basically destroyed his career. Maybe that's pushing the definition too far but he was certainly approaching franchise QB status by that point.

I think QB play has been this team weakness for years. Ponder better be the answer. Hell, we spent a first round pick on him, he better step it up. I just want to see a more confident Ponder this upcoming season. I want to see a Ponder who isn't afraid to take some chances and not so quick to settle for the bubble screens and check downs.

He wasn't "settling" for bubble screens. Those are designed plays, not the QB turning away from something open deep to check down. If they call a bubble screen, that's Ponder's first read, not some compromise he's making because he's "afraid".

It didn't seem to me like Ponder threw a particularly high percentage of checkdowns but he did throw a higher percentage of short passes than most QBs and that was clearly by design. We can debate forever whether that choice was made due to Ponder's limitations, limitations of the receivers, and/or o-line, strengths of the players, Musgrave's personal preference or all of the above but it was clearly intentional. It often worked too, even though many fans don't seem to care about that. It doesn't seem to matter as much that the Vikes won 10 games with their strategy as it matters that Ponder's yardage totals or yards-a-pass-travelled-through-the-air average, etc. weren't great. When did throwing deep become more important than winning?

If Ponder doesn't get it done this year, I will lose all faith in him and go back to my anti-Ponder attitude until he is released from the team.

What constitutes "getting it done"? People constantly talk about how Ponder will get "no excuses" and there's a clearly a sizeable percentage of the fan base gearing up to lash out at him if he doesn't meet their personal expectations but what's "getting it done"? It seems to me he got it done quite a bit last year and even when they were winning games, it wasn't enough to satisfy people. I'm not suggesting we should be wholly satisfied with Ponder's performance thus far because he obviously has growing and improving to do. He needs to be better but fans need to show a little patience too.