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6'4" 275 lbs is undersized? Ummm no it isn't.S197 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:19 pmUndersized but draws comparison to Everson Griffen.J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:14 am I'm really starting to like Kwity Paye from Michigan.
Recently read a great article about his story, which is almost beyond belief. The stuff movies are made of. Born into war-torn Sierra Lione, the survivor of unthinkable atrocities on his people and his family. Dirt poor growing up in Rhode Island after his mother, his brother and he escaped to America. Promised his mother if she would send him to a Catholic school that she couldn't afford without working 3 jobs, he'd reward her by getting a college scholarship. He was a running back and defensive end in high school, playing both ways, and had dozens of offers for both positions.
Do yourself a favor and read this.
Paye is a guy who only knows hard work and dedication. He was all-academic Big Ten in the classroom and All-America on the field. He runs the 40 in 4.5 at 261 pounds. Forget the numbers and the so-called lack of sacks. Danielle Hunter was in the same situation coming out of LSU. Get this guy on the field with Andre Patterson, and I think you've got something.
I know the Vikings need O-line help, and I won't be upset if they take a good one at 14. But I'll be very happy if they take Paye. The guy just screams character, and the measurables are unquestioned. Pretty much, he's an animal physically.
https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/kwity-paye
If Vikings trade up to get either Slater or Penei and Slater or Penei becomes an elite player for a decade, it would be worth trading upNorv Zimmer wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:22 am All of the hot rumors for the Vikings at 14 are that they are wanting to move up to draft Slater or Penei.
Please...... No. I really dont want them to move up to draft a O lineman. I don't want them to move up at all.
I think they will trade up. The top LT always go early. Problem to No 8. Our 1 and both 3rds. Then we will start that 4th round nonsense.RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:23 amIf Vikings trade up to get either Slater or Penei and Slater or Penei becomes an elite player for a decade, it would be worth trading upNorv Zimmer wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:22 am All of the hot rumors for the Vikings at 14 are that they are wanting to move up to draft Slater or Penei.
Please...... No. I really dont want them to move up to draft a O lineman. I don't want them to move up at all.
I do not think Vikings need to trade up, I think Slater will be there at #14CharVike wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:58 amI think they will trade up. The top LT always go early. Problem to No 8. Our 1 and both 3rds. Then we will start that 4th round nonsense.RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:23 am
If Vikings trade up to get either Slater or Penei and Slater or Penei becomes an elite player for a decade, it would be worth trading up
It is so hard to 2nd guess the draft. Always surprises, always somebody who falls at least some. I think there is a fair chance Slater will be there @ 14. That said, the rumor mill is in full swing this time of year. Was that an intentional leak/rumor? Teams like to play close to the vest, so when I hear the Vikings want to move up for an OT I wonder what their real objective is.RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:56 pmI do not think Vikings need to trade up, I think Slater will be there at #14
One of Darrisaw, Vera-Tucker or Slater will almost certainly be there at #14, and any one of those will fit the bill for the Vikings OL.RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:56 pmI do not think Vikings need to trade up, I think Slater will be there at #14
Move up for a true difference-maker. If Pitts is still around when pick #8 comes up, maybe make a play for him, but nobody besides Lawrence is worth what it would take to move up this year.VikingTom wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:54 pmIt is so hard to 2nd guess the draft. Always surprises, always somebody who falls at least some. I think there is a fair chance Slater will be there @ 14. That said, the rumor mill is in full swing this time of year. Was that an intentional leak/rumor? Teams like to play close to the vest, so when I hear the Vikings want to move up for an OT I wonder what their real objective is.RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:56 pm
I do not think Vikings need to trade up, I think Slater will be there at #14
We will find out in a couple days.
I would love Ronnie Perkins, I would like to see Vikings trade down and get Perkins, Perkins is a little high at #14VikingLord wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:32 pmOne of Darrisaw, Vera-Tucker or Slater will almost certainly be there at #14, and any one of those will fit the bill for the Vikings OL.RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:56 pm
I do not think Vikings need to trade up, I think Slater will be there at #14
As for Paye (or DE in general), I'm not as sold on any of them when the Vikings pick in the 1st. Phillips probably merits #14 if he's healthy and motivated, but I'm just not convinced. That's a high spot to take a guy who retired from football as a college player due to concussion issues (or who wanted to pursue a rap career - I've seen both explanations for why he stopped playing football). He's got the physical attributes and the skills to be a top DE, but something tells me he should be avoided at #14.
Paye probably merits the pick as well, but there is something off about him. In college, he was a very effective run defender and is likely to continue to be that in the pros, but he's not much of a pass rusher. I've heard that explained in a few ways, and yes, it's fair to say the same was true about Hunter coming out of LSU, but LSU didn't ask Hunter to rush the passer. I'm not sure the same is true about Michigan and Paye. Paye has had opportunities to rush the passer and for whatever reason he just hasn't had a lot of success. It's not his motor or his physical abilities. He just seems like he's a solid read-and-react defender (great for stopping the run), while not so great and forcing blockers to read and react to him when he's the aggressor and is trying to get to the passer.
It's a mentality thing from what I can see, kind of along the lines of what I think holds Cousins back at times. When Cousins struggles it's usually because he's sitting back and waiting for something to come open rather than throwing it open or anticipating it. If Paye mentally is checking the boxes regarding misdirection or delayed handoffs or whatever when he's rushing the passer, he's going to keep struggling to throw his blocker off because he's not fully committing.
Maybe that can be coached out of someone. There is some precedent that it can. But if it can't in Paye's case then the Vikings wind up with a strong run defending DE and are still looking for a guy who can get after the QBs of the North. And while being able to defend the run is a good skill in a DE, you don't want to spend #14 on that guy. You want to spend #14 on a DE who can do both.
Hunter fell to the 4th round for a reason, and IIRC, the above was that reason. Teams weren't convinced he could make the leap and become a great all-around DE. In Hunter's case they were wrong, but that valid concern dropped him well down the board. Paye has the same concern. Taking him at #14 would be a stretch.
The DE's I'm looking at in this draft are guys like Ronnie Perkins, Payton Turner, Cameron Sample, or my personal favorite, the 6'7" Elerson Smith. I believe Smith got up to around 270, but if he can play at that weight or a little bigger he's going to be a monster pass rusher with that length and the burst he has. I expect both Perkins and Turner to be gone before #78 rolls around, but Sample and Smith will likely be there and either one would be a great pickup in the 3rd.
He's not that tall or that heavy. If you had taken 5 seconds to click the link you would see what I'm talking about.Norv Zimmer wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:27 am6'4" 275 lbs is undersized? Ummm no it isn't.S197 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:19 pm
Undersized but draws comparison to Everson Griffen.
https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/kwity-paye
Like Perkins a lot too (think we both follow the same ffb program, ha). #14 is way too high. No way should he be a first imo. Still like him a lot.RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:14 pmI would love Ronnie Perkins, I would like to see Vikings trade down and get Perkins, Perkins is a little high at #14VikingLord wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:32 pm
One of Darrisaw, Vera-Tucker or Slater will almost certainly be there at #14, and any one of those will fit the bill for the Vikings OL.
As for Paye (or DE in general), I'm not as sold on any of them when the Vikings pick in the 1st. Phillips probably merits #14 if he's healthy and motivated, but I'm just not convinced. That's a high spot to take a guy who retired from football as a college player due to concussion issues (or who wanted to pursue a rap career - I've seen both explanations for why he stopped playing football). He's got the physical attributes and the skills to be a top DE, but something tells me he should be avoided at #14.
Paye probably merits the pick as well, but there is something off about him. In college, he was a very effective run defender and is likely to continue to be that in the pros, but he's not much of a pass rusher. I've heard that explained in a few ways, and yes, it's fair to say the same was true about Hunter coming out of LSU, but LSU didn't ask Hunter to rush the passer. I'm not sure the same is true about Michigan and Paye. Paye has had opportunities to rush the passer and for whatever reason he just hasn't had a lot of success. It's not his motor or his physical abilities. He just seems like he's a solid read-and-react defender (great for stopping the run), while not so great and forcing blockers to read and react to him when he's the aggressor and is trying to get to the passer.
It's a mentality thing from what I can see, kind of along the lines of what I think holds Cousins back at times. When Cousins struggles it's usually because he's sitting back and waiting for something to come open rather than throwing it open or anticipating it. If Paye mentally is checking the boxes regarding misdirection or delayed handoffs or whatever when he's rushing the passer, he's going to keep struggling to throw his blocker off because he's not fully committing.
Maybe that can be coached out of someone. There is some precedent that it can. But if it can't in Paye's case then the Vikings wind up with a strong run defending DE and are still looking for a guy who can get after the QBs of the North. And while being able to defend the run is a good skill in a DE, you don't want to spend #14 on that guy. You want to spend #14 on a DE who can do both.
Hunter fell to the 4th round for a reason, and IIRC, the above was that reason. Teams weren't convinced he could make the leap and become a great all-around DE. In Hunter's case they were wrong, but that valid concern dropped him well down the board. Paye has the same concern. Taking him at #14 would be a stretch.
The DE's I'm looking at in this draft are guys like Ronnie Perkins, Payton Turner, Cameron Sample, or my personal favorite, the 6'7" Elerson Smith. I believe Smith got up to around 270, but if he can play at that weight or a little bigger he's going to be a monster pass rusher with that length and the burst he has. I expect both Perkins and Turner to be gone before #78 rolls around, but Sample and Smith will likely be there and either one would be a great pickup in the 3rd.
I am a Sooners fan too so it is nice to see a Sooners and Vikings fan on the forum, I want Creed Humphrey too but I do not think that is going to happen thoughmakila wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:14 pmLike Perkins a lot too (think we both follow the same ffb program, ha). #14 is way too high. No way should he be a first imo. Still like him a lot.RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:14 pm
I would love Ronnie Perkins, I would like to see Vikings trade down and get Perkins, Perkins is a little high at #14
They may like one of those guys better. I don't like picking OL that high either. This isn't even a need pick. It's a must have at this point. But they can fill it with a 3rd or 4th rounder. I only posted that based on stuff I read. That Smith seems interesting. Too Tall Smith. That would PO a few old time Poke fans. But if he can rush the passer why not. 270 is almost to slight for his height.VikingLord wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:32 pmOne of Darrisaw, Vera-Tucker or Slater will almost certainly be there at #14, and any one of those will fit the bill for the Vikings OL.RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:56 pm
I do not think Vikings need to trade up, I think Slater will be there at #14
As for Paye (or DE in general), I'm not as sold on any of them when the Vikings pick in the 1st. Phillips probably merits #14 if he's healthy and motivated, but I'm just not convinced. That's a high spot to take a guy who retired from football as a college player due to concussion issues (or who wanted to pursue a rap career - I've seen both explanations for why he stopped playing football). He's got the physical attributes and the skills to be a top DE, but something tells me he should be avoided at #14.
Paye probably merits the pick as well, but there is something off about him. In college, he was a very effective run defender and is likely to continue to be that in the pros, but he's not much of a pass rusher. I've heard that explained in a few ways, and yes, it's fair to say the same was true about Hunter coming out of LSU, but LSU didn't ask Hunter to rush the passer. I'm not sure the same is true about Michigan and Paye. Paye has had opportunities to rush the passer and for whatever reason he just hasn't had a lot of success. It's not his motor or his physical abilities. He just seems like he's a solid read-and-react defender (great for stopping the run), while not so great and forcing blockers to read and react to him when he's the aggressor and is trying to get to the passer.
It's a mentality thing from what I can see, kind of along the lines of what I think holds Cousins back at times. When Cousins struggles it's usually because he's sitting back and waiting for something to come open rather than throwing it open or anticipating it. If Paye mentally is checking the boxes regarding misdirection or delayed handoffs or whatever when he's rushing the passer, he's going to keep struggling to throw his blocker off because he's not fully committing.
Maybe that can be coached out of someone. There is some precedent that it can. But if it can't in Paye's case then the Vikings wind up with a strong run defending DE and are still looking for a guy who can get after the QBs of the North. And while being able to defend the run is a good skill in a DE, you don't want to spend #14 on that guy. You want to spend #14 on a DE who can do both.
Hunter fell to the 4th round for a reason, and IIRC, the above was that reason. Teams weren't convinced he could make the leap and become a great all-around DE. In Hunter's case they were wrong, but that valid concern dropped him well down the board. Paye has the same concern. Taking him at #14 would be a stretch.
The DE's I'm looking at in this draft are guys like Ronnie Perkins, Payton Turner, Cameron Sample, or my personal favorite, the 6'7" Elerson Smith. I believe Smith got up to around 270, but if he can play at that weight or a little bigger he's going to be a monster pass rusher with that length and the burst he has. I expect both Perkins and Turner to be gone before #78 rolls around, but Sample and Smith will likely be there and either one would be a great pickup in the 3rd.
If given the choice between a great LT at 14 and a great DE, you go great DE every time. You look at teams who have won with non-HOF QBs and all of them have one thing in common: A great pass rush. If you go into a game with a handicap at the most important position on the team, you need an equalizer to bring the other team's QB down to your QB's level, and a great pass rush can do that.CharVike wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:35 pm They may like one of those guys better. I don't like picking OL that high either. This isn't even a need pick. It's a must have at this point. But they can fill it with a 3rd or 4th rounder. I only posted that based on stuff I read. That Smith seems interesting. Too Tall Smith. That would PO a few old time Poke fans. But if he can rush the passer why not. 270 is almost to slight for his height.