Vikings Message Board.Com

Dames wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:53 pm

The negotiator wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:47 pm

There’s an interesting article on twitter from Nick Olsen@ NickOlsenNFL in the past couple of days “Updated QB
Ratings by EPA/Play and Passing Grade”. I can’t bring it on to the thread.
Interesting chart. Wondering if anyone has the skills to transfer it over to this thread. Worthwhile QB comparison for 2019.

https://twitter.com/NickOlsonNFL/status ... 3363284992

The negotiator wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:54 pm Thanks Dames

Dames wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:56 pm

The negotiator wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:54 pm Thanks Dames

No problem. I'm a big fan of Nick's stuff.

The negotiator wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:54 pm

Dames wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:53 pm

https://twitter.com/NickOlsonNFL/status ... 3363284992

Thanks Dames

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:00 am

fiestavike wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:43 am

I'm not hunting for dirt, and it wouldn't have been heroic to run the play as it was designed. These things don't exist in a vacuum. 1.97 isn't a long time on a play that was designed to be an immediate slant route. Cousins just got a little scared and skittish and hesitated, and the margin for error was pretty small since they left the DE unblocked on the play. I'm really enjoying seeing the offensive line perform as well as it has this year.

Dude what??!! Go watch the play.

First of all, how do you know what the play call was or how it was designed?

Second, how did he get skittish? If you watch the play, nothing signifies him getting "skittish and scared".

Third, you're saying you're enjoying how the OL has played this year but somehow dont think they are to blame on this play? What fricken play call is designed to let a DE go unblocked? Reiff looked inside on a guy that was 1 on 1 with Elflein. He didnt even look at Quinn.

If you look at the screenshot, nobody is running a slant. Diggs and Rudolph and Bisi are all running in routes. Not one of them has even turned around yet and even at this exact point, it is impossible for Cousins to get that ball out because if he pulls it back to throw, he would be stripped sacked because you can see Quinn's arm directly behind Cousins. So essentially, what this is saying is that he would have had to get this out even earlier than at the time of this screenshot, so even quicker than 1.97 seconds, when clearly the WRs arent even close to coming out of their routes given they arent even out of them during this shot.

It literally baffles me that a fan is questioning Cousins on this play, saying he got scared, skittish and hesitated and didnt get rid of the ball quick enough when a DE goes unblocked and on his lap in 1.97 seconds. Literally BAFFLES me!! That sir, is indeed hunting for dirt. Fans are getting THIS nitpicky with Cousins and how quick he gets the ball out. Never have I seen this with any other Vikings QB, ever. If he holds the ball too long and gets sacked, by all means, say he held it too long. But 1.97 seconds when he had a free rusher on his blindside...and you're going to say he's at fault? Give me a break dude

I'd love to see a stat of how often a QB is sacked when the OL lets a DE go unblocked on the QBs blindside. I guarantee that any NFL QB gets sacked on this exact play. Wilson, Mahomes, I dont care who, they are getting sacked AND/OR stripped on this play 10 times out of 10.

And another thing that kills me....

After Cousins wins a big primetime game (something he supposedly cant do), after Cousins beats a winning team (something he supposedly cant do), after Cousins plays very well and doesnt turn the ball over (something he is often criticized for), after we have a record now of 7-3 (Cousins always criticized for his records)......THIS is what it has come to. Dissecting the ONE sack he took all game when he had a free rusher coming at his blindside. Blows. My. Mind.

You know, I've learned that some fans (mostly the Cousins haters) will ALWAYS find a way to complain about something Cousins did. Win, loss or draw, it's just in their nature at this point. And it just further proves my point that this guy never got a fair shot from the start with many fans, media, etc. Instead of enjoying the win, getting excited about the team and how Kirk is playing, it's like some fans HAVE to find something he did wrong otherwise they wont be satisfied with themselves. They go on a mission to HUNT for something he did wrong. Again, I've never seen fans come at a QB like they do Cousins. Never in my life. And the sad thing is, he didnt even do anything wrong here!! This could have EASILY been a strip sack, Reiff failed to execute and Cousins protected the ball. Imagine what guys would be saying if he fumbled there. Instead he protects it but guys still want to claim he got "skittish and hesitated" and that's why he got sacked. Just unbelievable. You guys must think that we have the greatest OL to ever step on a football field given how much you complain about Cousins holding the ball too long and taking sacks.

The negotiator wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:12 pm

Dames wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:56 pm
No problem. I'm a big fan of Nick's stuff.

There’s another current statistical chart
on RB by Nick which just came out.

CharVike wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:14 pm If I'm reading this right Prescott is the 2nd best QB in the NFL. Never would have thought that.

fiestavike wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:16 am
The vikings often don't block the DE. Its kind of a staple of this offense. Typically that is on running plays and bootlegs to the unblocked side, but blocking down on quick routes can confuse a defense with keys (the way PHI did against us in the NFCG) and keep hands down along the interior of the line.

Reiff could have done a better job selling it and given Kirk another beat, but the time was there if he's releasing it at the WR breaks.

If he is just pulling his arm back in the image you are showing he's very late. And in fact, he was late on that play, which is why he couldn't throw it at the moment you screen captured, and why he was sacked.

CharVike wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:14 pm

The negotiator wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:54 pm

Thanks Dames

If I'm reading this right Prescott is the 2nd best QB in the NFL. Never would have thought that.

CharVike wrote:Dak can't get it done. He's not good enough.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:29 pm

CharVike wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:14 pm
If I'm reading this right Prescott is the 2nd best QB in the NFL. Never would have thought that.

I thought you said he was garbage.

No, wait ... it was ...

CharVike wrote:Dak can't get it done. He's not good enough.

Look, I'm not a Dak fan. But I can recognize good play, even if you can't.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:33 am

fiestavike wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:16 am
The vikings often don't block the DE. Its kind of a staple of this offense. Typically that is on running plays and bootlegs to the unblocked side, but blocking down on quick routes can confuse a defense with keys (the way PHI did against us in the NFCG) and keep hands down along the interior of the line.

Huh? I hope you didnt just make this up because I've gone through the last 4 games and literally cant find a single pass play where we dont block the DE at all and just let him rush free other than that one (or screens). I'm not sure where you're getting this idea from but I sure havent seen it. Quick pass or not, you dont just let a guy run free on your blindside because if it's not there, your QB is going to get killed. That's just a poorly designed play if that was the case but either way, I can guarantee it wasnt. Reiff missed his assignment.

Reiff could have done a better job selling it and given Kirk another beat, but the time was there if he's releasing it at the WR breaks.

Again, go watch the play. No there wasnt time. The screenshot I posted, the WRs STILL werent out of their breaks and that was at the point where Kirk could no longer throw without getting stripped sacked. So if the WRs STILL werent out of their breaks at the time of that shot, how could he have thrown the ball any earlier and complete it?? He couldnt. Because that would mean they are even further away from being out of their breaks. And if he throws it THAT early, there is a good chance that results in an INT. It's not like these were deep routes where the ball takes time to travel so you can throw with anticipation. This is the type of pass that's fired at the WR the second he comes out of his break. The screen shot proves that he couldnt have thrown it the second they came out of their breaks because Quinn was already there.

If he is just pulling his arm back in the image you are showing he's very late. And in fact, he was late on that play, which is why he couldn't throw it at the moment you screen captured, and why he was sacked.

.....again like I said above, the WRs arent out of their breaks in this shot so how could he throw with anticipation any earlier? He couldnt without it being a turnover.

I dont understand how you dont see that and why you're even trying to argue this. I've never in my life heard of a pass play designed to allow a blindside DE have a free rush at a QB outside of some sort of screen. No chip, no block, no nothing. Just here ya go, go kill our QB. Clearly Kirk had no idea Reiff wasnt going to block him. Reiff went and doubled a guy that had little to do with the play. And whether Kirk miraculously got that out or if he didnt, he was going to get crushed regardless. Why would you design a play like that? Better yet, how often do you see a blindside DE get a free rush on a pass play across the league? Hardly ever. You trying to now convince me that this was how the play is designed isnt going to work. Reiff not blocking him was NOT the play design I can just about guarantee that. Nobody in the right mind willingly gives a DE a free shot at their QB, from his blindside no less

Fiesta, I get what you're trying to say but using the Robert Quinn sack Sunday night is a poor example

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:32 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:29 pm
I thought you said he was garbage.

No, wait ... it was ...



Look, I'm not a Dak fan. But I can recognize good play, even if you can't.

I think he was saying Dak being 2nd made the chart less valid.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:29 pm

CharVike wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:14 pm
If I'm reading this right Prescott is the 2nd best QB in the NFL. Never would have thought that.

I thought you said he was garbage.

No, wait ... it was ...

CharVike wrote:Dak can't get it done. He's not good enough.

Look, I'm not a Dak fan. But I can recognize good play, even if you can't.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:32 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:29 pm
I thought you said he was garbage.

No, wait ... it was ...



Look, I'm not a Dak fan. But I can recognize good play, even if you can't.

I think he was saying Dak being 2nd made the chart less valid.

CharVike wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:09 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:29 pm
I thought you said he was garbage.

No, wait ... it was ...



Look, I'm not a Dak fan. But I can recognize good play, even if you can't.

Losing a home favorite game is good play to you. I don't call that a good game. I could see if he was an underdog. Plus we sold out to stop the run. IMO Zim felt it was more important to shut Zeke down. Don't you wonder why that was the case? He was more afraid of the RB than the QB. That says nothing at all to you. Dak lost to the Saints, Packers and US. That's the three best teams he played against. That's not good play in my book. But the media and some fans think it's the all time greatest. It was 3 Ls. That sucks.