The Minnesota Vikings are OFFICIALLY Scary!!

[chicagopurple]

hate to say it but after 40 yr of being a die-hard Vike Fan..this is definitely NOT our year. Our QB is very questionable, our WR corps is definitely unproven. We are, at this point, a one dimensional offense until proven otherwise. There are many holes on defense especially in the secondary. Go ahead and drink the Kool-Ade if you wish, but dont place any big bets in Vegas quite yet. I have been through way too many Viking Rebuilds to buy into this years version, this early.

[Purple bruise]

hate to say it but after 40 yr of being a die-hard Vike Fan..this is definitely NOT our year. Our QB is very questionable, our WR corps is definitely unproven. We are, at this point, a one dimensional offense until proven otherwise. There are many holes on defense especially in the secondary. Go ahead and drink the Kool-Ade if you wish, but dont place any big bets in Vegas quite yet. I have been through way too many Viking Rebuilds to buy into this years version, this early.

Okay then . This is not the same teams that you are comparing them to in the past. This is a team that had seven more wins than the previous year and made the play-offs. This team has AD in his prime, 7 pro bowl players that added quality and depth in this years draft. Another year of experience for Ponder with another full camp and much improved wide receivers.
I am all in and chugged the kool-aid clear down. I have already made plans to make a whole lot of wagers. Vegas has the Vikes picked to win only 5 games this year (that seems laughable). I am not saying that they are going to the SB... but they will, in my opinion, easily win at least as many games as last year and again be in the play-offs.

[PacificNorseWest]

hate to say it but after 40 yr of being a die-hard Vike Fan..this is definitely NOT our year. Our QB is very questionable, our WR corps is definitely unproven. We are, at this point, a one dimensional offense until proven otherwise. There are many holes on defense especially in the secondary. Go ahead and drink the Kool-Ade if you wish, but dont place any big bets in Vegas quite yet. I have been through way too many Viking Rebuilds to buy into this years version, this early.

I done drank the kool-aid my man. Tastes goooood.

Vikings aren't rebuilding though.

[Uptown Murf]

Ya know...I had this whole meticulous response ready to go, but I'm gonna decide to not pull the trigger because this is getting annoying. I'm sure everyone else would agree.

Just one thing....The puffing the chest out of saying you played ball...C'mon dude. I'm not new to the ins and outs of the game, if you know what I mean.

Enjoyed the article. Keep posting them if you can. I'd love to do this again.

I got you bro..Won't have anymore Vikings material for a minute, but I'll scoop you guys to some other things I'm doing no doubt...lol good competitive banter though..

[Uptown Murf]

Ahhh yes, 'twas a good read ... fluid, smooth, and about the Vikings haha. Nice work Murf.

On the surface Ponder and Ryan had similar sophomore seasons, but I think everyone over looked the fact that Ryan missed 2 games in '09 and only had 3 pass attempts in a 3rd game. In other words Ryan put up the same numbers as Ponder but in 3 fewer games. Also if you look at Ryan's game by game stats, he was a hell of a lot more consistent. Plus there are no sub 100's on Ryan's 78 game resume (minus injury shortened games).

Then you throw in the AD factor, all those stacked boxes and single coverage should have been a QB's wet dream, but Ponder struggled to take advantage. I get that our offense isn't designed to go vertical all that often, but don't fool yourself into thinking that it doesn't have a lot to do with who's throwing the ball.

Whether your offense is designed to go deep or not, an NFL caliber QB should't be as abysmal at going down field as Ponder was in 2012 (see chart below).
I got you covered. Although this is more like all pass attempts 15+ yards down field.

2012 deep passing statistics (minimum 40 attempts).


However Matt Ryan was equally bad at going deep in '09 as Ponder was in '12, so all hope is not lost for the Ponder camp I guess. Or perhaps it's just not wise to have Michael Jenkins on your roster if you want to be a successful deep team haha. And yeah I know, ironically both Ryan and Ponder hit Jenkins deep on their first NFL passes (well Ponder's first home pass).

Matt Ryan's '09 deep passing statistics:
82 att, 27 comp, (32.9%), 673 yards, (8.21 avg), 4 TD, 8 INT, 40.4 rating

There were no significant changes to the Falcons receiver squad from 2009 to 2010. White, Jenkins, and Gonzalez were Ryan's main targets in '09 and '10. Julio Jones didn't come along until Ryans 4th season in 2011. The Vikings on the other hand have made improvements in the receiver department, so it's all on Ponder now.

The Vikings should be scary in 2013, but there's still a huge question mark at the most important position on the team. However if we're destined to mirror the Falcons, I just hope we end up with better playoff fortune than they have in recent years lol.

lol good post. Yeah Ryan had that ankle injury - but tough luck. His numbers are his numbers imo. Ponder's lack of weapons should substitute for Ryan's gimpy ankle...lol As for the downfield #'s - I guarantee Ryan's look really good these days with the better threats catching the ball. Ponder can get the ball anywhere he needs it, you just can't have Jenkins and Simpson being your primary options imo. As the weapons grow so will his overall acumen at the position..And don't forget along with those weapons - Michael Turner was perhaps a top 2 running threat at the time. He came in and broke all of the Falcons records pretty quickly...We'll see though. Hopefully for y'all's sake..I don't think Ponder needs to be all-world for this train to make it to the station..

[Reignman]

I'll disagree with this point. The jury is certainly out on whether or not the Vikings have improved in the receiver department. I'll give Jennings probably a bit more credit than he might deserve and call Percy for Jennings a neutral exchange. We've all discussed that Jennings is great at things Harvin is not (and vice-versa). So instead of getting into that debate here, we'll call that a scratch. The real "X" factor is Patterson, and while he certainly has potential, there are aspects of his game that are severely lacking (route-running being one of the major points). There's certainly potential that his inexperience could be a liability, and rookie receivers --as a general rule -- hardly put up impressive statistics.

All valid points with the receiving corps. I considered it an improvement because Harvin missed the 2nd half of the season and it didn't seem to affect our passing game all that much. Plus as odd as it sounds, I think Ponders development benefited from losing Harvin. He lost the security blanket he relied on too much early in the season and it forced him to look at more reads. Plus Wright filled in admirably. So if you take Harvin out of the equation and add a Jennings it's an overall improvement. But fair enough, we'll call it a scratch for now, but it's still all on Ponder. If he doesn't turn that corner this year, I don't see how they can justify bringing him back for a 4th season, except as a backup. Depending on which Ponder shows up we could be looking at anywhere from a 7-9 to a 12-4 season.

hate to say it but after 40 yr of being a die-hard Vike Fan..this is definitely NOT our year. Our QB is very questionable, our WR corps is definitely unproven. We are, at this point, a one dimensional offense until proven otherwise. There are many holes on defense especially in the secondary. Go ahead and drink the Kool-Ade if you wish, but dont place any big bets in Vegas quite yet. I have been through way too many Viking Rebuilds to buy into this years version, this early.

Ahhh come on, it's way too early for that kind of verdict my friend. Yeah maybe hold your bets, but you can't give up before they've even taken a snap lol.

[Mothman]

All valid points with the receiving corps. I considered it an improvement because Harvin missed the 2nd half of the season and it didn't seem to affect our passing game all that much. Plus as odd as it sounds, I think Ponders development benefited from losing Harvin. He lost the security blanket he relied on too much early in the season and it forced him to look at more reads. Plus Wright filled in admirably. So if you take Harvin out of the equation and add a Jennings it's an overall improvement. But fair enough, we'll call it a scratch for now, but it's still all on Ponder. If he doesn't turn that corner this year, I don't see how they can justify bringing him back for a 4th season, except as a backup. Depending on which Ponder shows up we could be looking at anywhere from a 7-9 to a 12-4 season.

...and depending on how the secondary performs, how the rest of the defense plays, if Jennings can stay healthy this season, how Patterson performs, how the OL handles blitzes, etc.

It's never "all on Ponder" or any other QB. I agree that he has to play his part successfully and show this season that he deserves to be more than just a backup in 2014 but the W/L record is and will always be about team performance, not just QB performance.

[dead_poet]

All valid points with the receiving corps. I considered it an improvement because Harvin missed the 2nd half of the season and it didn't seem to affect our passing game all that much. Plus as odd as it sounds, I think Ponders development benefited from losing Harvin. He lost the security blanket he relied on too much early in the season and it forced him to look at more reads. Plus Wright filled in admirably. So if you take Harvin out of the equation and add a Jennings it's an overall improvement.

We still disagree about that. While Jennings is good, Harvin is one of the most dangerous receivers in the game. He's more explosive than Jennings and it's not close. Even though their skillsets differ, in my mind Harvin is > Jennings at the receiver position at this stage in their respective careers.

I also think it's hard for a QB to benefit from losing a top-15 receiver and one of the best offensive playmakers in the league. YMMV I guess.

I also wish people would stop referring to Harvin as Ponder's "security blanket" on short/intermediate plays that were designed to go to Harvin. I really want to see a stat of NFL qbs and their "checkdown" percentages because from what I saw last year Ponder RARELY checked down. Instead he threw to his primary read on designed short passes to take advantage of Harvin's special abilities.

But fair enough, we'll call it a scratch for now, but it's still all on Ponder.

What if all of our starting offensive linemen are out for the season due to injury and Ponder nosedives? Or Jennings and Rudolph get injured and we're starting a raw rookie, Jerome Simpson and Carlson? Would you cut him some slack for a drop in performance or would you continue to say, "Nope. It's still on Ponder."?

I think Jim summed it up nicely. It's about team performance. Ponder is a core component, but he's only one part of the unit.

[Purple bruise]

We still disagree about that. While Jennings is good, Harvin is one of the most dangerous receivers in the game. He's more explosive than Jennings and it's not close. Even though their skillsets differ, in my mind Harvin is > Jennings at the receiver position at this stage in their respective careers.

I also think it's hard for a QB to benefit from losing a top-15 receiver and one of the best offensive playmakers in the league. YMMV I guess.

I also wish people would stop referring to Harvin as Ponder's "security blanket" on short/intermediate plays that were designed to go to Harvin. I really want to see a stat of NFL qbs and their "checkdown" percentages because from what I saw last year Ponder RARELY checked down. Instead he threw to his primary read on designed short passes to take advantage of Harvin's special abilities.
What if all of our starting offensive linemen are out for the season due to injury and Ponder nosedives? Or Jennings and Rudolph get injured and we're starting a raw rookie, Jerome Simpson and Carlson? Would you cut him some slack for a drop in performance or would you continue to say, "Nope. It's still on Ponder."?

I think Jim summed it up nicely. It's about team performance. Ponder is a core component, but he's only one part of the unit.

How refreshing to see that some of us get it.

[Mothman]

We still disagree about that. While Jennings is good, Harvin is one of the most dangerous receivers in the game. He's more explosive than Jennings and it's not close. Even though their skillsets differ, in my mind Harvin is > Jennings at the receiver position at this stage in their respective careers.

It will be interesting to see how that plays out. I understand where you're coming from but I suspect you would agree that more explosive doesn't necessarily mean better. I think Harvin clearly has more explosive open field running ability but Jennings has usually averaged quite a bit more yardage per reception over a season than Harvin and he's been a more prolific scorer too. In terms of bigger gains and scoring production, Jennings may actually have an edge.

I also think it's hard for a QB to benefit from losing a top-15 receiver and one of the best offensive playmakers in the league. YMMV I guess.

I see how it could be beneficial. Harvin's never actually finished a season in the top 15 at receiver in terms of yardage or scoring, only in number of catches (2011). Jennings was in the top 15 in all 3 categories in his last healthy season (2010). To me, it really comes down to both players actually staying healthy and staying on the field. If they do, history is on Jennings side as the more productive WR. Of course, he undoubtedly benefitted from the system he was in and the QB he played with in GB plus he's getting older and Harvin's still pretty young (in football terms) so history may not mean squat in this case...

In the end, we'll just have to see how it plays out. I don't think just replacing Harvin with Jennings means the WR corps has automatically improved. If Jennings stays healthy he should be capable of matching or exceeding Harvin's production so to me, the real measure of improvement in the WR corps will come from the other players.

I also wish people would stop referring to Harvin as Ponder's "security blanket" on short/intermediate plays that were designed to go to Harvin. I really want to see a stat of NFL qbs and their "checkdown" percentages because from what I saw last year Ponder RARELY checked down. Instead he threw to his primary read on designed short passes to take advantage of Harvin's special abilities.

I couldn't agree more and I'm tired of referring to Harvin as Ponder's "security blanket" too. It's just not accurate.

[dead_poet]

I understand where you're coming from but I suspect you would agree that more explosive doesn't necessarily mean better.

Not necessarily, no.

I think Harvin clearly has more explosive open field running ability but Jennings has usually averaged quite a bit more yardage per reception over a season than Harvin and he's been a more prolific scorer too. In terms of bigger gains and scoring production, Jennings may actually have an edge.

It's hard to compare the two on production when they were in two entirely different systems. Heck, Harvin wasn't even on the field (I'm talking by design, not injury) for a large percentage of 2010 and 2011. While Harvin bests Jennings in YAC, my main point is that Harvin is still ascending (the same can't be said for Jennings) and I'll be shocked if he doesn't eclipse Jennings' best seasons (pending injuries) (though he will have similar challenges doing so in Seattle with their run-first offense). He was well on his way (from a reception/yardage standpoint) last season with an inferior QB.

I see how it could be beneficial. Harvin's never actually finished a season in the top 15 at receiver in terms of yardage or scoring, only in number of catches (2011). Jennings was in the top 15 in all 3 categories in his last healthy season (2010).

Without the injury, Harvin would've been there (in yardage and receptions) last season.

To me, it really comes down to both players actually staying healthy and staying on the field. If they do, history is on Jennings side as the more productive WR. Of course, he undoubtedly benefitted from the system he was in and the QB he played with in GB plus he's getting older and Harvin's still pretty young (in football terms) so history may not mean squat in this case...

Right. And that's my point.

If Jennings stays healthy he should be capable of matching or exceeding Harvin's production so to me, the real measure of improvement in the WR corps will come from the other players.

A good point. I hope you're right on Jennings.

Bonus Jennings video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyLHvJ0h4l4

[Mothman]

It's hard to compare the two on production when they were in two entirely different systems. Heck, Harvin wasn't even on the field (I'm talking by design, not injury) for a large percentage of 2010 and 2011. While Harvin bests Jennings in YAC, my main point is that Harvin is still ascending (the same can't be said for Jennings) and I'll be shocked if he doesn't eclipse Jennings' best seasons (pending injuries) (though he will have similar challenges doing so in Seattle with their run-first offense). He was well on his way (from a reception/yardage standpoint) last season with an inferior QB.

Interesting! I'll actually be surprised if Harvin ever eclipses Jennings' best seasons. I can definitely see Percy pulling down more than 80 catches (Jennings' high) but I think his game will have to change and develop quite a bit if he's ever going to have an 80+ catch season where he averages 16+ yards per catch, scores 12 TDs and has more than 1200 yards receiving. He's extremely productive when heavily featured in the offense but when he's featured so much, he tends to get banged up. If he's not featured enough, he obviously won't get the touches necessary to have such a big season.

Without the injury, Harvin would've been there (in yardage and receptions) last season.

That's exactly my point. I realize he has the talent to finish a season as a top 15 receiver but he hasn't done it yet outside of the catch category. Hopefully, (for his sake), he can avoid injuries and do it at some point but until he does, I'm honestly not convinced he has what it takes to get top 15 production across the board and stay healthy enough to sustain that for a full season. Who knows if Jennings can still do that either?

A good point. I hope you're right on Jennings.

I hope so too. First and foremost, he has to stay healthy.

Bonus Jennings video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyLHvJ0h4l4

Thanks! The guy can play. I've liked his game since he played college ball in the Mac. I hope he can do all the stuff he did in that video for the Vikes this year.

[mosscarter]

keep one key aspect in mind mothman, jennings had favre and rodgers throwing to him. its not about what jennings can do; its about what ponder can do (or not do) this season.

[Mothman]

keep one key aspect in mind mothman, jennings had favre and rodgers throwing to him. its not about what jennings can do; its about what ponder can do (or not do) this season.

I disagree. It IS about what Jennings can do and it's also about what Ponder can do. It cuts both ways. A QB benefits from his receivers and receivers benefit from their QB. They also impact each other, which means Jennings and Ponder will be better if other receiving targets on the Vikes threaten opposing defenses. That's the beauty of football. It's truly a team sport and every player on the field matters.

[Reignman]

...and depending on how the secondary performs, how the rest of the defense plays, if Jennings can stay healthy this season, how Patterson performs, how the OL handles blitzes, etc.

What if all of our starting offensive linemen are out for the season due to injury and Ponder nosedives? Or Jennings and Rudolph get injured and we're starting a raw rookie, Jerome Simpson and Carlson? Would you cut him some slack for a drop in performance or would you continue to say, "Nope. It's still on Ponder."?

How refreshing to see that some of us get it.

Bahaha you guys are hilarious. When's the next Ponder support group meeting? And what if Saturn doesn't align with Venus during the vernal equinox? Yeah we get it, anything can go wrong to excuse another poor season by Ponder, but do you really want that to happen or do you want to find out once and for all if Ponder has the "it" factor? Besides there's not much slack there for Ponder to have a drop in performance, he was near the bottom in most passing categories last year. I'm tired of bagging on the guy so I want him to shut me up or to see us move on to the next pet project already.

I also wish people would stop referring to Harvin as Ponder's "security blanket" on short/intermediate plays that were designed to go to Harvin.

First you're in denial about Ponder being good and now you're in denial about Harvin being his security blanket? We need to get you into a "denialoholics anonymous" program or something asap lol. But it's not a bad thing, I would say most QB's have a "security blanket" or a go to guy. To deny that is ridiculous.

I really want to see a stat of NFL qbs and their "checkdown" percentages because from what I saw last year Ponder RARELY checked down. Instead he threw to his primary read on designed short passes to take advantage of Harvin's special abilities.

And how would you know that, do you have a copy of the Vikings playbook at home? When your QB is throwing A LOT of short passes, it's a safe bet to assume he's checking down a lot. But for arguments sake, lets say all those short passes were by design ... does it make you feel better knowing we have so many designed short plays when we'd be better off with a QB or playbook that could take advantage of the stacked boxes and all the single coverage that AD gives us?

I mean either the offense is dumbed down because the coaches are trying to compensate for the QB's shortcomings or our coaches are clueless. It's not good either way. Hey guys, I have a great idea, most of the defenders are going to be near the line or cheating up all the time because of AD, so lets throw a lot of short passes by design.