Peterson plea deal...

[The Breeze]

What's up Viking family?

I'm trying to understand exactly how does AD feel as though the Vikings did him wrong?

It's not exactly clear as his comments were not specific to that end. There has been lots of speculation around the suggestion that Kevin Warren in the front office was involved in efforts to keep AD off the field last season. He was just promoted, which increases the speculation....for example: Maybe Warren's efforts were being guided from further up the food chain and he is just the face of it....hence he gets promoted for his team effort. Peterson has stated something to the effect that his discourse with the FO has been less than transparent and that he felt ambushed about going on the exempt list.

Or, did he expect to be reinstated after he copped that plea deal?

This is what he was said to have been told by Troy Vincent at the commissioners office. He would go on the list, clear the courts, get a two game suspension with time served, surrender the equivalent in game checks and be reinstated. It is said that is why he coped a plea to begin with....he was assured by Vincent he would get back on the field.

That's more or less my memory of it. If I'm wrong someone will correct me...it is the internet after all.

[The Breeze]

It definitely has permeated into all journalism, not just sports.

I was of the mind that the world of sports was one of the last bastions of responsible reporting left to us.....

You highlighted what seems to fuel the death of the "malice principle'' quite well. When the people covering the stars are competing with them for stardom it seems to create a systemically dysfunctional conflict of interests.

It reminds me of this book that was passed on to me last winter.....right up your alley, would not surprise me if you have already seen it:

http://www.amazon.com/This-Town-Parties ... 0399170685

[Husker Vike]

I really wonder what the Vikings could get for him in a trade?, Cleveland has extra picks but maybe they will stay with Crowell and West at RB. Jacksonville would be a possibility as they need a true no. 1 RB,and a reason to put some fans in the seats. Oakland has the second most cap room, but may stick with Latavius Murray. I wish they would be stupid enough to trade us Kahlil Mack ,but that ain't gonna happen. Looking in to 2016 San Diego is projected to have the most cap room and if Ryan Mathews leaves this year as expected , they could be in the market.

[Raptorman]

I really wonder what the Vikings could get for him in a trade?, Cleveland has extra picks but maybe they will stay with Crowell and West at RB. Jacksonville would be a possibility as they need a true no. 1 RB,and a reason to put some fans in the seats. Oakland has the second most cap room, but may stick with Latavius Murray. I wish they would be stupid enough to trade us Kahlil Mack ,but that ain't gonna happen. Looking in to 2016 San Diego is projected to have the most cap room and if Ryan Mathews leaves this year as expected , they could be in the market.

Sure, trade him to the Browns for their second 1st round pick. Then take Parker at 11 and Melvin Gordon with the Browns pick. I could live with that.

[Angels Wings]

It's not exactly clear as his comments were not specific to that end. There has been lots of speculation around the suggestion that Kevin Warren in the front office was involved in efforts to keep AD off the field last season. He was just promoted, which increases the speculation....for example: Maybe Warren's efforts were being guided from further up the food chain and he is just the face of it....hence he gets promoted for his team effort. Peterson has stated something to the effect that his discourse with the FO has been less than transparent and that he felt ambushed about going on the exempt list.

This is what he was said to have been told by Troy Vincent at the commissioners office. He would go on the list, clear the courts, get a two game suspension with time served, surrender the equivalent in game checks and be reinstated. It is said that is why he coped a plea to begin with....he was assured by Vincent he would get back on the field.

That's more or less my memory of it. If I'm wrong someone will correct me...it is the internet after all.

If I remember, Radisson had either pulled or suspended it's sponsorship of the Vikings and whomever was connected to them had done the same thing; heck, even this board shut down. The team's hands were tied and once again, he was being paid while on the list.

The person that he needs to have beef with is Troy Vincent who flat out lied to him.

[The Breeze]

I mean just about every team has a workhorse and a spell back. As for Mckinnon, we have no clue if he can stay healthy and he's 5'8. Just because he's an athlete and strong doesn't mean he can carry the load. I mean how many 5'8 workhorses are out there?? Not a whole lot. If AP is gone and we go into this season relying on McKinnon and Asiata, it could be one of the dumbest things we could do. Because if McKinnon goes down which could be very possible if he was to see 15-20 carries per game, then we're back to square one with Asiata. We would be going in blind with McKinnon, not knowing what to expect. There are a lot of 5'11-6'0 backs in this draft, go get a guy with some size that can take the pounding

This question piqued my interest and I couldn't figure out why until I realized height has no real bearing on durability for RB. In fact it could be suggested that a more diminutive back takes less of a beating.

I think the truth is that there just isn't all that big of a number of guys under 5 10 built to run the football......but here are some guys just off the top of my head:
McKinnon 5'9" 216
Maurice Jones Drew 5'8" 205
Joe Morris 5'7" 195
Darrin Nelson 5'9" 184
Barry Sanders 5'8" 203
Ray Rice 5'8"
Frank Gore 5'9"



Walter Payton Ladainian Tomlinson and Marshal Faulk were each only 5'10" and only Tomlinson out weighed McKinnon


Then I came across these articles....evidently the question has come up a lot:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=489 Running backs and BMI

A weighted average using rushing yards produces an average BMI of 29.6; the top 10 rushers of all time have a BMI of 29.7. It looks pretty clear that a BMI of close to 30 is ideal for a running back. Barry Sanders is sometimes remembered as a small back, but that's really a misnomer. He was short, but he had a BMI of 30.9. Curtis Martin and Walter Payton had BMIs below the average, but most of the top RBs had BMIs over 30. Emmit Smith and LaDainian Tomlinson are the exact same height and weight (BMI of 31.7), and Earl Campbell, Shaun Alexander and Marshall Faulk -- three MVPs -- have BMIs in the thirties. Marcus Allen, Thurman Thomas, Eric Dickerson and Tiki Barber had a ton of success with BMIs in the 27.0-28.7 range, but all relied on other skills besides sheer power. And outside of Barber, all entered the league in the '80s, when everyone was a lot smaller.


The BMI formula is simply:

703 * weight/ (height^2)

Mckinnon is 31.9 the only guys in the study who were higher:

Jerome Bettis 35.1
Jamal Lewis 33.5
Ricky Williams 32.4
Earl Campbell 32.4
Jonathon Stewart 32.6


http://www.footballperspective.com/runn ... d-heavier/

As you can see, running back used to be a tall man’s position. But average running back height has steadily decreased, dropping 1.8 inches from 1965 to 2013. At the same time, running backs are getting heavier, although players at all positions are getting heavier. Still, I thought it would be useful to calculate an average weighted weight of running backs since 1950 using the same formula:

https://www.bsports.com/statsinsights/n ... estigation

Like most red-blooded Americans (over forty million to be exact), I camped myself in front of the television to watch the two Championship games last Sunday. Amidst the excitement of the day and the general revelry that comes after a team you have rooted for since you were a child makes the Super Bowl (Go 49ers!), I noticed an interesting trend in both contests: diminutive running backs. Among the players that carried the ball Sunday were Ravens RB Ray Rice (5’8”), 49ers RBs Frank Gore (5’9”) and LaMichael James (5’9”), Patriots RBs Danny Woodhead (5’8”) and Shane Vereen (5’9”) and Falcons RBs Michael Turner (5’10”) and Jacquizz Rodgers (5’6”).

None of this diminishes the point that going into the season with just McKinnon and Asiata would be less than sound. But we don't know either way about McKinnon....he hurt himself lifting weights.


But small and short are 2 different things. Jerrick Mckinnon is a big dude. I'm fine drafting another back....better yet picking up a solid FA ....but if they do it before round 4 I'll be disappoint.

[The Breeze]

The person that he needs to have beef with is Troy Vincent who flat out lied to him.

It's possible he lied....but according to prior precedents and the CBA most everyone commenting with knowledge figured something along the lines of what Vincent described....and then Goodell flipped the script to the point that the players union sued for breaching the CBA.

I think Goodell blindsided everyone in this matter and there's not a lot anyone can do except calm down and talk it through once AD is reinstated.


Seems everyone took a turn getting blindsided in all of this...... Janay Rice, Peterson's kid, all the fans and FO's, sponsors ...everyone. A really weird year for the NFL with more to come evidently.

[Pondering Her Percy]

This question piqued my interest and I couldn't figure out why until I realized height has no real bearing on durability for RB. In fact it could be suggested that a more diminutive back takes less of a beating.

I think the truth is that there just isn't all that big of a number of guys under 5 10 built to run the football......but here are some guys just off the top of my head:
McKinnon 5'9" 216
Maurice Jones Drew 5'8" 205
Joe Morris 5'7" 195
Darrin Nelson 5'9" 184
Barry Sanders 5'8" 203
Ray Rice 5'8"
Frank Gore 5'9"



Walter Payton Ladainian Tomlinson and Marshal Faulk were each only 5'10" and only Tomlinson out weighed McKinnon


Then I came across these articles....evidently the question has come up a lot:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=489 I don't get the symbols in the formula or I'd do Mckinnon's......but I will wager he is on the plus side of 30.

http://www.footballperspective.com/runn ... d-heavier/
https://www.bsports.com/statsinsights/n ... estigation



None of this diminishes the point that going into the season with just McKinnon and Asiata would be less than sound. But we don't know either way about McKinnon....he hurt himself lifting weights.


But small and short are 2 different things. Jerrick Mckinnon is a big dude. I'm fine drafting another back....better yet picking up a solid FA ....but if they do it before round 4 I'll be disappoint.

I understand where you're coming from and I appreciate the amount of detail put into this post but this.......

But we don't know either way about McKinnon....he hurt himself lifting weights.

....is never a good thing. If he hurts his back (which isn't an easy injury to get over and can be nagging throughout a career) lifting weights, what makes you think he can carry the load, getting 15-20 carries a game and take a pounding?? That not something to just look over and think "yeah we're fine and dandy" going into the season with McKinnon, Asiata and some Joe Blow 6th round RB.

Having a legitimate running game is just as important is having a legitimate passing game. If AP doesn't come back and we don't go after a RB in free agency (which we probably won't since we won't know about AP until April) then I think it's an absolute must to draft a RB within the first 3 rounds. The 4th being the absolute latest and I'm not even big on that. We need a good sized RB that can run in between the tackles, break through the second level and make guys miss. I can't imagine there will be too many of these after the 4th round which is why we better not wait that long.

Look at Cincy....they drafted Gio in the damn first round!! They soon realized that Gio couldn't take on a full load and what do they do?? Take Hill in the second who ended up being an absolute stud for them and gave them a completely new identity at RB. A Jeremy Hill type RB is what we need and McKinnon can easily play Gio's new role. If we go any other way on this, it would be one of the dumbest things we could do, especially with this draft class of RBs

[Angels Wings]

It's possible he lied....but according to prior precedents and the CBA most everyone commenting with knowledge figured something along the lines of what Vincent described....and then Goodell flipped the script to the point that the players union sued for breaching the CBA.

I think Goodell blindsided everyone in this matter and there's not a lot anyone can do except calm down and talk it through once AD is reinstated.


Seems everyone took a turn getting blindsided in all of this...... Janay Rice, Peterson's kid, all the fans and FO's, sponsors ...everyone. A really weird year for the NFL with more to come evidently.

There was a tape of a conversation between Peterson and Vincent where Troy basically implied to AD that if he paid the equivalent of X amount of game checks that he would be reinstated. Vincent then flat out lied when Peterson referred to the conversation and got caught in his own lie and weaseled his way out of it...

[The Breeze]

I understand where you're coming from and I appreciate the amount of detail put into this post but this.......
....is never a good thing. If he hurts his back (which isn't an easy injury to get over and can be nagging throughout a career) lifting weights, what makes you think he can carry the load, getting 15-20 carries a game and take a pounding?? That not something to just look over and think "yeah we're fine and dandy" going into the season with McKinnon, Asiata and some Joe Blow 6th round RB.

Having a legitimate running game is just as important is having a legitimate passing game. If AP doesn't come back and we don't go after a RB in free agency (which we probably won't since we won't know about AP until April) then I think it's an absolute must to draft a RB within the first 3 rounds. The 4th being the absolute latest and I'm not even big on that. We need a good sized RB that can run in between the tackles, break through the second level and make guys miss. I can't imagine there will be too many of these after the 4th round which is why we better not wait that long.

Look at Cincy....they drafted Gio in the damn first round!! They soon realized that Gio couldn't take on a full load and what do they do?? Take Hill in the second who ended up being an absolute stud for them and gave them a completely new identity at RB. A Jeremy Hill type RB is what we need and McKinnon can easily play Gio's new role. If we go any other way on this, it would be one of the dumbest things we could do, especially with this draft class of RBs

I'm not really disagreeing with you other than to say McKinnon's durability is an unknown, which we agree on. If he hurt himself doing dead lifts, for example, that wouldn't suggest to me that he can't take hits...it suggests he needs to limit himself some in the weight room. I don't know anyone who knows the facts of his injury or subsequent surgery. So assuming it's career threanting is just as baseless as assuming it's minor IMO. I would think the people doing the drafting have the inside track on all of that and are up to snuff on everything you layed out as far as the running game being important. I just don't think our current running game is in any more dire straits than our run defense and o-line, so if the draft is deep in backs and they are determined to draft one I would think they could do it later. Justin Forsett was a 7th rounder.....but I was thinking 3rd or 4th. Obviously what they do in FA will fill in some blanks.

I guess how they draft will tell us all we need to know about what they think of McKinnon and his future too. I don't want to believe that they drafted a 3rd rd athletic freak to be a situational player....but if his injury is a serious one it may show up when they draft.

They also know that they hold every card with Peterson unless he deems it necessary to hold out. That plays into it all as well I reckon. It's a pretty funky situation in case no one has noticed.

Thanks for asking the question. I like those kinds of trend studies....especially when I have a PC rather than a phone to play on.

[The Breeze]

ahere was a tape of a conversation between Peterson and Vincent where Troy basically implied to AD that if he paid the equivalent of X amount of game checks that he would be reinstated. Vincent then flat out lied when Peterson referred to the conversation and got caught in his own lie and weaseled his way out of it...

sounds like you know just as much as I do

[Mothman]

You mean Adrian doesn't like that?

Yes, that's what I meant:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... minnesota/

[Mothman]

Agreed because right now AD feels as though the Vikings did him wrong when they really had no other choice in the matter.

Actually, he's made it clear that he understands why the Vikings acted to protect their brand and organization. His beef seems to be with specific individuals in the organization. At this point, that seems to be Warren and... ? We don't have details. For all we know, some members of the Vikings did indeed "do him wrong".

If I remember, Radisson had either pulled or suspended it's sponsorship of the Vikings and whomever was connected to them had done the same thing; heck, even this board shut down. The team's hands were tied and once again, he was being paid while on the list.

People keep bringing up that he was paid while on the list but the Vikings had no choice but to either pay him or cut him. In other words, unless they were prepared to release him and get nothing in return, paying him wasn't an act of generosity. The Vikings were likely just protecting their own interests.

Peterson wanted to play. It was obviously better to be paid than to not be paid but he still missed almost an entire season of his career in his prime.

[Norv Zimmer]

The way I see it is that the Vikings hold all the cards in the matter. AD is under contract with the Vikings, they could say "you are playing for us, or you can sit out and not get paid and probably get fined." In that situation I don't see Peterson sitting out.... not after losing pretty much all of his sponsors and having to pay likely a hefty amount of child support. But, in my opinion if the opportunity arises where they could trade him somewhere (for a 1st and 4th imo) I think they would do it. Drafting a stud O Line run blocker in the first round would probably help sway his thinking too.

[chicagopurple]

I agree! Moreover, If he REALLY wants out of MN the best thing he could do is be strong and silent, come out and have a Boss year at RB, THEN go out on the market when everyone is dazzled by his mad skills and fogotten his sad personal history. Unfortunately, I think he is under the direction of some jerk-off agents/handlers.