Postgame thoughts

[PurpleJarl]

I love how no one ever connects that fact that our record is due in large part TO Christian Ponder not IN SPITE OF. This would be the first game this year that I would say we won in spit of him. 4-1 isnt a bad ratio. The idea that you can judge a QB or any players growth game by game is laughable. The smallest amount I think you can reasonably look at would be a quarter of a season at a time. And yes, he is struggling and it could be a problem, but his first quarter was very impressive. also, these complaints about arm strength and his average length of passes is silly. He has the arm strength, to think that you all see something that EVERYONE else he has ever worked with football on missed is egotistical and stupid. He may not be the strongest but he certainly is no slouch.

All that is a moot point though because statistically, a QB who has a 50% completion rate with an average pass of 5 yards should never ever fail to get a first down.

That last point is stupid for so many obvious reasons, but no more stupid than everyone clamoring for Ponders exodus. This WAS suppose to be a rebuilding year. We have already gotten almost DOUBLE our wins from last year and this is in large part due to Ponder. Lets save the judgements for the off season.


Finally, everyone needs to remember, this isn't the Vikings of three years ago anymore. This front office seems much smarter and sound of mind and they have so far given us lots of reasons to trust them (kalil, smith, handingly harvin, the resurgent defense, etc). We should trust that they know what they are doing when it comes to ponder.


Slainte

[Cliff]

Now that I've been able to watch the whole game, I have to say that the Vikings pass protection was abysmal. Ponder had a bad game but in terms of pass protection, the blockers were every bit as bad as the QB in this game and no small factor in the almost complete absence of an effective passing game in the second half. They have to be better.

There's a reason Arizona is a top five passing defense. They're also tied with the Vikings for 3rd in sacks with 22. That team knows how to get after a QB.

Some of the problem was blocking ... then there are plays like the one where Ponder held the ball for six seconds and then forces the INT instead of throwing it out of bounds when WRs weren't getting open.

If Arizona can fix some of their problems up front they'll be a very tough team. Heck ... even without that they're a very tough team. They've beat the Eagles, Pats, and Seahawks this year already.

[Mothman]

Where do you draw the line, though? Were those other units so bad it explains away half of Ponder's 4-yard masterpiece?

Yes, they were. Well, I don't if it explains away precisely half but seriously, the pass protection was awful. There were several plays where Ponder didn't even have a chance and there were very few plays in the second half where he had time to actually set, read and throw. A nice 15-20 yard completion to Rudolph for a first down in the second half was called back by a penalty. A "masterpiece" like that doesn't just happen because one player has a bad day. A whole bunch of players contributed to it. Ponder was just at the front of the line.

The 2 INT's came in the first half on plays where Ponder left the pocket and missed wide-open receivers on the run. So who screwed up there? The wide open receiver who supposedly isn't getting open and helping out his QB?

Ponder screwed up (although he wasn't trying to throw to a receiver on the second play). However, both of those plays occurred as a result of pressure so OL breakdowns were part of the equation. Ponder bears the lion's share of the blame for them but those were just two plays out of many more.

Someone else made the point that Ponder "imagines" pressure, and I agree. It's getting almost comical watching him escape it as well. He rarely steps up inside the bubble when he feels edge pressure, sets and fires with his feet firmly beneath him and his momentum adding to the force of his release. He tucks it and darts outside, and many times is forced to go backwards at that point to escape the end on the side he's running towards. So starts what I think is become Ponder's signature play - the Sideways Backpedal Inaccurate Floater to the Flat (SBIFF from now on).

We've disagreed about this point since the Indy game. There are plays where Ponder flees the pressure too quickly instead of stepping up to make a throw but when I've reviewed the games and looked specifically at plays where he takes off (and I've been doing that after almost every game), I see far more plays where he simply can't step up because of the nature of the pressure. Either the pocket is collapsing or there's nobody to re-direct pressure from the side and he's forced to run in the other direction to escape it.

Ponder is going to get the rest of this season to prove he merits a starting spot, but if I'm Spielman I'm already thinking about heavily scouting QB's for next year's draft. Blame the O-line, blame the receivers, blame the coordinator, that's fine. If Ponder doesn't start showing us that supposedly good mind he has by demonstrating he can now adjust and fix what is wrong the Vikings will most certainly be looking for another QB next year.

I blame everybody responsible, Ponder first and foremost. However, it's time for Vikings fans to realize that this is what you get when developing a young QB... any young QB. They make mistakes, force throws, throw interceptions, etc. It comes with the territory. I'm sure someone will point to RGIII but trust me, he'll go through periods in his first few seasons where he struggles and it's not like he's been mistake-free so far.

As for Spielman and scouting QBs... I hope he's doing that already. He should be doing that every year and there's no way the Vikings should just be assuming Ponder is their long-term answer.

[PurpleKoolaid]

Nice try but no cigar. No disrespect to your brother but why is it that the guys from Access Vikings (who have been at every game) aren't impressed with the receivers? These receivers don't get open often enough, don't help their QB when he's in trouble, and they're not the best group of route runners either. That takes no heat off of Ponder but there's little doubt that this roster of WRs (aside from Harvin, who is a stud) shoulders some responsibility for the pitiful passing game. The same goes for the OL's inability to pass block, which was glaringly obvious against Arizona.

WTF dude. I'd like to tell ya what i really think of your post but your not worth getting banned over.

He didnt say they were always opened, he said there were open alot of times. He noticed both Kyle (for instance he was wide open on one of Ponders INTS) and PH in particular, but wasnt sure about who was who with Jenkins, Burton, and Simpson, which means Simpson prolly isnt 100% yet. Ponder has no pocket prescence, and when the receivers are open hes off running. He needs to take a step away from pressure, like other QBs do. But he doesnt have that timer in his head yet. Its not all on Ponder. But alot of it is.

[losperros]

WTF dude. I'd like to tell ya what i really think of your post but your not worth getting banned over.

Honestly, my response to you wasn't meant to be offensive but if that's how you want to take it, then that's your choice. It's a weird choice since there was no personal attack directed towards you. But as I said, it's your choice to make.

He didnt say they were always opened, he said there were open alot of times. He noticed both Kyle (for instance he was wide open on one of Ponders INTS) and PH in particular, but wasnt sure about who was who with Jenkins, Burton, and Simpson, which means Simpson prolly isnt 100% yet. Ponder has no pocket prescence, and when the receivers are open hes off running. He needs to take a step away from pressure, like other QBs do. But he doesnt have that timer in his head yet. Its not all on Ponder. But alot of it is.

I'm not insulting your brother, as you already know, and I agree that Ponder is playing lousy football lately. I don't know if he'll keep doing that but I do know all the other facets of the passing attack need to improve too.

The entire passing game needs an infusion of adrenalin. If the Vikings focus on fixing just one problem (Ponder) and forget about the other issues (WRs and OL), then they're still going to have a bad passing game. No quarterback should be expected to walk over to a wide receiver and hand him the ball. The WRs have to run precise routes, get open, and make plays. This group doesn't do it enough, aside from Harvin, and it's been obvious for the last two seasons.

[losperros]

I look at it this way. It'a long season. The Vikings are 5-2 even with a poor passing attack. I don't know if it's premature to be thinking playoffs but I would much rather start playing well at the end rather than the beginning of the season. Stay healthy, find ways to win, and hope Ponder and the passing game improve.

I find it pretty amazing how this team is finding ways to win. Percy wasn't much of a factor, 1/10 in 3rd down coversions, 5 yds passing in the 2nd half, only 12 first downs total. How did they win yesterday?

I find it amazing too. That's one reason why I'm not convinced that the coaching staff is bad yet. This team is improving and though it has its inadequacies, it finds ways to win. It seems to me that the coaches are squeezing as much out of the offense as they can, what with a QB that isn't playing well (right now, anyway), and has only two good receivers (Harvin and Rudolph) and an OL that can be inconsistent with its pass blocking.

Although I see gaps in the roster, particularly with the passing game, there is no denying that the Vikings have some studs. I feel that Percy Harvin, Adrian Peterson, and Antoine Winfield are playing lights out football this year. I just love watching them in action.

[J. Kapp 11]

On Ponder: I cannot recall all of his picks, but I am positive that the two today as well as the pick 6 against the Redskins were all cases where Ponder made terrible decisions. In both cases yesterday those picks were balls that should never have been thrown. Ponder needs to take the loss of yards/sack, same with the Williams pick against the Redskins.

I agree completely.

However, what scares me is that Ponder, in interviews, says his mistakes are physical, not mental. I fail to see how he can believe that. His last four picks were all based on terrible decisions to try and make plays when they weren't there.

In Ponder's case, he doesn't even have to take sacks. His picks are coming when he's outside the pocket. Just throw it away and try again.

[Juice]

Another thing that I noticed that I'm not sure was mentioned was the field position the Vikings were working with in the game. Yes, some of it was due to a good play made on defense but others were caused by stupid penalties by the Vikings.

1st and 10 at MIN 8- Penalty- Block in the back (MN)
1st and 10 at MIN 12- Scored a TD
1st and 10 at MIN 16- Fumble Recovery (MN)
1st and 10 at MIN 28- Scored a TD
1st and 10 at MIN 3- Penalty- Holding (MN)
1st and 10 at MIN 13
1st and 10 at MIN 19- Turnover On Downs (AZ)
1st and 10 at MIN 30
1st and 10 at MIN 9
1st and 10 at MIN 13
1st and 10 at MIN 46- Turnover On Downs (AZ)
1st and 10 at ARI 38- Onsides Kick (AZ)

[losperros]

I agree completely.

However, what scares me is that Ponder, in interviews, says his mistakes are physical, not mental. I fail to see how he can believe that. His last four picks were all based on terrible decisions to try and make plays when they weren't there.

In Ponder's case, he doesn't even have to take sacks. His picks are coming when he's outside the pocket. Just throw it away and try again.

I'm guessing Ponder's interpretation of the "physical" part might be the bad mechanics he has demonstrated on certain plays recently. The awkward across-the-body throw over Rudolph's head for a pick in the last game is a good example.

Otherwise, I don't know what Ponder is talking about by saying his mistakes are physical. I agree wholeheartedly that they have to do with terrible decisions.

[saint33]

I agree completely.

However, what scares me is that Ponder, in interviews, says his mistakes are physical, not mental. I fail to see how he can believe that. His last four picks were all based on terrible decisions to try and make plays when they weren't there.

In Ponder's case, he doesn't even have to take sacks. His picks are coming when he's outside the pocket. Just throw it away and try again.

I disagree, the pick 6 last week was just a ball getting away from him. Jenkins was open and maybe 5 yards away from him, he simply let the ball slip out of his grip too early and it sailed.

The ball intended for Rudolph sunday (as well as the one against the titans) were examples of poor footwork. Both plays rudy was wide open and were throws that an nfl qb should be able to make especially yesterday's pick, so IMO it'd be a waste to throw those away. Ponder seems to losing his mechanics on the run, not stepping into his throws and they're floating on him. It is odd to see though, because this was one of major strengths last year

As for the pick before the half, id say that was a poor decision, held the ball took long after the play died, should've thrown it away immediately after escaping the pocket, or even just took the sack

[psjordan]

... could I ask everyone to stop whining about Ponder's performance week in and week out? ... Call me soft, call me a bad fan, call me hypocritical,

Hey softie, the hypocritical bad fan section is two over to your right!

Seriously, whether it is "Ponder sucks" or "Musgrave's an idiot", certain themes are going to crop up when our QB passes for 58 yards and two horrid picks in a game. It's just the nature of the beast. There is no stopping it and you can't contain it. Log in and ignore it is my best advice.

[psjordan]

I have no idea.

I think it stems more from the fact that EVERY team has poor protection from time to time - some more than others but every OL breaks down multiple plays per game. The question then becomes "what does your QB do next?" A toss out of bounds when no one is open NEVER gets discussed the next day. A feeble (physically and mentally) INT is banter food, especially when you total out at 58 yards passing.

[Texas Vike]

I think it stems more from the fact that EVERY team has poor protection from time to time - some more than others but every OL breaks down multiple plays per game. The question then becomes "what does your QB do next?" A toss out of bounds when no one is open NEVER gets discussed the next day. A feeble (physically and mentally) INT is banter food, especially when you total out at 58 yards passing.

The most worrisome thing is that Ponder had looked rattled. He looks to have lost his confidence. He started the season solid. Even in the loss to Indy, he looked the part. The last two games he's appeared shaky. Here's to hoping he turns it around Thurs.

[indianation65]

Postgame thoughts? The Vikes are 5/2, and winning. No team in the NFL looks dominant every week, none. As a matter of fact, most all look the same. Therefore, to keep harping on and on about how bad Ponder played this past week does little. He might be awful Thursday, but then again, he could kill. I want consistency as well, but after all, it's the NFL 2012, and with the exceptions of the truly awful, let's say the last 5 teams, the rest all look the same.

...wisdom

[LA Viking]

Musgrave would have been the one calling those plays.

Right, but the clock handling is on Frazier. They got the ball on their 13 with 50 sec to play, and they showed aggression by trying to pass (I respect it since we are generally a conservative team - going WAY back), but I would have just run the clock out. Ponder scrambles - instead of throwing it away, and then they let the clock run down to 19 sec... Fine, just going to run out the clock and go into the half. Nope, pass and then TO. Um... ok. Then Ponder makes a terrible pass across his body when AD was covered, with 5 seconds left with no possibility to score.

Clock management was terrible (Frazier) and play calling was not good (Musgrave). Though, it's the discretion of the HC that makes the decision to try and score vs run out the clock (right?), and I think Frazier screwed up the end of the half. Luckily, they missed the FG, otherwise, it could have changed the game.