The State of the Vikings

[Mothman]

Another indication of the state of the Vikings:

I heard new Bears GM Ryan Pace talking about the NFC North and he talked about it being a tough division. He made a comment about "those teams building through the draft" and emphasized that he respects what Ted Thompson has done in Green Bay, that he respects what Detroit has done.

There was no mention of the Vikings.

I don't think there was anything more to that slight than the fact that GB and Detroit were playoff teams this year and the Vikes, like the Bears, were also-rans. It's just another indication of the state of this Vikings team. There was a time, a long time, when talk of the NFC Central or NFC North would involve the Vikings because they were almost always one of the two best teams in the division. Now they're an afterthought.... at best.

I was wrong when I posted in the "Rand: Are the Vikings better off than they were a year ago?" thread that I'm not upset about the Vikings. I am upset. I'm tired of mediocrity. I want this team to be relevant again.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Another indication of the state of the Vikings:

I heard new Bears GM Ryan Pace talking about the NFC North and he talked about it being a tough division. He made a comment about "those teams building through the draft" and emphasized that he respects what Ted Thompson has done in Green Bay, that he respects what Detroit has done.

There was no mention of the Vikings.

I don't think there was anything more to that slight than the fact that GB and Detroit were playoff teams this year and the Vikes, like the Bears, were also-rans. It's just another indication of the state of this Vikings team. There was a time, a long time, when talk of the NFC Central or NFC North would involve the Vikings because they were almost always one of the two best teams in the division. Now they're an afterthought.... at best.

I was wrong when I posted in the "Rand: Are the Vikings better off than they were a year ago?" thread that I'm not upset about the Vikings. I am upset. I'm tired of mediocrity. I want this team to be relevant again.

Patience Jim patience. I know it's tough to have at times with this team. However, with the coaching staff and pieces we have in place for the future, the arrow is definitely pointing up. Finishing 7-9 with a rookie HC, rookie QB, and a plethora of injuries....this team has shown great promise.

[CbusVikesFan]

Another indication of the state of the Vikings:

I heard new Bears GM Ryan Pace talking about the NFC North and he talked about it being a tough division. He made a comment about "those teams building through the draft" and emphasized that he respects what Ted Thompson has done in Green Bay, that he respects what Detroit has done.

There was no mention of the Vikings.

I don't think there was anything more to that slight than the fact that GB and Detroit were playoff teams this year and the Vikes, like the Bears, were also-rans. It's just another indication of the state of this Vikings team. There was a time, a long time, when talk of the NFC Central or NFC North would involve the Vikings because they were almost always one of the two best teams in the division. Now they're an afterthought.... at best.

I was wrong when I posted in the "Rand: Are the Vikings better off than they were a year ago?" thread that I'm not upset about the Vikings. I am upset. I'm tired of mediocrity. I want this team to be relevant again.

Instability at HC has caused this rift in Vikings Lore. When the staff turns over every 3 years, it's hard to keep the team going in the "exact" same direction. Ideas, egos, etc. cause the team to lag behind in all areas.
Until the Vikings quit drafting all over the map, reaching when not needed, choosing project over polish, they will swim in the pool of mediocrity indefinitely. It has been said that you build a team from front to back, from inside to out. Have the Vikings done that consistently over the past decade? Heck no.
Until they do, guess what? You have to have patience if you believe in your system. I am being patient AGAIN, I have more in my older years, but after last years draft, it is at defcon 2. Not yet ready to launch, but shaking my head already.

[Mothman]

Patience Jim patience. I know it's tough to have at times with this team. However, with the coaching staff and pieces we have in place for the future, the arrow is definitely pointing up. Finishing 7-9 with a rookie HC, rookie QB, and a plethora of injuries....this team has shown great promise.

Mike (I like knowing people's names!), I've been preaching patience for years myself so I hear you, loud and clear. However, I'm tired of being patient (even though I realize there's really no alternative). If, like you, I definitely saw the arrow pointing up I might feel differently but I just don't think the team shows any more promise as a whole than it has in many other years in recent memory. Mike Zimmer and Norv Turner have been talking about how the Vikings showed improvement later in the season but frankly, beyond the improvement Bridgewater showed (which was encouraging) I didn't see much improvement. Was the Vikes team we saw in December really any better than the one that clobbered the Falcons in week 4? They were still failing to close out games, still struggling to score points at times, and they barely beat an absolute mess of a Bears team to close out the season.

7-9 is better than 5-10-1 but I didn't think it was a very decisive 7-9, if you know what I mean. They didn't finish strong. What does encourage me a little is that Zimmer has now made a couple of comments about analyzing the roster and deciding which players will be back next year and I hope that means he's going to take a very hard look at that roster. I'm starting to think the Vikes might have too many players that are okay with mediocrity and maybe a bit more of a house-cleaning is in order. Perhaps they need to find some closers.

I don't see any more promise on this team than most of the teams in the league can claim. To me, the Vikes still look mired in mediocrity and they could just as easily slip back to 5 wins in 2015 as move up to 10. I'm praying for a great offseason, a smart, aggressive offseason that shows this team is really doing everything they possibly can to rise above the losing seasons and become a perennial contender again.

[frosted]

Mike (I like knowing people's names!), I've been preaching patience for years myself so I hear you, loud and clear. However, I'm tired of being patient (even though I realize there's really no alternative). If, like you, I definitely saw the arrow pointing up I might feel differently but I just don't think the team shows any more promise as a whole than it has in many other years in recent memory. Mike Zimmer and Norv Turner have been talking about how the Vikings showed improvement later in the season but frankly, beyond the improvement Bridgewater showed (which was encouraging) I didn't see much improvement. Was the Vikes team we saw in December really any better than the one that clobbered the Falcons in week 4? They were still failing to close out games, still struggling to score points at times, and they barely beat an absolute mess of a Bears team to close out the season.

7-9 is better than 5-10-1 but I didn't think it was a very decisive 7-9, if you know what I mean. They didn't finish strong. What does encourage me a little is that Zimmer has now made a couple of comments about analyzing the roster and deciding which players will be back next year and I hope that means he's going to take a very hard look at that roster. I'm starting to think the Vikes might have too many players that are okay with mediocrity and maybe a bit more of a house-cleaning is in order. Perhaps they need to find some closers.

I don't see any more promise on this team than most of the teams in the league can claim. To me, the Vikes still look mired in mediocrity and they could just as easily slip back to 5 wins in 2015 as move up to 10. I'm praying for a great offseason, a smart, aggressive offseason that shows this team is really doing everything they possibly can to rise above the losing seasons and become a perennial contender again.

Interesting - what makes you say that?

[Mothman]

Instability at HC has caused this rift in Vikings Lore. When the staff turns over every 3 years, it's hard to keep the team going in the "exact" same direction. Ideas, egos, etc. cause the team to lag behind in all areas.
Until the Vikings quit drafting all over the map, reaching when not needed, choosing project over polish, they will swim in the pool of mediocrity indefinitely. It has been said that you build a team from front to back, from inside to out. Have the Vikings done that consistently over the past decade? Heck no.
Until they do, guess what? You have to have patience if you believe in your system. I am being patient AGAIN, I have more in my older years, but after last years draft, it is at defcon 2. Not yet ready to launch, but shaking my head already.

That "defcon 2" line made me laugh.

Good post. You're right that all the turnover at HC isn't helping matters (I think McCombs screwed us Vikes fans even worse than it even seemed at the time too) and I especially like the part of your post I marked in bold. The Vikes need to draft smarter, build smarter. They have to stop repeating mistakes and stop settling so much. For example, they signed Jerome Simpson to 3 different one year contracts! Charlie Johnson has been starting at guard for 3 seasons and starting on the line for 4! Then there's the way they've handled the QB position...

I apologize to everyone for being a grouch ("get off my lawn, fellow Vikes fans!") but as I was watching the Ravens and Patriots, two of the most successful NFL teams of the 21st century, in an epic battle yesterday it just drove home how little the Vikings have accomplished in the same time span and how far away that elusive Super Bowl victory seems right now when I look at the current state of the team. The Ravens and Patriots have 5 Super Bowl wins and many more conference championship appearances since 2000. The Vikes have 2 playoff wins in that span (one after an 8-8 season) and as much as it pains me to say it, without Brett Favre, that number would probably be one.

[The Breeze]

Mike (I like knowing people's names!), I've been preaching patience for years myself so I hear you, loud and clear. However, I'm tired of being patient (even though I realize there's really no alternative). If, like you, I definitely saw the arrow pointing up I might feel differently but I just don't think the team shows any more promise as a whole than it has in many other years in recent memory. Mike Zimmer and Norv Turner have been talking about how the Vikings showed improvement later in the season but frankly, beyond the improvement Bridgewater showed (which was encouraging) I didn't see much improvement. Was the Vikes team we saw in December really any better than the one that clobbered the Falcons in week 4? They were still failing to close out games, still struggling to score points at times, and they barely beat an absolute mess of a Bears team to close out the season.

7-9 is better than 5-10-1 but I didn't think it was a very decisive 7-9, if you know what I mean. They didn't finish strong. What does encourage me a little is that Zimmer has now made a couple of comments about analyzing the roster and deciding which players will be back next year and I hope that means he's going to take a very hard look at that roster. I'm starting to think the Vikes might have too many players that are okay with mediocrity and maybe a bit more of a house-cleaning is in order. Perhaps they need to find some closers.

I don't see any more promise on this team than most of the teams in the league can claim. To me, the Vikes still look mired in mediocrity and they could just as easily slip back to 5 wins in 2015 as move up to 10. I'm praying for a great offseason, a smart, aggressive offseason that shows this team is really doing everything they possibly can to rise above the losing seasons and become a perennial contender again.

I think the team lacks depth...seriously lacks it.

They have some great starters on both sides of the ball but beyond that...meh.

Fixing that situation is going to take some smart, maybe more conservative, moves, less focus on project prospects and/or not so many swings at guys with freak abilities with no clear cut position or role. Those kinds of moves are better once you have some established depth, my opinion any way. They also need to be firm about admitting mistakes by moving on from guys who don't work out. That will be another something to take note of this off season. Who gets cut.

They need to make more hay in the middle rounds of the draft finding more polished guys who fit what they're doing and add to the overall depth. That will take some time...which means ownership has got to commit to what they have in Zimmer/Turner/Spielman beyond some 3 year window of playoff expectation.

It most certainly helps having a faith in the QB and the systems in place on either side of the ball as it makes it so much easier to plug players in. I'm always impressed with the way some teams can add a couple of cast offs from other squads at skill positions and have them take off as a result.
Forsett for the Ravens and practically every RB and WR for New England in the Belichek era. Many Dbs and LBs too.

It's the ownership that needs to be patient at this point IMO. They've got to let this staff build a team and Spielman has to find some solid lineman and depth on defense. I keep hearing that this staff is on a 3 year contract...like Fraizer was. Regardless of how one might see the teams current arrow pointing, I think a 3 year plan is a bad one.

I think it was dumb of Chicago to fire Lovie and I'm dubious of what the Jets did. I think Marvin Lewis is a good example of how sticking with the system/HC through the rough times can pay off...Cincy lacks play makers on offense though and it hurts them.

I believe Vikes fans have every reason to be skeptical...but I also believe this current staff has the most potential since Green and Billick.

[CbusVikesFan]

Jim,
this is exactly what I have been harping on as well and you deserve to be upset at the current state. It is the lollygagging of the team as a whole that irks me and over and over I get proved right yearly that the Vikings cannot draft from you know what.
I see player after needed player go by and we draft an unknown or a popular pick. This could be Rick's last year for me, the leash has tightened a bit.
steve

[Mothman]

Interesting - what makes you say that?

It's really just a gut feeling combined with the team's inability to finish games and Zimmer's obvious frustration with that. It's a problem that carried over from one coaching staff to the next which suggests to me that it's a player problem, although I realize that's a simple way to look at it. Part of it for me is the way the Vikes closed out the season. They blew 14 point leads against Detroit and Miami, allowing 23 4th quarter points (as a team) against the latter. After that loss, I thought they would come out fired up and handle that mess of a Bears team more decisively than they did. Zimmer was fuming after the loss to Miami and I said during the week before that Bears game that the Vikes performance would tell us something about how they respond to coaching, because I had no doubt they would get a serious dose of it during the week. I didn't think they responded terribly well. There were definitely some players trying hard but overall, considering the state and self-destructive nature of their opponent, that was about as disappointing as a win can get for me. When I combine that feeling with Zimmer's comments about trying to figure out what players they want to bring back, it leads me to think he may pull a Dennis Green "new sheriff in town" move, make some unexpected cuts and try to change the locker room a bit. Perhaps that's just wishful thinking because I realize coaches have to make those decisions about their rosters at this time every year but I'm hoping Zimmer is be looking to change/improve the culture of his locker room.

[Mothman]

I think the team lacks depth...seriously lacks it.

They have some great starters on both sides of the ball but beyond that...meh.

Fixing that situation is going to take some smart, maybe more conservative, moves, less focus on project prospects and/or not so many swings at guys with freak abilities with no clear cut position or role. Those kinds of moves are better once you have some established depth, my opinion any way. They also need to be firm about admitting mistakes by moving on from guys who don't work out. That will be another something to take note of this off season. Who gets cut.

They need to make more hay in the middle rounds of the draft finding more polished guys who fit what they're doing and add to the overall depth. That will take some time...which means ownership has got to commit to what they have in Zimmer/Turner/Spielman beyond some 3 year window of playoff expectation.

It most certainly helps having a faith in the QB and the systems in place on either side of the ball as it makes it so much easier to plug players in. I'm always impressed with the way some teams can add a couple of cast offs from other squads at skill positions and have them take off as a result.
Forsett for the Ravens and practically every RB and WR for New England in the Belichek era. Many Dbs and LBs too.

It's the ownership that needs to be patient at this point IMO. They've got to let this staff build a team and Spielman has to find some solid lineman and depth on defense. I keep hearing that this staff is on a 3 year contract...like Fraizer was. Regardless of how one might see the teams current arrow pointing, I think a 3 year plan is a bad one.

I think it was dumb of Chicago to fire Lovie and I'm dubious of what the Jets did. I think Marvin Lewis is a good example of how sticking with the system/HC through the rough times can pay off...Cincy lacks play makers on offense though and it hurts them.

I believe Vikes fans have every reason to be skeptical...but I also believe this current staff has the most potential since Green and Billick.

Excellent post. I agree with pretty much all of it, especially the need to make more than a 3 year commitment to the coaching staff. That's not enough.

[frosted]

It's really just a gut feeling combined with the team's inability to finish games and Zimmer's obvious frustration with that. It's a problem that carried over from one coaching staff to the next which suggests to me that it's a player problem, although I realize that's a simple way to look at it. Part of it for me is the way the Vikes closed out the season. They blew 14 point leads against Detroit and Miami, allowing 23 4th quarter points (as a team) against the latter. After that loss, I thought they would come out fired up and handle that mess of a Bears team more decisively than they did. Zimmer was fuming after the loss to Miami and I said during the week before that Bears game that the Vikes performance would tell us something about how they respond to coaching, because I had no doubt they would get a serious dose of it during the week. I didn't think they responded terribly well. There were definitely some players trying hard but overall, considering the state and self-destructive nature of their opponent, that was about as disappointing as a win can get for me. When I combine that feeling with Zimmer's comments about trying to figure out what players they want to bring back, it leads me to think he may pull a Dennis Green "new sheriff in town" move, make some unexpected cuts and try to change the locker room a bit. Perhaps that's just wishful thinking because I realize coaches have to make those decisions about their rosters at this time every year but I'm hoping Zimmer is be looking to change/improve the culture of his locker room.

Fair enough - I don't know if they have players who are OK with being mediocre or if some of those players you're referring to are just incapable, from a talent standpoint, of being more than mediocre (now or ever).

I'm curious, are there players in particular you feel are OK with being mediocre football players?

[Mothman]

Fair enough - I don't know if they have players who are OK with being mediocre or if some of those players you're referring to are just incapable, from a talent standpoint, of being more than mediocre (now or ever).

I'm curious, are there players in particular you feel are OK with being mediocre football players?

No, it's more of a suspicion than an accusation and it could very well be a talent issue, not an effort or attitude issue.

[frosted]

No, it's more of a suspicion than an accusation and it could very well be a talent issue, not an effort or attitude issue.

Understood

[Mothman]

Understood

Basically, I'm just hoping whatever it is, Zimmer can identify it and do something about it.

[frosted]

Basically, I'm just hoping whatever it is, Zimmer can identify it and do something about it.

No doubt - I think he'll need a major assist from Rick as well.