GBFavreFan wrote:I know its easy to blow off the preseason, but at least in recent years I think it has been an indicator for how the regular season goes. In 2009, we didn't show much with Favre, but we looked solid, and then blew up into that amazing season. Then the 2010 preseason we showed some definite issues with rhythm and what not, and generally didn't look too good, and that carried right into the regular season. And last year, things didn't look that great with McNabb and rookie Ponder and we went 3-13.
I defnitely depends on the team, but at least for the Vikings I think recent preseasons have definitely given a sign of things to come. And so far Ponder looks like Good-Ponder, but the receivers seemed off. The o-line didn't look that hot, and when the 2nd team came out looked like the worst of the Vikings last year. I would think the receivers could get more in gear, but if Ponder and his receivers continue to play like this in August I don't think they'll magically click starting in September. If I have any real concerns its with the o-line, but perhaps they can get in gear at some point this season, but so far not so good.
And what the F are Mystral Raymond and Jamarca Sanford doing out there as STARTERS????!!! Are they really trying to re-create the "magic" of the 2011 secondary? I don't care if he's still learning, get Harrison the F out there with the first team defense!
We're one game into the preseason so there's plenty of time to adjust the depth chart. I'm sure they'll get Smith into the starting lineup before the regular season. He may be there already since, if I remember correctly, the Vikings were planning to reassess their depth chart on Saturday.
As for the preseason... it's not completely meaningless but it's close to it. Preseason games can reveal basic information about the quality of a team's depth chart but as a reliable indicator of regular season performance, they're pretty useless. The 1985 Bears are one of the best examples: they were 1-3 in the preseason and went on to dominate the regular season and the playoffs.
Eli wrote:No, I think it's become pretty apparent at this point. The idea that Joe Webb is going to have any sort of impact in the NFL is wishful thinking. The Vikings are going to have to address the QB position after this season. Webb isn't a viable backup and Rosenfels will be a 35 year old stop-gap that you hope to never actually see on the field. And then there will be the question of whether Ponder is actually the QB of the future, which may be answered once everyone has seen him play a full season.
I absolutely agree on all points, particularly the one about Joe Webb. I like Webb's athleticism but where the heck does the guy fit in? It's not as a backup QB. It never was.
Anyway, yes, the Vikings have to rethink the QB position after the season. Hopefully, Ponder proves he's the guy and can be the starter. But even then, the Vikings will still need better QB depth behind him.
I just hope Sage isn't a lock on this team just because he fills the "Vet" role. I don't know how great of a mentor he would be anyway, but that's basically the only reason he would make the team. I'd rather that spot go to McLeod Bethel-Thompson, who while admittedly is a long shot, at least has the potential to have an NFL career. Sage is done.
losperros wrote:I absolutely agree on all points, particularly the one about Joe Webb. I like Webb's athleticism but where the heck does the guy fit in? It's not as a backup QB. It never was.
He's the kind of backup QB that can come in and create chaos for a game or two, making plays with his athleticism and perhaps helping the team earn a few wins but he's not the kind of backup you want if the starter has to miss a significant amount of playing time.
Webb might be a great athlete without a NFL position.
Anyway, yes, the Vikings have to rethink the QB position after the season. Hopefully, Ponder proves he's the guy and can be the starter. But even then, the Vikings will still need better QB depth behind him.
Like the rest of the team, it's a position that's going to be in transition for a few years.
I still think the biggest mistake the Vikings have made in a few years, is not going after a good WR, so Ponder at least has a chance to show hes a good QB. jenkins and Simpson are #3 Wr's. In fact all of our Wr's are #3s (cept our slot guy, PH). We are going young and drafting anyways, save the money in other spots and give ponder someone to throw to, that can catch, run routes, go up for it. That would also keep every D we play from putting 8+ in the box. I dont think Ponder's is a good QB, but man, hes got the worst WR 's in the NFL, maybe college. I know that wont solve the fact our DBs and LBs blow, but at least it would be a start.
PurpleKoolaid wrote:I still think the biggest mistake the Vikings have made in a few years, is not going after a good WR, so Ponder at least has a chance to show hes a good QB. jenkns and Simpson are #3 Wr's. In fact all of our Wr's are #3s (cept our slot guy, PH). We are going young and drafting anyways, save the money in other spots and give ponder someone to throw to, that can catch, run routes, go up for it. That would also keep every D we play from putting 8+ in the box. I dont think Ponder's is a good QB, but man, hes got the worst WR 's in the NFL, maybe college. I know that wont solve the fact our DBs and LBs blow, but at least it would be a start.
Harvin is a #1 slot (maybe the best in the league) Simpson is a definite 1-2 talent. Jenkins a three bordeline two. They then spent some picks on Childs and Wright, both highly touted. What free agent wide receivers were available????
I suppose that you would have rather drafted Blackmon than Kalil.
Just out of curiosity are there any players on the Vikes that you like? If so who are they?
Do not mistake KINDNESS for WEAKNESS!
Best to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.
Purple bruise wrote:
Harvin is a #1 slot (maybe the best in the league) Simpson is a definite 1-2 talent. Jenkins a three bordeline two. They then spent some picks on Childs and Wright, both highly touted. What free agent wide receivers were available????
I suppose that you would have rather drafted Blackmon than Kalil.
Just out of curiosity are there any players on the Vikes that you like? If so who are they?
I like all the players. I even like the coaches, doesnt mean I think they are good.
Simpson is a number 2-3 WR at best. Did you watch the game? Yeah preseason and all, he doesnt look good. Plus I was hoping for a flip or 2. The gamble on Childs didnt work. We have 1 WR and hopefully one good TE that can catch, if he can ever get open or get some plays called for him. If you think Jenkins is ANYTHING close to a #2, you and I are miles apart on what real talent is. If we start with Jenkins on one side, Simpson on the other, with our usual Mustgrave TE sets, AD will be lucky to get 50 yards a game, and Ponder will be lucky to survive.
PurpleKoolaid wrote:Simpson is a number 2-3 WR at best. Did you watch the game? Yeah preseason and all, he doesnt look good. Plus I was hoping for a flip or 2. The gamble on Childs didnt work. We have 1 WR and hopefully one good TE that can catch, if he can ever get open or get some plays called for him. If you think Jenkins is ANYTHING close to a #2, you and I are miles apart on what real talent is. If we start with Jenkins on one side, Simpson on the other, with our usual Mustgrave TE sets, AD will be lucky to get 50 yards a game, and Ponder will be lucky to survive.
We may see that set at times but unless Harvin is in the backfield, that will mean he's off the field and he's likely to be around for at least 60% of the snaps, probably more. A WR corps of Harvin, Simpson and Jenkins (or Aromashodu or perhaps Burton) isn't great on paper but it should still offer playmaking ability defenses will have to respect. If the pass protection holds up, the difference this year could be the TEs. Rudolph and Carlson should represent a greater threat to defenses than the combo of Shiancoe and Sauce did. Hopefully, it will play out that way.
The Vikes still need to upgrade their receiving corps next offseason but we all understood that they had too many needs to address everything this year. Heck, that will probably even be true next year! They have a lot of work left to do.
PurpleKoolaid wrote:
I like all the players. I even like the coaches, doesnt mean I think they are good.
Simpson is a number 2-3 WR at best. Did you watch the game? Yeah preseason and all, he doesnt look good. Plus I was hoping for a flip or 2. The gamble on Childs didnt work. We have 1 WR and hopefully one good TE that can catch, if he can ever get open or get some plays called for him. If you think Jenkins is ANYTHING close to a #2, you and I are miles apart on what real talent is. If we start with Jenkins on one side, Simpson on the other, with our usual Mustgrave TE sets, AD will be lucky to get 50 yards a game, and Ponder will be lucky to survive.
what exactly are you basing Simpson not looking good on? The one pass he had thrown his way? A little hasty, don't you think? I'm not suggesting he's a #1 WR, but he definitely has the raw talent to be one, and I think he's a legitimate #2 WR, he proved that last year. I think you are highly overrating the impact our WRs will have on Peterson as well, Simpson is better than Aroma, Jenkins and Berrian, and Peterson ran just fine last year with them starting at WR, as did Gerhart. I'd also say we have at least 2 good TEs (assuming one can stay healthy) maybe 3 (Rudolph, Carlson and Rhett), and one potentially great TE in Ruldolph
PurpleKoolaid wrote:Simpson is a number 2-3 WR at best. Did you watch the game? Yeah preseason and all, he doesnt look good.
I watched the game. I've seen Simpson play a couple regular season games, too. To be honest, I don't give a rat's #### about one drop on one freakin' pass in one preseason game. Simpson is talented. He just needs to be focused. Really focused. We'll see if that happens. If it does, I think Harvin, Simpson, Rudolph, and whoever else steps up (and hopefully someone does) will be better than what the Vikings fielded last year.
Demi wrote:He should have been getting snaps at receiver the day he was drafted. Probably even too late for that now.
It probably is. Actually, given Webb's size and speed, it's a pity that he couldn't have been developed as a receiver. The Vikings still need a big guy among their WRs.
Knoxx wrote:With Webbs speed and size could he be used at safety? I think it was last year when he threw the pick and it looked like a easy score he ran the guy down and made a great tackle. Could we have him on the wrong side of the ball like Allen was.
I don't think it is as easy as "He can tackle well, so he'd be a good safety." There is so much more to the game it would be a hard transition. Receiver, OTOH, he has played before, so it's not that big of a transition. The only time I remember the Vikes doing an "opposite" side of the team switch was when Tate was switched from receiver to CB. He did "OK" but certainly not as good as a developed corner. (The sad thing is, not including Winfield and Cook, I think Tate was a better CB than any of our current crop...
I've told people a million times not to exaggerate!
Maybe we just need to accept that Webb's a talented, athletic backup QB. He doesn't seem to have a natural position beyond that. Yes, I know he played a little WR in college and he was projected to play that position in the NFL but he was also viewed by scouts as a raw WR prospect with questionable hands (in other words, a project). The Vikes did spend some time working with him as a WR but if I remember correctly, Vikes beat reporters said he didn't show much aptitude for the position in practice.
His greatest talent seems to be open field running on broken plays. What do you do with that? Make him a returner? Use him as a screen receiver (tricky without telegraphing it)? I don't know. I think they have him in the right place. Now he needs to improve his skills as a QB.
